Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[Filtercoffee]

INS Vishal is going to be built with the UK as a support. This is not a very good situation, I think its still in talks but the choice is not a very good one. We have the US and Russia as direct partners and this choice might just chip away good will on all sides. I hope for the ideal partner to make the ship or type as the American Navy has a much better place due to them having 11 carriers and a whole new class coming into induction. Russia due to INS Vikramaditya and just the general work environment.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

The talk of IN adopting HMS elizabeth design is pure hogwash. It appeared in one british newspaper and all the Indian channels have picked it up. Earlier even Russia offered its storm aircraft carrier design which is 100k ton and USA offering EMALS. All that turned out to be nothing. IN is going to design it based on the experience of designing IAC 1.
The fact of the matter is IN is designing Iac 2 for some time and work on it will begin it in 3-4 years after iac 1 heads to trials. There was a delay for some time as it was not decided whether to go for conventional or nuclear. Finally it is decided to go for conventional catobar design of 65k ton class. The building of the ship will take about 8-10 years.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

The talk of IN adopting HMS elizabeth design is pure hogwash. It appeared in one british newspaper and all the Indian channels have picked it up. Earlier even Russia offered its storm aircraft carrier design which is 100k ton and USA offering EMALS. All that turned out to be nothing. IN is going to design it based on the experience of designing IAC 1.
The fact of the matter is IN is designing Iac 2 for some time and work on it will begin it in 3-4 years after iac 1 heads to trials. There was a delay for some time as it was not decided whether to go for conventional or nuclear. Finally it is decided to go for conventional catobar design of 65k ton class. The building of the ship will take about 8-10 years.

I agree. Suddenly getting British carrier after India has designed is not meaningful. British design also means that some parts will have to be British made as getting them ready in time will be difficult for India. All this for no proper advantage is meaningless

IAC-2 has to start immediately after IAC-1 is completed as the shipyard has workers who need to be kept employed. If the IAC2 is delayed by 3-4 years, the workers will have to find a few other ships to build in the meantime which can complicate things. The time to make the conventional carrier may be 7-8 years if we go by the time taken by UK. Since India has indigenised several main parts for IAC1, making IAC2 should be relatively quicker. IAC-1 was mainly delayed due to delay in development of indigenous parts

 

[ezsasa]

I agree. Suddenly getting British carrier after India has designed is not meaningful. British design also means that some parts will have to be British made as getting them ready in time will be difficult for India. All this for no proper advantage is meaningless

IAC-2 has to start immediately after IAC-1 is completed as the shipyard has workers who need to be kept employed. If the IAC2 is delayed by 3-4 years, the workers will have to find a few other ships to build in the meantime which can complicate things. The time to make the conventional carrier may be 7-8 years if we go by the time taken by UK. Since India has indigenised several main parts for IAC1, making IAC2 should be relatively quicker. IAC-1 was mainly delayed due to delay in development of indigenous parts

CSL has 12000 crore + new 8 ASW ships order. They have sufficient orders both in civilian and defence sectors to keep people employed.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

Another shipyard which can deliver IAC2 is Pipayav in gujart which is recently acquired by Relaince I beleive. It has the capacity to build ships having over 100k ton. Also private sector will have a faster delivery timeline compared to government shipyard. Example is L&T which is delivering OPV to ICG at a fast rate. The carrier construction time will reduce to at least 5-6 years compared to 8-10 years of CSL.

 

[laughingbuddha]

That is highly doubtful. The navy encashed their bank guarantee because they couldn't deliver even the first NOPV. IAC2 is definitely out of the question for Reliance Naval/Pipapav.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

CSL has 12000 crore + new 8 ASW ships order. They have sufficient orders both in civilian and defence sectors to keep people employed.

CSL has floating dry dock which can carry large ships of aircraft carrier size. That will remain empty. Also, the ASW ships are small ships and only for shallow waters. This will not be enough. CSL not only makes carrier but other ships simultaenously and hence it has to be given much more orders. It is important to make the carrier immediately after commissioning IAC-1.

Another shipyard which can deliver IAC2 is Pipayav in gujart which is recently acquired by Relaince I beleive. It has the capacity to build ships having over 100k ton. Also private sector will have a faster delivery timeline compared to government shipyard. Example is L&T which is delivering OPV to ICG at a fast rate. The carrier construction time will reduce to at least 5-6 years compared to 8-10 years of CSL.

Pipavav is in bad financial condition.It is about to go bankrupt. It does not have the required skillset to make carriers. Moreover, it has been shown in recent ASW ship bidding that PSU quotes much lower prices in manufacturing than private shipyards. The GRSE & CSL won as they were more competitive than others like L&T.

The delays does not happen because of shipyard. It happens because of the parts supply not being ready. Shipyards only asseble and integrate the parts, not make them. So, the part delay can't be avoided by getting private shipyards. The part delays can be avoided only by indigenisation so that the supply chain is in Indian control. With the indigenisation seen in IAC1 and further indigenisation expected in IAC-2 means that the delays of parts supply will be minimal and hence construction sped up. Conventional carriers are faster to build than nuclear ones and hence IAC-2 being conventional actually helps in speeding it up

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

That is highly doubtful. The navy encashed their bank guarantee because they couldn't deliver even the first NOPV. IAC2 is definitely out of the question for Reliance Naval/Pipapav.

The problem is not pipayav shipyard but the real problem is Anil Ambani. Many of his companies are close to bankruptcy. This despite the fact that he had inherited from his father the more profitable companies than his brother. Some of them is being bailed out by his big brother.

As far as pipayav goes they had a tie-up with babcock (UK) way back in 2011 regarding aircraft carrier building.

https://www.thehindubusinessline.co...ircraft-carriers-for-navy/article23048390.ece

Hence I foresee a situation where ANil ambani will sell Pipayav to some other company or may be his big brother takes over.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

CSL had also asked IN to give 2-3 more orders for IAC1 based designed ships so as to not remain idle till the time IAC-2 come to CSL(if it will).

 

[lcafanboy]

Indian Navy to get 10 Ka-31 helicopters

07 MAY 2019

The Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) headed by Defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman has recently approved the Rs 3,600 crore ($5,198,400,000) proposal to buy 10 Kamov-31 AEW Helicopters from Russia for the Indian Navy.

Russian Navy Kamov Ka-31

The Kamov Ka-31 (NATO reporting name 'Helix') is a military helicopter developed for the Soviet Navy and currently in service in Russia, China and India in the naval airborne early warning and control role.

These helicopters are critical for the Indian Navy as they will help in increasing the radar coverage and will act as an extra set of eyes. The radars onboard the ships have a limited ‘horizon’, which are not able to track low-flying targets, in particular, anti-ship missiles. In 1999, the Indian Navy had ordered the Ka-31 AEW helicopters and they were deployed on board the INS Viraat aircraft carrier and other ships. There have been follow-on orders and so far there are around 14 Ka-31 helicopters in service of the Indian Navy.

These rotorcraft will join INS Vikrant, India’s first indigenous aircraft carrier that is currently under construction.

http://airrecognition.com/index.php...-indian-navy-to-get-10-ka-31-helicopters.html

 

[captscooby81]

Pics from #EXVARUNA Day 1

Can someone clarify me which aircraft is this on CDG deck

 

[kurup]

Pics from #EXVARUNA Day 1

View attachment 34827 View attachment 34828 View attachment 34829 View attachment 34830 Can someone clarify me which aircraft is this on CDG deck

Super Étendard

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault-Breguet_Super_Étendard

 

[Snowcat]

Pics from #EXVARUNA Day 1

View attachment 34827 View attachment 34828 View attachment 34829 View attachment 34830 Can someone clarify me which aircraft is this on CDG deck

The last photo is surely not from Varuna exercise. Those jets have retired since then.

 

[Armand2REP]

The last photo is surely not from Varuna exercise. Those jets have retired since then.

They are from a Varuna exercise... like 10 years ago.

 

[Snowcat]

They are from a Varuna exercise... like 10 years ago.

I was talking about the ongoing one.

 

[aarav]

भा नौ पो विशाखापट्नम।

 

[DG7867]

The talk of IN adopting HMS elizabeth design is pure hogwash. It appeared in one british newspaper and all the Indian channels have picked it up. Earlier even Russia offered its storm aircraft carrier design which is 100k ton and USA offering EMALS. All that turned out to be nothing. IN is going to design it based on the experience of designing IAC 1.
The fact of the matter is IN is designing Iac 2 for some time and work on it will begin it in 3-4 years after iac 1 heads to trials. There was a delay for some time as it was not decided whether to go for conventional or nuclear. Finally it is decided to go for conventional catobar design of 65k ton class. The building of the ship will take about 8-10 years.

Agree, as far as I know, hms Elizabeth class is stobar design, and IN has made it clear on many occasions that iac2 will be catobar.. stupidity of our media seems to know no bounds..

 

[Armand2REP]

I was talking about the ongoing one.

Your pictures aren't not from the current Varuna, they are from Varuna 2011 when the CdG still operated Super Etendards.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Agree, as far as I know, hms Elizabeth class is stobar design, and IN has made it clear on many occasions that iac2 will be catobar.. stupidity of our media seems to know no bounds..

It is STOBAR without ski-jump. Changing design will take years as each part must be sketched and designed properly with accurate 3D dimensions. That will be a hell of a task and time consuming

 

[gryphus-scarface]

It is STOBAR without ski-jump. Changing design will take years as each part must be sketched and designed properly with accurate 3D dimensions. That will be a hell of a task and time consuming

We have had CAD software for a long time now. There is no need to hand sketch anything. 3D dimensions can be handled by the software. The important part is figuring out how to fit a Catapult on the QE design. The ship was supposedly designed with the F-35 in mind, so unless MWF can lift off with reasonable payload from that design, we need a catapult. And for the catapult we need to do quite a bit of redesigning.