Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[cobra commando]

India, US kick off talks on cooperation in construction of aircraft carriers

 

[salute]

That puts it in the 20000t. category and capable of operating only jump jets like the sea harriers (obsolete) or F-35Bs (out of reach). One might consider the LPH (Landing Platform Helicopter) / Multi role support vessel programme as the aircraft carrier they are talking about. The only one that would qualify for both roles is the Juan Carlos I. However the Indian Navy has reportedly asked for a version without the ski jump to limit the total length of the vessel. Also it has put forth a requirement of 4 such vessels. I am confused.

lol 20k tonnes thats even smaller than 4 lhd's india plans to bulid,

what the point in 20k tonnes ???

india needs 5 carrier bg just for defence in indian ocean,

for offence may be more carriers.

 

[Adioz]

lol 20k tonnes thats even smaller than 4 lhd's india plans to bulid,

what the point in 20k tonnes ???

Exactly. Therefore I posted the main problem: which jet to operate?

That puts it in the 20000t. category and capable of operating only jump jets like the sea harriers (obsolete) or F-35Bs (out of reach).

india needs 5 carrier bg just for defence in indian ocean,

Not 5 carrier CVBGs. It needs 5 carriers (3 operational, 2 refit and reserve).

for offence may be more carriers.

Who needs to go on offense? Our navy should be on the defensive against China.
P.S.: I am assuming offense involves Indian Naval Deployment in South China sea and the defence involves Indian navy deployment and maneuver upto Malacca straits.

 

[Adioz]

If Indian navy actually plans to have 5 aircraft carriers and 4 Landing Platform Helicopters (LPH), do they plan to deploy Amphibious Ready Groups (ARG) and CVBGs separately? (like the U.S.N.)
If so, how many ARGs do they plan to deploy?

Personally I would like to see LPHs as an integral part of CVBGs. Individual ARGs would have poor air cover as we do not have LHAs (Landing Helicopter Assault) like the U.S.N.

 

[Adioz]

India, US kick off talks on cooperation in construction of aircraft carriers

I believe EMALS is not really an option as it would require a much powerful reactor and I am not sure if U.S. would help us with that.
But steam catapults should be installed, if not EMALS, as I believe China can not field such technology, thus giving us a decisive edge (in the form of, maybe, a DRDO version of the E-2 Hawkeye AEW&Cs).

I read that the current equipment on Gerald R.Ford class carriers will be satisfied with only one of the two nuclear reactors that each ship has. This means it will have a capability to install railguns or LASER CIWS in the future as an entire reactor is lying unused. This is scary.

 

[salute]

Who needs to go on offense? Our navy should be on the defensive against China.
P.S.: I am assuming offense involves Indian Naval Deployment in South China sea and the defence involves Indian navy deployment and maneuver upto Malacca straits.

not against china lol,
even usn cannot go offensive against china,
but if indian forces ever need or require to go overseas or to stationed somewhere at the edge of indian ocean or far from indian ocean,

so 3 for defence and other 2 always gonna be refit,
and whats meaning of refit here exactly ??? non availability of spare parts.

 

[Adioz]

so 3 for defence and other 2 always gonna be refit,
and whats meaning of refit here exactly ??? non availability of spare parts.

No. LOL.
Its just that there is no sense in operating 5 CVBGs in peacetime simultaneously. However when at war, all assets at the country's disposal will be used.
In peacetime, operating all vessels simultaneously only drives up the defence budget unnecessarily.
Besides, it takes a lot of time for a ship to undergo mid-life upgrades and maintenance.

 

[SajeevJino]

HSL likely to get high-value orders

With the Ministry of Defence deciding to bail out cash-strapped Hindustan Shipyard Limited, the largest yard on the East Coast is expected to have orders worth over Rs.25,000 crore by year-end.

Two Strategic Operations Vehicles (mini submarines) worth Rs.6,000 crore, two Landing Platform Docks, each costing Rs.4,000 crore, and five Fleet Support Ships/Tankers valued at Rs.10,000 crore are at various stages of consideration.

“Once we get the awards, it will make the yard into a beehive of activity helping us overcome the worst-ever financial problems,” HSL CMD Rear Admiral N.K. Mishra told The Hindu on Sunday.

The HSL has already formed a consortium with MIDHANI and BHEL to strengthen its claim for construction of six futuristic submarines.

The expected orders will help the company overcome the worst-ever financial problems

N.K. Mishra

CMD of HSL

http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...ighvalue-orders/article7552822.ece?ref=tpnews

 

[SajeevJino]

Two Strategic Operations Vehicles (mini submarines) worth Rs.6,000 crore, two Landing Platform Docks, each costing Rs.4,000 crore, and five Fleet Support Ships/Tankers valued at Rs.10,000 crore are at various stages of consideration.

Mini Subs - each costs $500 million - Total $1 billion
LPD -each costs $620 million - Total $1.2 billion
Fleet Tanker-each costs $320 million - Total $1.6 billion

I'm I clear HSL going to get the big amount in coming days. to constructing all these Ships in HSL onlee, No private Shipyards,

What happens to the Amabni's Dokdo dream

 

[warrior monk]

What is the status of the indigenous advanced light towed array sonar? Are their any future plans to integrate the BEL Nagan on to some Indian naval vessels?

NPOL ( Naval Physical & Oceanographic Laboratory ) has developed the advanced light towed array sonar (ALTAS) and is currently on tech trials , Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) will be the systems integrator . Hopefully it will be ready by 2016 .

 

[Anikastha]

@SajeevJino @cobra commando @bengalraider @Bheeshma @blueblood @jackprince
Sir, Why don't we crap thos sea harriers and get some twin engine jet (mig-29) or few f-18 hornet?
Why india reject f-18 hornet..i think its an advanced bird.Can mig-29k counter chinese navy's "sea sharks'?

 

[blueblood]

@SREEKAR, Harriers will be retired along with INS Viraat (R22) in the late 2010s when the very first Vikrant class will enter service.

India rejected F-18 SH because only two could be shortlisted for MMRCA and F-18 wasn't one of them.

 

[bengalraider]

@SajeevJino @cobra commando @bengalraider @Bheeshma @blueblood @jackprince
Sir, Why don't we crap thos sea harriers and get some twin engine jet (mig-29) or few f-18 hornet?
Why india reject f-18 hornet..i think its an advanced bird.Can mig-29k counter chinese navy's "sea sharks'?

We retain the harriers because we need them to form the air wing for the INS VIRAAT. That old Hermes class warrior cannot support MIG-29s.
The F-18 was primarily rejected because it would come with American end use agreements that were unacceptable to us.
The MIG-29 in the hands of capable airmen is more than capable of countering legacy SU-33 platforms, the Chinese sharks are a development of that platform.

 

[Bheeshma]

The L&T universal launcher can launch Brahmos, Klub and other AShM but not SAM's. Other than US no one has universal launchers for both.

 

[Bheeshma]

@SajeevJino @cobra commando @bengalraider @Bheeshma @blueblood @jackprince
Sir, Why don't we crap thos sea harriers and get some twin engine jet (mig-29) or few f-18 hornet?
Why india reject f-18 hornet..i think its an advanced bird.Can mig-29k counter chinese navy's "sea sharks'?

F-18 needs catapult to take off. And yes Mig-29k is more than a match for it. F-18 E/F are big planes and will not take off from Vikram or Vikrant.

 

[Anikastha]

Guys , Government of andhra pradesh gave No Objection Certificate ( NOC) to Eastern Naval Command to re-built british era air strip at bobili ( badangi)...I don't understand why navy has chose that air strip, because NH-5 passes through main runway of that strip LOL. ENC cheif said ..it will be mojar air base of new fighter jets ( mig29k) and P-8I and few training uniits ..It will take 2, 000 crores for it.
https://www.google.co.in/maps/place...2!3m1!1s0x3a3b907ec129c187:0xa6c91c3e740e27ab
Check this.^^^^ satelite view.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...for-Badangi-airstrip/articleshow/45368735.cms
Article from TOI^^^^
@gadeshi @pmaitra @bengalraider

 

[ezsasa]

On India's West Coast, INS Vajrakosh, the Largest Naval Base East of the Suez Canal

KARWAR: Away from public glare and pomp, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar on Wednesday commissioned INS Vajrakosh, a naval station near Karwar in Karnataka. Together with INS Kadamba, 20 km, away, it is now the world's largest naval base east of the Suez Canal. Spread out over 1000 acres, the new naval base would be the home base for a bulk of the Indian Navy's strength on the western coast.

Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar at the commissioning of INS Vajrakosh, with Navy chief Admiral Robin Dhowan (right) and Vice Admiral SPS Cheema, Flag Officer Commanding in Chief of the Western Naval Command (left).

Indian Naval Station Vajrakosh - which loosely translates to 'Thunder Chest' - was constructed as the second phase of Project Seabird, which was initiated by the Centre in 1985. INS Kadamba had been commissioned earlier. INS Vajrakosh alone is spread out over 600 acres.

At the new naval base, The Indian Navy will be positioning two aircraft carriers - INS Vikramaditya and the indigenously built INS Vikrant - over 20 submarines in underground pens and 47 warships. Besides this, it will also have a Naval air station that will base the Boeing P-8i, an advanced maritime surveillance aircraft that is known as 'Poseidon'. The facility will also feature a helicopter base.

File picture of the advanced Boeing P-8I Poseidon surveillance aircraft, which will be based in Karwar.

As of now, the INS Vikramaditya and over 30 ships are being docked at the Karwar naval base. "The underground pens for the submarines will give additional stealth to the fleet. Unlike Bombay, where submarines are docked in the open and easily spotted by satellites, docking submarines inside pens will make invisible to prying eyes," a senior Naval officer said.


"Apart from the Naval Air Station, INS Vajrakosh will be the biggest missiles, ammunition and spares dump on the Western Sea Board. It will be base that will equip all warships and airplanes," a senior Naval officer who was at the commissioning ceremony told NDTV.

Defence Minister Manohar Parrkiar at the commissioning of INS Vajrakosh.

The two installations will together have a 6,500 ton ship lift. "We now have the capability to move all our major warships - except the aircraft carriers - to the dry docks for repairs," the officers said. It will also have a state of the art naval dock yard.

The Karwar base will cost the Indian exchequer Rs. 25000 crore. When it had been conceived in 1985, the criteria had been to relocate the fleet away from the reach of Pakistani fighters. In the age of mid-air re-fullers, that is no longer the case. Enemy fighters can very well reach the new base. Nonetheless, the Karwar Base - an exclusive Naval harbour - will be prove to be major advantage for the Navy. The Bombay, Cochin Harbours - the two major Naval stations in the Western Sea Board - are over-crowded with commercial traffic. "It often takes hours to move in and out of these harbours. From Karwar, we deploy simultaneously in a very short time," a senior official said.

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/now-...est-naval-base-east-of-the-suez-canal-1215952

 

[salute]

On India's West Coast, INS Vajrakosh, the Largest Naval Base East of the Suez Canal

KARWAR: Away from public glare and pomp, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar on Wednesday commissioned INS Vajrakosh, a naval station near Karwar in Karnataka. Together with INS Kadamba, 20 km, away, it is now the world's largest naval base east of the Suez Canal. Spread out over 1000 acres, the new naval base would be the home base for a bulk of the Indian Navy's strength on the western coast.

Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar at the commissioning of INS Vajrakosh, with Navy chief Admiral Robin Dhowan (right) and Vice Admiral SPS Cheema, Flag Officer Commanding in Chief of the Western Naval Command (left).

Indian Naval Station Vajrakosh - which loosely translates to 'Thunder Chest' - was constructed as the second phase of Project Seabird, which was initiated by the Centre in 1985. INS Kadamba had been commissioned earlier. INS Vajrakosh alone is spread out over 600 acres.

At the new naval base, The Indian Navy will be positioning two aircraft carriers - INS Vikramaditya and the indigenously built INS Vikrant - over 20 submarines in underground pens and 47 warships. Besides this, it will also have a Naval air station that will base the Boeing P-8i, an advanced maritime surveillance aircraft that is known as 'Poseidon'. The facility will also feature a helicopter base.

File picture of the advanced Boeing P-8I Poseidon surveillance aircraft, which will be based in Karwar.

As of now, the INS Vikramaditya and over 30 ships are being docked at the Karwar naval base. "The underground pens for the submarines will give additional stealth to the fleet. Unlike Bombay, where submarines are docked in the open and easily spotted by satellites, docking submarines inside pens will make invisible to prying eyes," a senior Naval officer said.


"Apart from the Naval Air Station, INS Vajrakosh will be the biggest missiles, ammunition and spares dump on the Western Sea Board. It will be base that will equip all warships and airplanes," a senior Naval officer who was at the commissioning ceremony told NDTV.

Defence Minister Manohar Parrkiar at the commissioning of INS Vajrakosh.

The two installations will together have a 6,500 ton ship lift. "We now have the capability to move all our major warships - except the aircraft carriers - to the dry docks for repairs," the officers said. It will also have a state of the art naval dock yard.

The Karwar base will cost the Indian exchequer Rs. 25000 crore. When it had been conceived in 1985, the criteria had been to relocate the fleet away from the reach of Pakistani fighters. In the age of mid-air re-fullers, that is no longer the case. Enemy fighters can very well reach the new base. Nonetheless, the Karwar Base - an exclusive Naval harbour - will be prove to be major advantage for the Navy. The Bombay, Cochin Harbours - the two major Naval stations in the Western Sea Board - are over-crowded with commercial traffic. "It often takes hours to move in and out of these harbours. From Karwar, we deploy simultaneously in a very short time," a senior official said.

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/now-...est-naval-base-east-of-the-suez-canal-1215952

wow,
2 aircraft carriers,20 submarines,more than 40 ships,p8-poseidon base and helicopter base.

 

[sorcerer]

Anti-Submarine Operations in the Indian Ocean

As India and Australia prepare to embark on their first-ever bilateral naval interaction in the Bay of Bengal this month, reports suggest the exercises will focus on anti-submarine warfare (ASW). This is being seen as evidence of a growing regional consensus on the threat posed by Chinese undersea operations in the Asian littorals. Australia is reported to be sending a Lockheed Martin’s P-3 anti-submarine reconnaissance aircraft, a Collins-class submarine, and ASW frigates, while India will be deploying a P-8 long-range anti-submarine aircraft, along with other surface assets.

Over the past two years, China’s submarine deployments in the Indian Ocean have been a source of worry for Indian analysts. Since May this year, when a Chinese Yuan-class submarine visited Karachi, there has been growing unease in New Delhi over the possibility of greater Chinese submarine presence in India’s maritime neighborhood. Indian analysts say the sudden rise in submarine visits suggests a larger game-plan for the expansion of the PLA-N’s operational footprint in the Indian Ocean. In the garb of anti-piracy operations, Chinese submarines have been performing specific stand-alone missions – a process, China skeptics contend, meant to lay the groundwork for a rotating but permanent deployment in the Indian Ocean Region (IOR).

The pattern of recent PLA-N undersea deployments reveals a strategy to carve out controlled spaces in the Indian Ocean. Observers point to a Chinese Song-class visit to Colombo port in October last year, when the submarine docked at a harbor built and administered by a Chinese construction company. This was a violation of existing protocols which mandate that a foreign naval vessel dock in Sri Lanka Port Authority (SLPA) berths. Yet local authorities explained the anomaly by citing operational exigencies, almost as if they were under compulsion to accommodate Chinese submarines at an exclusive facility. At Karachi too, the PLA-N pulled of a clandestine one-week deployment that was revealed in the media weeks after it was completed.

Significantly, Chinese maritime planners have been raising the complexity of the undersea missions. The Yuan-class deployment at Karachi signaled an improvement over the visit to Colombo, where the Song-class submarine needed the reassuring presence of a support vessel. Employing the Yuan-335-class – equipped with air-independent propulsion (AIP) and increased under-sea endurance – in latter missions suggests Beijing is now preparing to upgrade its submarine operations in the Indian Ocean. Accordingly, the PLA-N has been fine-tuning its standard operating procedures, gaining critical undersea experience, as well as securing vital hydrological and bathymetric data to maintain a sustained presence in the IOR.

For some, the PLA-N’s emphasis on undersea operations in the IOR has been surprising, given that China has no territorial claims in the region. A closer examination of the recent deployments, however, makes the underlying logic clear. The evolving nature of contemporary maritime operations – where littoral-dominance is deemed an operational imperative – makes it incumbent on Beijing to devise a strategy that secures access to contested spaces. The Chinese navy seems to have modeled its template of operations in the IOR on the U.S. Navy’s maritime doctrine that predicates naval missions on “freedom of movement and maneuver” in the high seas. The recalibration of the China’s essential maritime posture towards greater “open-seas” presence is outlined in Beijing’s new defense white paper on “maritime strategy.”

In the PLA-N’s new framework of operations, submarines are likely to play an increasingly vital role. Apart from defending tactical maritime space and gathering of critical intelligence, China’s submarines could evade detection and target Indian submarines in the Indian Ocean. More crucially, their presence could render India’s interdiction capabilities in the IOR redundant. Submerged in the depths of the Indian Ocean, PLA-N subs could evade comprehensive surveillance measures by India, facilitating hostile attacks on Indian shores. To drive home the point, Beijing has been deploying nuclear submarines (SSNs) to the Indian Ocean, presumably to highlight growing Chinese confidence in maintaining a standing presence in the Indian Ocean Region, and India’s inability to defend its strategic littorals.

The defining shift in Chinese maritime strategy to a new “littoral” framework is best illustrated by the growing importance of the Yuan-class submarine in the PLA-N’s overseas operations. As a small, quiet, slow-moving anti-surface warfare platform, the Yuan plays a key role in littoral settings. Not only is it capable of traditional sub-surface killer (SSK) mission roles such as intelligence-gathering and coastal defense, its innovative design gives it an anti-ship cruise missile (ASCM) and land attack capability – an attribute deemed critical for the projection of combat power.

From an Indian perspective, it is the evolving China-Pakistan nexus that raises the most anxiety. Since February 2013, when a Chinese company took-over management of the Gwadar port, Pakistan’s naval engagement with China has grown significantly. This includes regular bilateral and multilateral exercises, including growing PLA-N presence in the “Aman” series of exercises in the Western Indian Ocean. China has also been assisting Pakistan with its naval modernization program, including a proposed sale of eight Yuan-class submarines, four improved F-22P frigates, and six Type-022 Houbei stealth catamaran missile boats. These deals, Indian analysts point out, have the potential to wreak the sub-continent’s maritime balance.

More importantly for India, Pakistan’s naval partnership with China could help extend the PLA-N’s operational reach beyond East Asia into what China calls the “far-seas.” Beyond facilitating regular missions – such as protecting the sea lines of communications, providing humanitarian assistance and disaster relief, and conducting naval diplomacy – the Pakistan navy could provide vital assistance to the PLA-N in projecting hard-power in the South Asian littorals. The rise in China’s near-coast submarine operations in the Indian Ocean, as well as a growing deployment of amphibious landing ships, certainly points to a propensity for greater maritime posturing in the IOR.

India’s forthcoming naval interactions are, therefore, likely to focus on contingencies arising from greater Chinese naval presence in the Asian littorals. If media reports are to be believed, the India-U.S. Malabar naval exercises in the Bay of Bengal later this month will move beyond the traditional focus of humanitarian assistance and disaster relief operations to also include anti-air and anti-submarine warfare operations. New Delhi has also dropped its customary insistence for a bilateral template of operations in the Indian Ocean and extended an invitation to the Japanese navy to participate in the exercises. Meanwhile, Canberra has expressed its willingness to partner India, Japan and the U.S. in “quadrilateral” exchanges that emphasize a “rules-based” maritime order in the Asia-Pacific.

As India and Australia reorient their maritime postures to cater to the new realities, there is a shared realization that strategic stability in maritime Asia can no longer be taken for granted. Both sides remain acutely aware that the preservation of maritime good order will require greater collective efforts by regional navies. The forthcoming exercises need to be seen as part of a broader regional attempt to preserve the balance of maritime power in the wider Indo-Pacific region.

Abhijit Singh is a research scholar at the Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses and looks at Maritime Security in the Indian Ocean. He is co-author of the book Indian Ocean Challenges – A Quest for Cooperative Solutions.

http://thediplomat.com/2015/09/anti-submarine-operations-in-the-indian-ocean/

 

[alphacentury]

From Iran to Saudi Arabia and Israel, Indian Navy pulls off visits to 40 nations

Source: http://**********/threads/increasing-indian-navy-footprint.397731/#ixzz3lpAmlyBJ

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...-40-nations/articleshow/48963735.cms?from=mdr