Indian Economy: News and Discussion

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Bharatvaasis must understand how China got started with economic reforms. It all started with Deng Xiaoping’ s visit to Singapore and meeting Lee Kuan Yew, their remarkable leader. He drew his inspiration from Singapore and not Soviet Union, which our foolish leaders tried to copy economically. The idea for SEZs all over China’s souther coast as early as 1978 came from that visit. If Indira Ganduji had visited Singapore or just copied Singapore’s SEZ policies for southern India, the chances are that we would have been a similar development position to China. But she was busy imposing emergency and trying to come back to power and we lost the entire decade of 70s and 80s while Deng was busy reforming China’s economy greatly.
Between Nehru and Indira Gandhi, 30 years of bad policies, poor leadership, inability to reform like Deng and Lee did with a lot of focus is why India is perennially behind the economic race.
Now Modi wants to be the Deng Xiaoping or Lee Kuan Yew of India but unfortunately the manufacturing sector is not picking up due to slowdown in western consumption and other countries like Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia having built much better manufacturing infra. Now we are doing PLI, arm twisting quoting the size of the Indian market etc. If only we had a Lee Kuan Yew or Deng like PM early on, we would be in a very different state.
‘Here I have to admire Deng Xiaoping for copying the Singapore model and not fall for the Soviet model of economic development, which was mostly fake.

 

[Shuturmurg]

View attachment 221778

Is this real?? How did it drop so fast and to such low levels? An IMR of 3 is literally one of the lowest in the world.

Mizoram records lowest infant mortality rate in country for second consecutive year

www.deccanherald.com

Mizoram has really high HDI. Reason : Most peaceful north-east state along with Sikkim (since 80's). High education driven by church and I assume there are lot of church driven health care as well, although I don't know much about it. More than 50% of population lives in urban area.

 

[spacemarine2023]

Well said. The rate of infrastructure development in India is pathetic. Just because BJP is building things at twice the rate at scamgress does not give them a free pass. China at Indias level of development was building 10000km of expressways, 4000km of new railways and at least 30-50000km of 6+ lane urban roads each year. None of these were overbuilt as most of them were easily absorbed. The Americans did the same in the aftermath of WW2. They were also building 7000km of interstate expressways each year. Combined Europe countries post war had similar construction feats. How many km of urban roads do you think the entire of India builds each year? I dont think the combined length is even touching 100km. India at this stage of development needs to be building 20km2 of properly masterplanned urban area every year in each of the 500 biggest cities/towns. Instead we have idiots chesttumping about shmart cities which has accomplished nothing. Indian banks are also too stingy in lending cheap credit to MSME and industrialists, and the courts are too lethargic in going after and severely punishing corrupt businessmen or politicians who misuse those funds. This is why not a single Indian city resembles a sane 21st century city.

The infrastructure should be focused on ROI, never should be wasteful expenditure of resources.

China example is pretty bad one, Chinese are in deep rabbit hole. If they stop the infra spending they will lose around 30% of there production.
Chinese has built up so much overcapacity the whole BRI set up was to export the overcapacity’l.

Imagine this chinese real estate production is stopped(it should be as there are no demand) but still they r building - they will lose 15% of GDP values

now imagine they stop building bullet trains for no where, express ways to nowhere they will lose another 15%.

Indian govt is spending where its must it will be fallacy to overspend just to push GDP numbers.

Chinese r fcked

 

[kartus]

अमेरिकी नौसेना के जहाजों की देखरेख भारत करेगा 700 million dollars investment for Semi Conductors

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

The infrastructure should be focused on ROI, never should be wasteful expenditure of resources.

China example is pretty bad one, Chinese are in deep rabbit hole. If they stop the infra spending they will lose around 30% of there production.
Chinese has built up so much overcapacity the whole BRI set up was to export the overcapacity’l.

Imagine this chinese real estate production is stopped(it should be as there are no demand) but still they r building - they will lose 15% of GDP values

now imagine they stop building bullet trains for no where, express ways to nowhere they will lose another 15%.

Indian govt is spending where its must it will be fallacy to overspend just to push GDP numbers.

Chinese r fcked

Even with the excess wasteful spending removed from China, their infrastructure buildup was still several times higher in logistics, urban districts, manufacturing SEZs, science & technology at the same stage of development as we are today. All this is because our babus are thoroughly soaked in the stingy Soviet model and not the globally connected East Asian models which they sim do not understand. When was the last time you saw a conference of urban planners from East Asia in India?
Singapore was helping building a completely new hi-tech city as Andhra’s capital. They completely trashed that going back to the stingy Soviet model , which really does not work for India. The socialist nonsense being talked about in several Indian states is because of this deep penetration of Soviet ideologies. Actually even the Soviets warned Nehru that his form of conservative socialism or stingy socialism was bad for growth. He did not listen and we had 3% growth for 30 years, when growing from a small economic base. Note how the left commies in India never quote the Chinese form of socialism + growth but the very conservative form of Lehru-Soviet model.
Taking on debt for infrastructure is never a bad idea. It has worked everywhere. It is just that the debt should be raised cheaply and for long term like from JICA, gulf sovereign funds etc. Cities should have been taught how to get good credit rating and raise quality debt to fund infrastructure massively.
Why is that the size of top Indian real estate companies like DLF only about 10% a large Chinese company? That is too small for a population India’s size. In any case, it is a bit late now. We have to work 5 times harder to do the same things we could have done 30 years ago. Only after Soviet Union’s collapse and we went bankrupt, we have decoupled from the stingy, isolated trade model of the Soviets. But by then China had already reformed and grown for 15+ years using the Singapore model

 

[spacemarine2023]

Even with the excess wasteful spending removed from China, their infrastructure buildup was still several times higher in logistics, urban districts, manufacturing SEZs, science & technology at the same stage of development as we are today. All this is because our babus are thoroughly soaked in the stingy Soviet model and not the globally connected East Asian models which they sim do not understand. When was the last time you saw a conference of urban planners from East Asia in India?
Singapore was helping building a completely new hi-tech city as Andhra’s capital. They completely trashed that going back to the stingy Soviet model , which really does not work for India. The socialist nonsense being talked about in several Indian states is because of this deep penetration of Soviet ideologies. Actually even the Soviets warned Nehru that his form of conservative socialism or stingy socialism was bad for growth. He did not listen and we had 3% growth for 30 years, when growing from a small economic base. Note how the left commies in India never quote the Chinese form of socialism + growth but the very conservative form of Lehru-Soviet model.
Taking on debt for infrastructure is never a bad idea. It has worked everywhere. It is just that the debt should be raised cheaply and for long term like from JICA, gulf sovereign funds etc. Cities should have been taught how to get good credit rating and raise quality debt to fund infrastructure massively.
Why is that the size of top Indian real estate companies like DLF only about 10% a large Chinese company? That is too small for a population India’s size. In any case, it is a bit late now. We have to work 5 times harder to do the same things we could have done 30 years ago. Only after Soviet Union’s collapse and we went bankrupt, we have decoupled from the stingy, isolated trade model of the Soviets. But by then China had already reformed and grown for 15+ years using the Singapore model

I am not getting what you are trying to say.

past is past so bringing Nehru socialist policy impact wont result in anything.

Regarding Babu reign I have seen how atleast in Modi 1st term it was crushed but it will same old as we go outside the ven digram of PMO.
Firm put us in smart city project we burned up govt money for couple of years due to babudom mayajaal and no they r not socialist they r straight up lazy and corrupt complaint came from gora bosses all PMO babus were replaced by Modi.
babus r a full proof ecosystem Modi can replace them but can’t Change the ecosystem. Babu ecosystem can only correct themselves if overall society changes its way.

Again China is a pretty bad example to follow they are able to continue wasteful expenditure as world is subsidising them with trade surplus but the day is not far where balance will reach a critical point.

 

[warriorextreme]

There is a new article by Ashoka Mody -

Indian growth is fake

India’s Fake Growth Story | by Ashoka Mody - Project Syndicate

Ashoka Mody accuses the government of using faulty national accounting to cover up growing macroeconomic problems.

www.project-syndicate.org

Ashoka Mody claims that the GDP number is just a “branding and beautification” exercise ahead of the G20 Summit in Delhi, and there is no growth in the Indian economy despite encouraging GDP numbers

View attachment 221755

**

Rebuttal

CEA V. Anantha Nageswaran And Co-Author Respond To Charges Of Government 'Downplaying Inconvenient Macroeconomic Facts'

A recent article by an Indian-origin academic in a European publication alleged India's growth story to be 'fake'.

swarajyamag.com

View attachment 221756

The data was correct when the GDP Contracted during COVID, it was used to attack the government, and now suddenly the data is fake because GDP is increasing

Oh the enemies of India, thou art a stinky piece of shit

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

I am not getting what you are trying to say.

past is past so bringing Nehru socialist policy impact wont result in anything.

Regarding Babu reign I have seen how atleast in Modi 1st term it was crushed but it will same old as we go outside the ven digram of PMO.
Firm put us in smart city project we burned up govt money for couple of years due to babudom mayajaal and no they r not socialist they r straight up lazy and corrupt complaint came from gora bosses all PMO babus were replaced by Modi.
babus r a full proof ecosystem Modi can replace them but can’t Change the ecosystem. Babu ecosystem can only correct themselves if overall society changes its way.

Again China is a pretty bad example to follow they are able to continue wasteful expenditure as world is subsidising them with trade surplus but the day is not far where balance will reach a critical point.

This is how Chinese and Singaporeans thought before Lee and Deng stepped in. Modi needs to truly become a Lee Kuan Yew and speed up everything even if it causes pain to some. First bring in death penalty for drug traffickers so youth of Punjab and J&K don’t fall victim to this menace. If Singapore and others can do it, we can too.

 

[spacemarine2023]

This is how Chinese and Singaporeans thought before Lee and Deng stepped in. Modi needs to truly become a Lee Kuan Yew and speed up everything even if it causes pain to some. First bring in death penalty for drug traffickers so youth of Punjab and J&K don’t fall victim to this menace. If Singapore and others can do it, we can too.

kya chutiap hai khan se khan pahunch gya chal bhaag … fckin waste of time

 

[indus]

Well said. The rate of infrastructure development in India is pathetic. Just because BJP is building things at twice the rate at scamgress does not give them a free pass. China at Indias level of development was building 10000km of expressways, 4000km of new railways and at least 30-50000km of 6+ lane urban roads each year. None of these were overbuilt as most of them were easily absorbed. The Americans did the same in the aftermath of WW2. They were also building 7000km of interstate expressways each year. Combined Europe countries post war had similar construction feats. How many km of urban roads do you think the entire of India builds each year? I dont think the combined length is even touching 100km. India at this stage of development needs to be building 20km2 of properly masterplanned urban area every year in each of the 500 biggest cities/towns. Instead we have idiots chesttumping about shmart cities which has accomplished nothing. Indian banks are also too stingy in lending cheap credit to MSME and industrialists, and the courts are too lethargic in going after and severely punishing corrupt businessmen or politicians who misuse those funds. This is why not a single Indian city resembles a sane 21st century city.

For that India needs a dictatorial system of governance. Democrazy has its limitations

 

[omaebakabaka]

you dont understand the issue is apathy of hindu benGali ppl to less fortunate hindu benGalis only.
Although state govt has full monopoly of Bengali language media, still the news filters regarding lobe of mullas on rural hindus to chutia dhindu bengalis seating in state machinery who can act despite state govt pressure.
Most of these ugly filth has one foot outside bengal and they propagate shit like bengali think shit 100 years forward bengali shit n all some kind sickular lipstick they themselves put wtf going on in bengal.

Modi govt cant act if bengali hindus as a whole r this much chutia. Why to open a front where the populace as a whole is ill informed and carry grudges similar to bangladeshi mullas against India this will waste Modi govt focus from other areas.

Let the ugly sickular bengali filth njoy in thr shithole only issue is they come to other states and shit mouth the same. sm1 posted here some posts from bangladeshi mullas I have seen similar words coming from sickular bengali filth in delhi lets just say he got kambal pitai so severe the filth never said similar words again.

Thats why most of independent bengali Hindus girls prefer to marry in other states if they get out of chutiap of these ugly filth dhindhu bengalis.

All the more reason to have taken the opportunity to introduce PR and clean up, worst thing for Hindus living in areas like this like I grew up is anti State machinary. You can fight thugs but state machinary like police is a different thing. Bengalis are cucked, but the ones killed are hindus that were anti TC but you are equating them to cucked hindus at large in Bengal. Not even BJP president was spared from attack.....one has to be blind to think Modi did what he needed to do. Pure BS.

 

[Cheepek]

No news yet

Where are the shitty journalists when you need them

 

[another_armchair]

India Exports to United States - 2024 Data 2025 Forecast 1988-2022 Historical

India Exports to United States was US$80.23 Billion during 2022, according to the United Nations COMTRADE database on international trade. India Exports to United States - data, historical chart and statistics - was last updated on April of 2024.

tradingeconomics.com

Our exports to the US have seen a sharp spike over the last couple of years.

Interesting mix.

Number four raises some interesting questions.

Who are the exporters under the head - Machinery, nuclear reactors, boilers ?

 

[Physx32]

HSR is unviable over longer distances, as the returns per KM does not justify the cost.

This is a flawed line of thinking. HSR or railways don't need to profitable as long as do their primary job, which is to move millions of people throughout the year efficiently.

Mumbai suburban network is a loss making unit. Does that mean it doesn't contribute to the economy and we should shut it down? No.

If it makes 100 cr loss in operation, it contributes 10 times as much to Mumbai's GDP. Same will be for HSR.

Instead of profit, the target to should be to improve efficiency and bring operating ratio close to 1.

 

[Physx32]

Hey @FalconSlayers @Bharatiya I think I have your answer.

Me -
why doesn't 272 lakh cr convert to 3.75 trillion dollars. The GDP in Rupees & in dollars doesn't match

GPT4 -
The reason why 272 lakh crore does not convert to 3.75 trillion dollars is because the conversion is not based on a simple multiplication of the exchange rate. The GDP at current prices in rupees is calculated using the domestic prices of goods and services in India, while the GDP at current prices in dollars is calculated using the international prices of goods and services in the world market. Therefore, the GDP in dollars is not simply the GDP in rupees divided by the exchange rate, but rather a more complex measure that takes into account the purchasing power parity (PPP) of different countries.

According to the World Bank, the PPP conversion factor for India in 2022 was 0.268, which means that one rupee in India had the same purchasing power as 0.268 US cents in the United States. Using this factor, we can convert the GDP in rupees to GDP in PPP dollars, which is a more accurate measure of the economic output of India compared to other countries. The formula for this conversion is:

GDP in PPP dollars = GDP in rupees x PPP conversion factor / 100
Using this formula, we can calculate the GDP in PPP dollars for India in 2022-23 as follows:

GDP in PPP dollars = 272.04 lakh crore x 0.268 / 100
GDP in PPP dollars = 728.67 billion dollars

To convert this GDP in PPP dollars to GDP in nominal dollars, we need to use another factor called the PPP to market exchange rate ratio, which is the ratio of the PPP conversion factor to the market exchange rate. According to the World Bank, this ratio for India in 2022 was 0.343, which means that one PPP dollar was equivalent to 0.343 nominal dollars. Using this ratio, we can convert the GDP in PPP dollars to GDP in nominal dollars, which is the same as the GDP at current prices in dollars. The formula for this conversion is:

GDP in nominal dollars = GDP in PPP dollars x PPP to market exchange rate ratio

Using this formula, we can calculate the GDP in nominal dollars for India in 2022-23 as follows:

GDP in nominal dollars = 728.67 billion dollars x 0.343
GDP in nominal dollars = 249.83 billion dollars
This is approximately equal to 3.75 trillion US dollars at the exchange rate of 72.54 rupees per dollar.

Me -
so we first convert GDP in local currency to GDP in PPP and then to GDP in nominal terms.

GPT4 -
Yes, that is correct. We first convert the GDP in local currency to GDP in PPP and then to GDP in nominal terms. This is because the GDP in PPP reflects the real purchasing power of the local currency in terms of goods and services, while the GDP in nominal terms reflects the market value of the local currency in terms of foreign exchange.

I diluted the conversation 20% just to makes things crisp.

I hope you're joking. Unit of GDP PPP is international dollars (a fictional unit). You're casually mixing fictional units with USD.

 

[Physx32]

you dont understand the issue is apathy of hindu benGali ppl to less fortunate hindu benGalis only.
Although state govt has full monopoly of Bengali language media, still the news filters regarding lobe of mullas on rural hindus to chutia dhindu bengalis seating in state machinery who can act despite state govt pressure.
Most of these ugly filth has one foot outside bengal and they propagate shit like bengali think shit 100 years forward bengali shit n all some kind sickular lipstick they themselves put wtf going on in bengal.

Modi govt cant act if bengali hindus as a whole r this much chutia. Why to open a front where the populace as a whole is ill informed and carry grudges similar to bangladeshi mullas against India this will waste Modi govt focus from other areas.

Let the ugly sickular bengali filth njoy in thr shithole only issue is they come to other states and shit mouth the same. sm1 posted here some posts from bangladeshi mullas I have seen similar words coming from sickular bengali filth in delhi lets just say he got kambal pitai so severe the filth never said similar words again.

Thats why most of independent bengali Hindus girls prefer to marry in other states if they get out of chutiap of these ugly filth dhindhu bengalis.

Who the fuck are you to call Bengalis as "ugly filth"? Talk like in your house, but here learn to write in a civilized way.

 

[sauntheninja]

Who the fuck are you to call Bengalis as "ugly filth"? Talk like in your house, but here learn to write in a civilized way.

Anyone not in a BJP ruled state gets viciously attacked here

 

[Lonewolf]

Anyone not in a BJP ruled state gets viciously attacked here

Not exactly, but whatever makes your day

 

[thebakofbakchod]

Found this on the Bangladesh finance website. Looks like there is an even split amongst Japanese companies in India. We are doing better than Indonesia and Philippines, and slightly worse than Malaysia and Vietnam. Could live with that

71% Japanese firms dissatisfied with business climate in Bangladesh

Although Japanese companies operating in Bangladesh are upbeat about the growth potential in the country, 71 percent of them are dissatisfied with the general business environment, a new survey showed.

www.thedailystar.net

 

[no smoking]

Bharatvaasis must understand how China got started with economic reforms. It all started with Deng Xiaoping’ s visit to Singapore and meeting Lee Kuan Yew, their remarkable leader. He drew his inspiration from Singapore
......
we would be in a very different state.
‘Here I have to admire Deng Xiaoping for copying the Singapore model and not fall for the Soviet model of economic development, which was mostly fake.

No, economically, Singapore was never a model of China. As a city country sitting on the most important ocean transportation point in Asia, there is no similarity between China and Singapore. In whole 80s, the Chinese leaders were only focusing on 2 things:
1. Land reform in countryside by allowing peasants to sell part of their products in the market freely;
2. Introducing bonus into the manufacturing fields;
I remembered that during 80s-90s, in China, there were quite a lot economic books published studying world advanced economies, most of them were Japan, US, Taiwan, South Korea, German, even UK (due to her economic liberalism policies). None of them was Singapore, at least I have never read one. The part of Singapore which interested Chinese leaders is political part: how to run one-party government in modern economy.

Some people believe that Deng was the reason China started reform. It is wrong.
Building up a prosperous westernized economy had been the dream of Chinese leaders. Even Mao himself publicly claimed that he would prefer west investment as long as west treat China fairly.
There is one thing very interest: during the whole cultural revolution, guess who suffered the most? The answer is: pro-Soviet Chinese leaders, or left wing.
So, in 1978, China was ready for the westernization, economically, socially and politically. Deng was just the directing manager selected by the elite class to undertake the whole policy.