Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[fire starter]

very interesting ....................

 

[Bleh]

Naval Ensign of the Indian Navy (from 2001 to 2004)

Exactly, if it's not visible, they mut try something like this that can be seen:

Crest of the Indian Army

This Indian army flag is also no better with European Arming-swords on it... Two talwars (not Shamshir or Pulwar) mounted on a Indian Dhal would be more befitting.

 

[captscooby81]

DMA under CDS today announced appointments of

RAdm Krishna Swaminathan as Western Fleet Commander
RAdm Sanjay Vatsayan as Eastern Fleet Commander
RAdm V Srinivas as Flag Officer Maharastra Area (FOMA)

 

[SRao]

Just joined this very fascinating forum. A complete layman here, so please excuse any lame queries I post. Also, not sure how to start a new topic...

So as a first, I am wondering if Ind Navy can use IACs like INS Viraat as a part of a flotilla that can be used to launch fighters like Tejas? Why mothball such ships that can still run and provide service? Is the maintenance cost so high, that you are willing to live without it? A replacement will cost $billions and take several years optimistically. If the maint costs are a fraction, cannot Viraat be used as a launchpad, say positioned somewhere off Gujarat coast? Dont retrofit it and spend money- just use it as a bare-bones fighter launcher.

 

[Bhurki]

India, Russia conclude price talks for 200 Kamov copters

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/india-russia-conclude-price-talks-for-200-kamov-copters-28588

$4B for 200 Lightcopters.
Nominal ToT without any core tech.(engine/transmission)

 

[Aaj ka hero]

Is the maintenance cost so high

yes, that's the point And the main point,
Navy right now wants 65,000 ton ship.
Plus they are not getting desired funds.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Just joined this very fascinating forum. A complete layman here, so please excuse any lame queries I post. Also, not sure how to start a new topic...

So as a first, I am wondering if Ind Navy can use IACs like INS Viraat as a part of a flotilla that can be used to launch fighters like Tejas? Why mothball such ships that can still run and provide service? Is the maintenance cost so high, that you are willing to live without it? A replacement will cost $billions and take several years optimistically. If the maint costs are a fraction, cannot Viraat be used as a launchpad, say positioned somewhere off Gujarat coast? Dont retrofit it and spend money- just use it as a bare-bones fighter launcher.

It's to old rebuilding and installation of new sensor doesn't worth and navy for the most part uses aircraft as power projection and this oldiiee will suck at that because it cannot leave the coast and technically it's useless jets like su-30mki have range of 1500km so their will be a negligible difference in terms of utility.

 

[SRao]

It's to old rebuilding and installation of new sensor doesn't worth and navy for the most part uses aircraft as power projection and this oldiiee will suck at that because it cannot leave the coast and technically it's useless jets like su-30mki have range of 1500km so their will be a negligible difference in terms of utility.

I was thinking more like using it as a piece of floating airstrip, with what ever sensors etc it has. It will be a part of a flotilla that can be fitted with all kinds of defensive equipment, so it shouldnt need any other defense retrofits. For advanced su-30mki etc other IACs may be needed, but for naval Tejas (even MK1) I think Viraat should suffice. Imagine this ship and support ships parked a couple hundred Km off Karachi, with a large number of Tejas on it...

 

[Assassin 2.0]

I was thinking more like using it as a piece of floating airstrip, with what ever sensors etc it has. It will be a part of a flotilla that can be fitted with all kinds of defensive equipment, so it shouldnt need any other defense retrofits. For advanced su-30mki etc other IACs may be needed, but for naval Tejas (even MK1) I think Viraat should suffice. Imagine this ship and support ships parked a couple hundred Km off Karachi, with a large number of Tejas on it...

It's not big enough to hold large number of tejas jets.
Better to create artificial island for that process.

 

[ezsasa]

I was thinking more like using it as a piece of floating airstrip, with what ever sensors etc it has. It will be a part of a flotilla that can be fitted with all kinds of defensive equipment, so it shouldnt need any other defense retrofits. For advanced su-30mki etc other IACs may be needed, but for naval Tejas (even MK1) I think Viraat should suffice. Imagine this ship and support ships parked a couple hundred Km off Karachi, with a large number of Tejas on it...

Adding to other points being mentioned.

AC needs to be protected too for sending out planes.

If and when a full scale war does erupt with pak, aircraft carrier would be a huge prize for them. In those situations, it won’t matter where you park them.

Which means aircraft carrier has to travel with a flotilla to protect it from incoming missiles from land sea and air.

 

[SRao]

Adding to other points being mentioned.

AC needs to be protected too for sending out planes.

If and when a full scale war does erupt with pak, aircraft carrier would be a huge prize for them. In those situations, it won’t matter where you park them.

Which means aircraft carrier has to travel with a flotilla to protect it from incoming missiles from land sea and air.

Yes, a flotilla of smaller/cheaper ships/boats whatever, with enough fire power, radars etc that can be got off-the-shelf kind of. So yes, Viraat would then just be a floating island from where planes can take off and harass Pak, or strangle the sea lanes. Shouldnt be very expensive I would think. Even a new aircraft carrier would need a flotilla of ships to protect such a huge investment. Use old IACs to create movable islands on both coasts.

 

[SRao]

I think even the US is coming around to the conclusion that aircraft carriers are not really necessary- commercial ships, smaller vessels etc can be a better, cheaper solution. Lakhs of cheap drones, pinakas, dhanushes, tejas's could be cheaper and as effective as Agnis/Prithvis/Rafaels/vikramadityas. We dont need to project power beyond IOR. India also needs to think out-of-the-box, instead of throwing money on big expensive toys. IMO.

 

[Bleh]

Yes, a flotilla of smaller/cheaper ships/boats whatever, with enough fire power, radars etc that can be got off-the-shelf kind of. So yes, Viraat would then just be a floating island from where planes can take off and harass Pak, or strangle the sea lanes. Shouldnt be very expensive I would think. Even a new aircraft carrier would need a flotilla of ships to protect such a huge investment. Use old IACs to create movable islands on both coasts.

That's exactly what I made this post (& the following replies) in mind with... #8008!

 

[bhramos]

...................................................

 

[ezsasa]

Yes, a flotilla of smaller/cheaper ships/boats whatever, with enough fire power, radars etc that can be got off-the-shelf kind of. So yes, Viraat would then just be a floating island from where planes can take off and harass Pak, or strangle the sea lanes. Shouldnt be very expensive I would think. Even a new aircraft carrier would need a flotilla of ships to protect such a huge investment. Use old IACs to create movable islands on both coasts.

If the objective is to target harass pak using AirPower, there are enough airbases adjoining pak border.

And let’s not forget majority of pak is striking distance of Brahmos and Prithvi.

What advantage would a “Virat floating island” bring to the table?

In 1971 we had limitations, so the gun boats had to dragged along for Karachi attack. Those limitations do not exist anymore because of mirage , SU-30 & Brahmos.

In another couple of years, all their military bases on their eastern front will be within range of SAAW too.

And lastly there are no off the shelf flotilla we can buy, each ship costs close to 1 billion $ to make and equip.

If it is a static target, they would probably send a ballistic missile to finish it off in one go because defensive mechanisms will also be limited.

 

[bhramos]

#IndianNavy Signs MoU for offshore Data with Geological Survey of India (GSI) for "Sharing of Seabed Sediments Data, products and expertise for Naval Application in Meteorology and Oceanography" on 21 Jan 20

 

[SRao]

If the objective is to target harass pak using AirPower, there are enough airbases adjoining pak border.

And let’s not forget majority of pak is striking distance of Brahmos and Prithvi.

What advantage would a “Virat floating island” bring to the table?

In 1971 we had limitations, so the gun boats had to dragged along for Karachi attack. Those limitations do not exist anymore because of mirage , SU-30 & Brahmos.

In another couple of years, all their military bases on their eastern front will be within range of SAAW too.

And lastly there are no off the shelf flotilla we can buy, each ship costs close to 1 billion $ to make and equip.

If it is a static target, they would probably send a ballistic missile to finish it off in one go because defensive mechanisms will also be limited.

If majority of Pak is within striking distance of Brahmos and Prithvi, we dont need aircraft on the western flank.

No need for Vikramaditya if an old Viraat is of no advantage.

Also Viraat will be as static as Vikramaditya, and as much a sitting duck for a ballistic missile as the latter.

I still think that such old carriers with their ready-to-use runways, can be put to great advantage, cheaply and effectively. I would think a large flotilla of boats/ships/maybe a destroyer or two, perhaps some submarine chasers(?), just 100km off Karachi will make them think twice.

Well, this is just some armchair thinking on m part- there must be reasons to scrap Viraat.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

If majority of Pak is within striking distance of Brahmos and Prithvi, we dont need aircraft on the western flank.

No need for Vikramaditya if an old Viraat is of no advantage.

Also Viraat will be as static as Vikramaditya, and as much a sitting duck for a ballistic missile as the latter.

I still think that such old carriers with their ready-to-use runways, can be put to great advantage, cheaply and effectively. I would think a large flotilla of boats/ships/maybe a destroyer or two, perhaps some submarine chasers(?), just 100km off Karachi will make them think twice.

Well, this is just some armchair thinking on m part- there must be reasons to scrap Viraat.

Vikramaditya have very advanced sensor and all they can track and perform electronic warfare have several anti missile system have surveillance system.
It can also stay 600-700km away from Pakistan and launch jets and be always on the move it does have proper battle group which knows how to take on enemies group of boats.
Non of these advantages will be available with ins viraat.
We can build artificial island for that purpose just to launch aircraft but i guess we don't have money for that

 

[ezsasa]

If majority of Pak is within striking distance of Brahmos and Prithvi, we dont need aircraft on the western flank.

No need for Vikramaditya if an old Viraat is of no advantage.

Also Viraat will be as static as Vikramaditya, and as much a sitting duck for a ballistic missile as the latter.

I still think that such old carriers with their ready-to-use runways, can be put to great advantage, cheaply and effectively. I would think a large flotilla of boats/ships/maybe a destroyer or two, perhaps some submarine chasers(?), just 100km off Karachi will make them think twice.

Well, this is just some armchair thinking on m part- there must be reasons to scrap Viraat.

There is no wrong answer. feel free to exchange ideas and learn new things here.. cheers...

 

[sorcerer]

I think even the US is coming around to the conclusion that aircraft carriers are not really necessary- commercial ships, smaller vessels etc can be a better, cheaper solution. Lakhs of cheap drones, pinakas, dhanushes, tejas's could be cheaper and as effective as Agnis/Prithvis/Rafaels/vikramadityas. We dont need to project power beyond IOR. India also needs to think out-of-the-box, instead of throwing money on big expensive toys. IMO.

We would need them to project our blue water navy capabilities. We should also take into account that
1) We are the NET security provider for Indian Ocean and we have to stay strong on that one to keep the chinese out of our oceans. These are also used as a tool for launching humanitarian missions.
INFOGRAPHIC: Aircraft Carriers Do A Whole Lot More Than You Ever Thought
https://www.businessinsider.com/inf...rs-do-a-whole-lot-more-than-shoot-2012-6?IR=T

2) We have an upcoming Africa India Japan Maritime corridor part of Asia Africa Growth Corridor Story, where a lot of trade will happen from the rising economic power of African continents to the Asia. Well!! we are obliged to protect these trade routes.

3) With our allies we will be venturing out into more oceanic areas to protect out energy assets as well as our ocean mining assets for minerals and riches. Its probable in the future that these are the premises of future conflicts with some nations..not just pakistan or china.

Aircraft carriers with their armada can be a potent power projections that suits well with our strong diplomatic dance and economic coercion.

It will be an interesting thought if we could see that the IRAN conflict was solved cuz the Iranians know the potent destructive capacity of US carriers in the region