Indian Human Spaceflight Program (HSP)

[CrYsIs]

Buzz off. Manned spaceflight has advantages. Google them. Not going to spoon feed you. And man does not intend to go on Moon for selfies anymore. Its for Helium 3.
Come out of the WW II era @Vijyes . I am not going to entertain your "we don't need Science, we need World War 3". BS. I cannot take a guy who says that PRC is not India's enemy seriously. You know what is a waste of resources? 10,000 fighters like in WWII that you want IAF to have, that is wastage.

Manned program is not a waste but should not be an immediate priority for us.Helium 3 mining and using it as a fuel is not technically or financially feasible as of now.

 

[CrYsIs]

Why would you do it again once it had already been done by US. There was no benefit in becoming the SECOND people to reach moon.
Even while the Apollo program was going on, the American population's interest died off rapidly in it after the first landing.
The biggest thing is the money they had spent. In 2018 it will be around $145-150 BILLION. it is much much more cheaper to send probes and rover to Moon then to send Humans. Again the Probes and rover can do more science there then the humans.
Consider in the fact Human needs involved. Psychology, Ration, rest they need.

The issue is that even the 50-60's era America had a better living condition than what India has now.

Our country continues to face major issues that needs to be addressed urgently.In the light of this fact,spending 6-7 billion on a manned mission would be nothing but a complete waste of money.

But I am not against space technology,i just want to convey is that the government should spend it's resources on the technology which directly benefits the population eg like INSAT,IRS,EDUSAT.

A manned mission now will get us nothing more than a place in encyclopedia.

 

[Kshithij]

The issue is that even the 50-60's era America had a better living condition than what India has now.

Our country continues to face major issues that needs to be addressed urgently.In the light of this fact,spending 6-7 billion on a manned mission would be nothing but a complete waste of money.

But I am not against space technology,i just want to convey is that the government should spend it's resources on the technology which directly benefits the population eg like INSAT,IRS,EDUSAT.

A manned mission now will get us nothing more than a place in encyclopedia.

USA had a better living conditions in 1950-60 as the population was lower and most if them lived self sufficient lives. Today, many Americans are homeless and dependent on capitalist due to heavy industrial growth and mass production. The population increase and resource depletion has also caused lowering of USA lifestyle.

Keeping that in mind, India too can never have the standards of USA as the population is high and resource is low.

But, I agree with you that the space agency must focus mainly on development of infrastructure rather than gimmicks

 

[Heat]

Have we not learned from the mistakes of our ancestors ?

Our civilization was one of the first sea faring civilization. Our boats and ships used to trade throughout all major ports of the world.

Yet , our ancestors never used that system to setup large scale colonies abroad.
Why ?? Because they thought that it was not worth it.

If somebody would have suggested the idea of colonies , people would have said that there is no need of a colony as they could already grow/produce everything on the Indian subcontinent and it would divert resources needed in mainland to far away colonies to support them in initial days.

What was the result ?
The extensive trade system developed and cherished by our ancestors was totally destroyed , plunging the population to such poverty levels that was never seen in the entire history subcontinent.

That too done by a much inferior enemy , the brits.
The naval tech developed by the brits to support its colonies allowed it to totally dominate Bharat.


People , who today are terming manned space flight as gimmicks are repeating the same mistake done by their ancestors.

Space is the final frontier and developing interplanetary colonies and further developing the means to sustain and defend it should be our civilizational goal.

 

[SKC]

USA had a better living conditions in 1950-60 as the population was lower and most if them lived self sufficient lives. Today, many Americans are homeless and dependent on capitalist due to heavy industrial growth and mass production. The population increase and resource depletion has also caused lowering of USA lifestyle.

Keeping that in mind, India too can never have the standards of USA as the population is high and resource is low.

But, I agree with you that the space agency must focus mainly on development of infrastructure rather than gimmicks

We are not going for moon landing or mars landing directly. Current project will take us in the space only not to moon. And this will not be done next year or in 2020. It is going to take time. So we are not wasting anything in developing human spaceflight tech.

Sent from my LS-5201 using Tapatalk

 

[roma]

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...till-a-long-way-away/articleshow/64897407.cms

so i suppose Japan and then euro space agency will beat us to manned space flight

hah i suppose we just dont have the money , nor the priority nor the focus ....so japan and ESA will get ahead of us

 

[Kshithij]

Have we not learned from the mistakes of our ancestors ?

Our civilization was one of the first sea faring civilization. Our boats and ships used to trade throughout all major ports of the world.

Yet , our ancestors never used that system to setup large scale colonies abroad.
Why ?? Because they thought that it was not worth it.

If somebody would have suggested the idea of colonies , people would have said that there is no need of a colony as they could already grow/produce everything on the Indian subcontinent and it would divert resources needed in mainland to far away colonies to support them in initial days.

What was the result ?
The extensive trade system developed and cherished by our ancestors was totally destroyed , plunging the population to such poverty levels that was never seen in the entire history subcontinent.

That too done by a much inferior enemy , the brits.
The naval tech developed by the brits to support its colonies allowed it to totally dominate Bharat.


People , who today are terming manned space flight as gimmicks are repeating the same mistake done by their ancestors.

Space is the final frontier and developing interplanetary colonies and further developing the means to sustain and defend it should be our civilizational goal.

Our ancient civilisation was the biggest civilisation. It covered Europe to South East asia and even had presence in Americas. The system if 4 estate of europe,swastika of germany, greek civilisation having similarity with Persian and indian civilisation are not coincidence. There was no need to colonise any place at all (except africa).

Also, until one is able to develop technology to travel without need for expendable fuel, interplanetary travel is just a myth. So, no need to think that far

 

[CrYsIs]

Space is the final frontier and developing interplanetary colonies and further developing the means to sustain and defend it should be our civilizational goal.

First we have to address our terrestrial needs,only then can we dream about the interstellar.

While sending people to distant planets is a thing of the distant future,sending humans to space as of now is of little economic value because of advancement in automation,machines can do much more than man and that too with much lesser costs.

India's social issues are severe even by developing country standards and it has to be addressed before we think of any prestige oriented mission of little economic value.

 

[kunal1123]

idrw.org
‘Hybrid rocket tech in future’ – Indian Defence Research Wing
2-3 minutes
SOURCE: THE HINDU

Future Indian space missions, such as a distant human flight, and returnable and reusable launch vehicles, will draw heavily from aircraft technologies, Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) Chairman K.Sivan has said.

‘A healthy marriage’ Calling it a healthy marriage of complex rocket science and artful aircraft technologies, he said the space agency was looking at the prospect of winged space planes that mix rocket science with plane technology, perhaps after a decade.

Such a hybrid scene has already opened in a small way with the May 2016 test flight of bringing back a small experimental winged space vehicle. Dr. Sivan, who is also Secretary, Department of Space, was delivering the annual Air Chief Marshal L.M. Katre Memorial Lecture organised by the Air Force Association, Karnataka.

While American launch agency SpaceX has retrieved the first stage of its rocket, Dr. Sivan said ISRO would like to go beyond this and attempt getting back the second stage also, in the true national spirit of thrift. Such a concept would need space planes. For this, ISRO would tap the expertise of aeronautical engineers and the Indian Air Force.

‘Dream proposal’

Dr. Sivan later said the agency is routinely updating a 2004 proposal for an aspirational human spaceflight programme (HSP). He, however, played it down to say that right now “[an HSP] is still our dream proposal which, I think, has to happen. India should not be left behind.”

About technologies for a potential manned mission, he said a first draft of the HSP may be ready in a few weeks time. “We keep on making such new proposals, this [the HSP] is there every time in our plans. Right now, we are refining our document of 2004 and will sharpen it further,” he said.

He clarified that an HSP is not even before the Space Commission, it is not approved and is distant, that any thoughts and technologies about it were still evolving, and ISRO would talk to supporting agencies only when it took a specific form.

 

[Heat]

Our ancient civilisation was the biggest civilisation. It covered Europe to South East asia and even had presence in Americas. The system if 4 estate of europe,swastika of germany, greek civilisation having similarity with Persian and indian civilisation are not coincidence. There was no need to colonise any place at all (except africa).

Australia was a big empty landmass , just around the corner and probably every Indian sea farer knew about it. Yet there was no attempt to build settlements there.
Sure , the land there was barren , but it was rich with various mineable resources.

Imagine the power we would be wielding today if , Australian continent would have been under Indian control.

Also, until one is able to develop technology to travel without need for expendable fuel, interplanetary travel is just a myth. So, no need to think that far

Traveling to Moon and Mars is still interplanetary in nature.
What you are referring to is intersteller travel. That would involve FTL and is the stuff of future.

 

[Adioz]

Manned program is not a waste but should not be an immediate priority for us.Helium 3 mining and using it as a fuel is not technically or financially feasible as of now.

First we have to address our terrestrial needs,only then can we dream about the interstellar.

While sending people to distant planets is a thing of the distant future,sending humans to space as of now is of little economic value because of advancement in automation,machines can do much more than man and that too with much lesser costs.

India's social issues are severe even by developing country standards and it has to be addressed before we think of any prestige oriented mission of little economic value.

The issue is that even the 50-60's era America had a better living condition than what India has now.

Our country continues to face major issues that needs to be addressed urgently.In the light of this fact,spending 6-7 billion on a manned mission would be nothing but a complete waste of money.

But I am not against space technology,i just want to convey is that the government should spend it's resources on the technology which directly benefits the population eg like INSAT,IRS,EDUSAT.

A manned mission now will get us nothing more than a place in encyclopedia.

I agree that our country faces a multitude of issues and that trying to get in a race of human exploration with NASA and Space X is a bad idea. From your replies, its evident that you do consider the importance of human spaceflight to become more pronounced as we progress into the future. I agree that the fusion reactors which will use Helium 3 are not here yet.
But, we are not targeting moon exploration now. In fact, I have stated this before, we will be unable to go to the moon until 2040:-

So all in all, India might only be able to send a man to moon after 2035, and possibly even later, after 2040 (depending on the number of roadblocks we encounter on the way).

However, its still possible to have a shoe-string budget human spaceflight program to maintain a space station. Now I know space stations are expensive endeavours. So we need to figure out what kind of a space station we need. However, today, even space stations are a distant dream. Here is what I think is possible:-

• 2018-2021: (All this is currently targeted in 2018-2021)
  • Operationalise SCE-200 engine and replace Vikas engines in GSLV MkIII with SCE-200 engine.
  • Increase launch frequency.
  • Operationalise SSLV and capture nanosatellite market.
  • Bring in private sector to build rockets, especially the PSLV.
  • Use existing configuration of GSLV Mk III to certify the crew module of the orbital vehicle to be used for human spaceflight.
  • Carry out LEX and other experiments for Reusable Launch Vehicle (RLV) spaceplane/TSTO
• 2021-2024:
  • Start designing docking systems.
    
  • Start designing Indian Space Station.
  • Further increase launch frequency.
  • Design a full scale Reusable Launch Vehicle spaceplane with SCE-200 engines.
  • Build and certify modular ULV rockets.
    
  • Human rate the ULV rocket.
  • Conduct test launches of ULV rocket with orbital vehicle.
  • Test orbital vehicle including testing of crew module and service module. (AFAIK, service module is supposed to be propelled by 4th stage engines of PSLV)
• 2024-2025: Launch a crew of three Vyomanauts to Low Earth Orbit (LEO) for a week.
• 2025-2030:
  • Further increase launch frequency.
  • Build the RLV spaceplane.
  • Start testing docking systems.
  • Develop HLV and SHLV rockets.
• 2030:
  • SHLV ready. Can send heavier payloads (upto 41 tons) to LEO for a space station.
  • Send first module of Indian Space Station weighing <40 tons using SHLV.
• 2030-2040:
  • Expand Indian Space Station if necessary.
  • Operationalise RLV spaceplane/TSTO.
  • Design SSTO spaceplane with scramjet engines.
  • Design a moon rocket.
  • Test and human rate that moon rocket. (post-2035)
• 2040: Send first Indian to Moon.

Hence, we can have our own space station by 2030. What are we going to do with a space station?

• Conduct microgravity experiments
  • The unique ability to observe and measure the long-term effects of microgravity on natural phenomena and investigate less-studied forces typically inaccessible to ground studies
  • Greater sensitivity in measurements of phenomena and characteristics than ground-based experiments in many fields
  • The study of a vast array of changes in organisms, ranging from bacteria to humans, induced by the space environment, including global alterations in gene expression and three-dimensional aggregation of cells into tissue-like architecture
• Testing and qualification of materials exposed to extreme conditions of space to provide data to enable the manufacturing of long-life reliable components used on Earth.

• Figure out and resolve the challenges encountered in a long-duration human space mission like human missions to Mars.

Many of these experiments conducted in a space station lead to commercial dividends for us. Hence, we can ask private sector to foot part of the bill for an Indian Space Station.

The problem is that timeline I stated above is the best case scenario where we do not encounter any roadblock.

• India today is beset with problems, so no point sending humans to space today. Correct.
• India in 2030 will have solved a majority of its problems (including poverty) and will be in a position to undertake a manned space station after 2030.
• By 2040, India will be a middle-income economy and in a position to send Vyomanauts to the Moon.
• After 2045, we can start sending Vyomanauts to Mars. Maybe the first Indian lands on Mars on the 100th year of our Independence.

Do you still think that ISRO is wrong in developing the building blocks for our future today? Or should we wait until we are a high-middle income economy (2040) before we start developing the technologies required for Human spaceflight?

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...till-a-long-way-away/articleshow/64897407.cms

so i suppose Japan and then euro space agency will beat us to manned space flight

hah i suppose we just dont have the money , nor the priority nor the focus ....so japan and ESA will get ahead of us

Maybe Japan will, but I am not sure about Europe.
____________________________________________________________________________________
@Dovah @Razor @Mods, please copy posts number #3619 to #3633 and move posts number #3634 to this post to the relevant thread: Indian Human Spaceflight Program (HSP)

 

[Heat]

First we have to address our terrestrial needs,only then can we dream about the interstellar.

While sending people to distant planets is a thing of the distant future,sending humans to space as of now is of little economic value because of advancement in automation,machines can do much more than man and that too with much lesser costs.

If we don't develope the tech today , it won't magically appear tommorow when the need arrives.

India's social issues are severe even by developing country standards and it has to be addressed before we think of any prestige oriented mission of little economic value.

No amount of government spending is going to sort out the surviving social issues , the change has to come from within.
And we are multi-dimensional society with a population of 130 crore. We have the capability to take on multiple problems at once.

 

[Chinmoy]

But in the ISRO PAD abort test, the crew module splashes down hard after releasing the main chutes before the module touches water. Why the hard splash down?

It might be because the retro rockets have not yet been fitted in the module. Indian design is same as that of Russian crew module.

 

[Jameson Emoni]

@Akask kumar @indiatester @rishivashista13 @Anupu @Chinmoy
Dedicating a thread for the HSP. Though final details and confirmation about the program was to be known in 2017, Outcome budget of 2016-17 is already out.
There were rumours that it may have been put on hold but after ISRO chief's remarks, it seems positive, ISRO will further be going ahead with a Pad Abort test by year end.
This thread gonna be about reports, news of rockets, spacecrafts, suites, life support systems, training or anything related to HSP.
From Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre:
HUMAN SPACEFLIGHT

Crew Module Atmospheric Re-entry Experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Indian human spaceflight programme - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Michael Clark talks about India's human spaceflight programme and the rockets that will enable them.

Space program is vital for a country like India which needs to uplift large number of people from poverty as it creates jobs and provides technological breakthroughs necessary for civilizational advancement. I am glad to see we are taking space exploration seriously. As our population increases, we will need to colonize parts of our solar systems unless Canada or Australia are willing to fork up some of their lands.

 

[happylion]

It might be because the retro rockets have not yet been fitted in the module. Indian design is same as that of Russian crew module.

Retrorockets at touch down uis for splat (Soyuz) and not splash landing.
The drop tests for varying heights had been done by a helicopter before.
Cutting off the parachutes is a timed event and very likely done early to get a drop test information as it would also test the passive crew impact attenuation systems (something similar but not same as a crush crash zone of a car) .This was also done by NASA with repeated drop tests.So people need not unduly get worried about this.
The splash down should be at approx 25-30 feet per second and the cut off drop test would be to get additional impact information.
The parachute cut off is typically a closed loop system at a predetermined height or at touch down such that the parachutes do not fall over the crew capsule making recovery difficult. This height will be determined and done based on the data which is now obtained

 

[Adioz]

Now that Modi has announced the possible launch of first Indian manned space mission in 2022, I am positive that the government is solidly behind this.
I remain skeptical about the 2022 launch date though. I believe 2025 to be a much more realistic date. 2022 might be rushing it a bit too soon.

An interesting summary of the HSP ISRO:
Human Spaceflight Program (Overview)

 

[Chinmoy]

Now that Modi has announced the possible launch of first Indian manned space mission in 2022, I am positive that the government is solidly behind this.
I remain skeptical about the 2022 launch date though. I believe 2025 to be a much more realistic date. 2022 might be rushing it a bit too soon.

An interesting summary of the HSP ISRO:
Human Spaceflight Program (Overview)

Yeah I too think 2022 would be bit unrealistic for this. As I have mentioned earlier too, we would have to bring GSLV Mk III upto the level of PSLV on reliability and confidence. But even ISRO seems to be high and upbeat as of now. So hope they know what they are doing and how things are moving.

Manned space mission doable by 2022, says ISRO

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...le-by-2022-says-isro/articleshow/65418691.cms

 

[Berkut]

The issue is that even the 50-60's era America had a better living condition than what India has now.

Our country continues to face major issues that needs to be addressed urgently.In the light of this fact,spending 6-7 billion on a manned mission would be nothing but a complete waste of money.

But I am not against space technology,i just want to convey is that the government should spend it's resources on the technology which directly benefits the population eg like INSAT,IRS,EDUSAT.

A manned mission now will get us nothing more than a place in encyclopedia.

Sirji that's a very commie approach to things. With this logic, why build 6 lane super highways when and quoting commies "India's unwashed masses need roti kapra makaan". This is what a congressi or a Oxford return leftie would say sipping $100 glass of champagne at a 5 star hotel.
Manned mission, will generate a lot of employment. The logistics itself is mind boggling. The technology gains in putting this together will be huge.
Moreover, it will give Indians, heroes.

 

[Flame Thrower]

@Indx TechStyle where the hell are you man!!!

I know that you're following space news and this thread as well.

It's time for you to post....

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Sirji that's a very commie approach to things. With this logic, why build 6 lane super highways when and quoting commies "India's unwashed masses need roti kapra makaan". This is what a congressi or a Oxford return leftie would say sipping $100 glass of champagne at a 5 star hotel.
Manned mission, will generate a lot of employment. The logistics itself is mind boggling. The technology gains in putting this together will be huge.
Moreover, it will give Indians, heroes.

Budget we utilize for Space isn't even a fraction, we aren't short of budget for well being of people but accessibility which has been improving fast.
Holding research programs in the name of poverty will make sure that your country is another hundred years behind the world.
For @CrYsIs, he doesn't write it because it's rational but writes because he needs to criticize. Once, he was warning us on behalf of CCP that we gonna be paying very high price for antagonizing em.:biggrin2:

@Indx TechStyle where the hell are you man!!!

I know that you're following space news and this thread as well.

It's time for you to post....

Was busy in dealing with bumps in life, I will try to post like that again.