Indian Economy: News and Discussion

[Covfefe]

Looks like Lucknow region is getting one. Nice. The good thing is these parks will be built by private players. But is this all too late? Vietnam, Bangladesh, Thailand have already taken away a lot of textile business. We are still not acting fast enough to attract investments in competitive areas. Babus don’t understand the meaning of competition. They think everyone will invest in India just like that.

India's domestic consumption is still huge enough to justify investment. Just hope that Babus don't screw it up, especially for UP. Babaji's regime has proven itself good for law and order and cultural reclamation, but is yet to prove itself for businesses. All the Noida centric investments are either Union driven or organic growth of NCR

 

[Ugra Bhairav]

People in this forum either don't live in India or have become too used to shoddy work. This gem of a reel came to my feed today

Mittal Khaniya મીરાં on Instagram: "Thank you @amdavadamc 🙏🏻 📍hebatpur gam road, sp ring road, Ahmedabad"

25K likes, 290 comments - mittal_khaniya on February 1, 2024: "Thank you @amdavadamc 🙏🏻 📍hebatpur gam road, sp ring road, Ahmedabad".

www.instagram.com

What is the combined IQ of everyone in this frame? For starters, what are they doing with such a tiny brush? Even for my house walls, I use a bigger brush. Did no one stop for even 1 second and realise using a brush like the one below will not only make their jobs much easier, but also allow paint to be evenly spread to a larger surface? This is not even getting to the idiotic location and quality of that road hump on what looks like a main road.

View attachment 239945

You can extend this jugaad rubbish to every single aspect of society

It is the Equipments and cost of Equipments, we are expecting them to do the work upto western standards with frugal instruments.

Still the work been done by using jugads will never result what been done by standard equipment.

Till 10-15 years back all the work was done by hands, without using basic equipments such as drilling machines, hammer machines, cutters etc.

However things have improved now and will keep on improving as capacity to pay for such technical equipments improves in the society as it gets richer.

 

[Physx32]

Whatever this labor like Masons,Wood workers, Painters etc, they are worst in skill than in some sub-saharan shitholes. There are no rules or proper procedures. Even if they are paid on the level of developed countries they would rather drink themselves to death than save a few day savings and buy a proper tool. They don't know standards. As of now, me being in top 10 Engineering college in India, there are construction of new buildings ongoing with one already completed. The finished one interior is extremely rough, there is paint blobs or whatever on Male Urinals along with Tiles. The tiles have gap within them and all the unwanted shit stuck there. Don't have commonsense of covering tiles and urinals while painting. All of the workers look like chapris with skinny torn jeans and shit. Again, One worker is observed cutting rebars without eye or hand protection, and there's a lack of masks or helmets to address dust concerns. Beyond safety issues, during a prior electrical work contract to add sockets in a hostel, an electrician with a costly Oneplus device used a drilling machine with loose wires instead of a proper plug. He wore no protection like gloves or boots. His hammer literally looks like my grandfathers old hammer to nail things. If you see videos of other country workmen they would look extremely well done. They follow rules and simple things like covering shit while painting or not spraying putti blobs everywhere. The situation suggests a systemic problem, with both the system and workers displaying deficiencies. It goes beyond blaming bureaucrats. Once we hired a plumber who charged 350 rupees to change a water tap, emphasizing the prevalence of greedy and unskilled service providers.

I can only speak about electrical standards in India. The issue is we do have somewhat proper IS codes for residential and commercial electrical networks.

But those codes are not actually followed irl. Just open a switch box inside your house and check the mess. You'll see that no colour codes are followed and they even tape the wires (which is extremely dangerous). No wonder, short circuits are so common here.

What are the rules and standards in the west for these sectors?

I have seen tons of creators on YouTube - plumbers, carpenters, car mechanics, masons, electricians - each creator tells their own set of rules and procedures, and the comments are always full of other experts claiming how the person did bad job in the video and what is the correct way to do it.

You're being a bit obtuse here. Western standards are far more superior than anything in India.

Compare the electrical standards and see the difference. Essential safety devices like GFCI/RCCD are not even mandatory in India. How many members in this forum even have RCCD installed in their homes?

As for Youtube, it's the professionals who criticize the sketchy DIY work (especially electrical, HVAC and plumbing).

Look at the quality of a simple AC installation. I've chosen Japan because they install mini-splits just like us.

And what do we get here? Illiterate labourers squeezing the insulation with teflon tapes (for which they charge extra) and destroying its very purpose. Once I asked one installer about subcool and superheat, he had never heard those words before

 

[Physx32]

People in this forum either don't live in India or have become too used to shoddy work. This gem of a reel came to my feed today

Mittal Khaniya મીરાં on Instagram: "Thank you @amdavadamc 🙏🏻 📍hebatpur gam road, sp ring road, Ahmedabad"

25K likes, 290 comments - mittal_khaniya on February 1, 2024: "Thank you @amdavadamc 🙏🏻 📍hebatpur gam road, sp ring road, Ahmedabad".

www.instagram.com

What is the combined IQ of everyone in this frame? For starters, what are they doing with such a tiny brush? Even for my house walls, I use a bigger brush. Did no one stop for even 1 second and realise using a brush like the one below will not only make their jobs much easier, but also allow paint to be evenly spread to a larger surface? This is not even getting to the idiotic location and quality of that road hump on what looks like a main road.

View attachment 239945

You can extend this jugaad rubbish to every single aspect of society

The bigger issue is that they're using normal white paint instead thermoplastic polymer infused with glass beads. Normal paint will be useless at night.

 

[LudoLalit]

I can only speak about electrical standards in India. The issue is we do have somewhat proper IS codes for residential and commercial electrical networks.

But those codes are not actually followed irl. Just open a switch box inside your house and check the mess. You'll see that no colour codes are followed and they even tape the wires (which is extremely dangerous). No wonder, short circuits are so common here.

You're being a bit obtuse here. Western standards are far more superior than anything in India.

Compare the electrical standards and see the difference. Essential safety devices like GFCI/RCCD are not even mandatory in India. How many members in this forum even have RCCD installed in their homes?

As for Youtube, it's the professionals who criticize the sketchy DIY work (especially electrical, HVAC and plumbing).

Look at the quality of a simple AC installation. I've chosen Japan because they install mini-splits just like us.

And what do we get here? Illiterate labourers squeezing the insulation with teflon tapes (for which they charge extra) and destroying its very purpose. Once I asked one installer about subcool and superheat, he had never heard those words before

WB me AC company wale (or their local partners) install nhi karte? Delhi me waise hi karte video ki tarah, company wale karke jate

 

[Physx32]

WB me AC company wale (or their local partners) install nhi karte? Delhi me waise hi karte video ki tarah, company wale karke jate

No, they don't install like that in Delhi or anywhere in India. If you can't observe the details, there's nothing to be said.

The only way to get proper HVAC installation is to buy VRF system. I'm installing a VRF system in my new apartment and quality of installation is more professional.

 

[LudoLalit]

No, they don't install like that in Delhi or anywhere in India. If you can't observe the details, there's nothing to be said.

The only way to get proper HVAC installation is to buy VRF system. I'm installing a VRF system in my new apartment and quality of installation is more professional.

They actually do given you get it installed from where you purchased, we got it installed pre covid.

 

[Physx32]

They actually do given you get it installed from where you purchased, we got it installed pre covid.

No, they don't. Most of the times they don't even vacuum the line unless told. 99% of the times they use a normal drill with chisel and hammer to make an ugly hole. Did they use a core drill in your case? Did they seal that hole with a grommet and silicone for waterproofing? Did they install a pvc channel for your lines?

 

[shade]

Despite all these growth and developments, the biggest challenge India faces is jobs for the crores of people who enter job market every year. All the investments and growth do drive a lot of jobs but nothing close to the labor force we have available. The situation remains that many skilled/semi-skilled people struggle to find jobs and get on the “dunki” route to America and, if successful, are able to send enough to build a mansion and own cars in their villages, give dowry etc. Their aspirations are easily met by low end illegal work in America but they have no access to decent paying jobs in India. This is a problem but not sure what the solution is as the era of mass employment is over due to technological advances.

This is some Lunjabi, Gujjew or Telugu meme gawwar, most of whom have assets( land usually ) in 1-2 crore, not the type of person who would be gareeb mazdoor in some factory in Chennai anyway

 

[LudoLalit]

No, they don't. Most of the times they don't even vacuum the line unless told. 99% of the times they use a normal drill with chisel and hammer to make an ugly hole. Did they use a core drill in your case? Did they seal that hole with a grommet and silicone for waterproofing? Did they install a pvc channel for your lines?

kia tha, kaha se khareeda be tune? Us time pe unpe bhot see drills thi bag me, hole seal kardia tha, ab to Urban Company wale bhi leke chalte hai kafi saman, sirf saaf karne ke liye.

 

[shade]

What are the rules and standards in the west for these sectors?

I have seen tons of creators on YouTube - plumbers, carpenters, car mechanics, masons, electricians - each creator tells their own set of rules and procedures, and the comments are always full of other experts claiming how the person did bad job in the video and what is the correct way to do it.

These is a massive deflator for skilled blue collar jobs pay . I dunno why but everyone I talk to flinch when I tell them how much extra i pay for carpenters,plumbers,electricians (movers and packers for that matter). It's a weird fetish we have for office jobs Unless we have a situation where such jobs are 3X of average GDP per capita we will have this meme of a shortage of workers and "youth unemployment" happening side by side.
Blore metro has a shortfall of 3000 carpenters and 3500 masons ... No babu ofcourse sits and thinks about why this is the case in a country with supposed massive unemployment.

Difference hai in the West and other countries these guys are trained for these jobs in a "Tradeschool".
Our guys basically just learnt it from some other guy who himself learnt it from another guy.

Unless you're some big name builder I doub't even any proper standards are enforced from the client to the contractor and from contractor to the various workers.

Work quality is potato because people pay peanuts and even if they'd pay properly the work is just jugaad and based on personal "experience", not any standard or "education" of the tradesman in question

 

[LudoLalit]

Difference hai in the West and other countries these guys are trained for these jobs in a "Tradeschool".
Our guys basically just learnt it from some other guy who himself learnt it from another guy.

Unless you're some big name builder I doub't even any proper standards are enforced from the client to the contractor and from contractor to the various workers.

Work quality is potato because people pay peanuts and even if they'd pay properly the work is just jugaad and based on personal "experience", not any standard or "education" of the tradesman in question

Companies like Urban Company are actually doing that, aur Skill Centers bhi hai, will standardise across the board by end of decade.

 

[shade]

Companies like Urban Company are actually doing that, aur Skill Centers bhi hai, will standardise across the board by end of decade.

For Govt construction contracts it should only be given to contractors who have such certification for all workers on the project, should be a good way to increase people enrolling in these centres and getting certified

ofc this is India so there will be fake certs and all, but everything is digital so there should be some way to reduce this

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Gloomberg author wants India to be export-first in it's manufacturing push.
But he's late, govt is already pushing exports-led manufacturing growth since a while.

PLIs are not for domestic assembly of phones, high duties are, PLIs are meant for exports

India’s true manufacturing rival is not China, it's someone else

India needs to shift its focus from the domestic market and become regionally competitive and export-driven if it wants to build a robust computer and electronics manufacturing industry. Vietnam, not China, is its biggest rival in this regard. The US and other countries have called on India to...

economictimes.indiatimes.com

Once in an interview, baba Kalyani said that Indian manufacturing strength lies in manufacturing high value goods at a competitive price and not in competing in low tech labor intensive goods. That is true as well. We are doing exceedingly well in Automobile manufacturing. Our 2 wheeler kicked out Chinese companies out of Africa. Our car launches in Australia and Russia has got tremendous response. If our companies like Jio, D mart, Patanjali etc. goes Global, they will surely kick out Wall mart like companies from many areas. Ours is a huge and complex civilization and whatever use here will find many takers. Our food, our cloth, our cosmetics our fashion cloth etc. has a huge potential to attract people across the continents. We need to go Global with full of our might for getting our place in trade and commerce what we deserve.

 

[another_armchair]

The bigger issue is that they're using normal white paint instead thermoplastic polymer infused with glass beads. Normal paint will be useless at night.

Using a tiny brush and two workers means the contractor can claim an entire day's wages for two+his own cut.

Krantikaari contractors like these later claim 40% commission demanded by Govt. babus to clear bills.

 

[Covfefe]

Indian manufacturing strength lies in manufacturing high value goods at a competitive price and not in competing in low tech labor intensive goods

We need low tech labour intensive goods to 1) employ this big ass population 2) CAD sword that's always hanging over our heads

This issue is primarily due to 'prosperity island' mindset in development. This only raises the premiumisation of the basic elements needed for industrialisation

1) Cost of Land- since there are only few business friendly areas (parts of MH,GJ, KA, TN for example), this shoots up the real estate prices. Setting up a factory needs cheap land with sufficient infra -electricity, water and road/rail/port connectivity

2) Cost of capital - we were severely underbanked nation until half a decade back. Access to capital was always difficult. Manufacturer can not work at 2%-3% per month interest rate from local moneylender. SMEs still have this issue

3) energy prices - Electricity has been super expensive for commercial use (due to government money flowing to keep discoms afloat). No capacity additions, over dependence on imported coal, "captive" clause for coal blocks allocated to private players, Dilly dallying around nuclear

4) Transportation - yeah you would've read Beijing to Mumbai per ton shipment cost lower than Mumbai to hinterlands of India wala jumla. No highways, freight trains cross subsidizing passenger, and no inland waterways

5) Only labour is cheap, but most of the ITIs are scams

6) Export market access - For obvious reasons, western countries never gave us access to their markets. For reasons known best to God, our Congi government gave South East Asian markets (ergo Assembly lines for China) free access to Indian market thru FTA in 2008 . That ensured that our manufacturing is dead in the waters

Bahut gubaar Bhara hai dil mein

 

[SKC]

Difference hai in the West and other countries these guys are trained for these jobs in a "Tradeschool".
Our guys basically just learnt it from some other guy who himself learnt it from another guy.

Unless you're some big name builder I doub't even any proper standards are enforced from the client to the contractor and from contractor to the various workers.

Work quality is potato because people pay peanuts and even if they'd pay properly the work is just jugaad and based on personal "experience", not any standard or "education" of the tradesman in question

I am not sure if that works 100% even in west. otherwise how you will explain the thousands and lakhs of home built around ourselves.
I can see all kind of quality in Masonry, Electric works, carpentry, plumbing, etc. You get quality as per the money you spend.
People learn from their bosses in west and start their own work and then with time they do get degree for their trade from the evening schools. Not even 10% start their business after earning their degree in these fields.

 

[SKC]

I can only speak about electrical standards in India. The issue is we do have somewhat proper IS codes for residential and commercial electrical networks.

But those codes are not actually followed irl. Just open a switch box inside your house and check the mess. You'll see that no colour codes are followed and they even tape the wires (which is extremely dangerous). No wonder, short circuits are so common here.

You're being a bit obtuse here. Western standards are far more superior than anything in India.

Compare the electrical standards and see the difference. Essential safety devices like GFCI/RCCD are not even mandatory in India. How many members in this forum even have RCCD installed in their homes?

As for Youtube, it's the professionals who criticize the sketchy DIY work (especially electrical, HVAC and plumbing).

Look at the quality of a simple AC installation. I've chosen Japan because they install mini-splits just like us.

And what do we get here? Illiterate labourers squeezing the insulation with teflon tapes (for which they charge extra) and destroying its very purpose. Once I asked one installer about subcool and superheat, he had never heard those words before

For the purpose of proving our points here you had to bring best of Japanese work. You can find same work here too but it is going to cost a multitude more than the work done in your regular house.

 

[SKC]

No, they don't install like that in Delhi or anywhere in India. If you can't observe the details, there's nothing to be said.

The only way to get proper HVAC installation is to buy VRF system. I'm installing a VRF system in my new apartment and quality of installation is more professional.

I don't know who you called, but the standard AC installation guys do same work here in NCR too.
Can't help if you decided that we are bad!

 

[thebakofbakchod]

Difference hai in the West and other countries these guys are trained for these jobs in a "Tradeschool".
Our guys basically just learnt it from some other guy who himself learnt it from another guy.

Unless you're some big name builder I doub't even any proper standards are enforced from the client to the contractor and from contractor to the various workers.

Work quality is potato because people pay peanuts and even if they'd pay properly the work is just jugaad and based on personal "experience", not any standard or "education" of the tradesman in question

You are forgetting corruption. There is outrageous levels of corruption happening in the construction industry, with 0 punishment to the ones who are doing it. This took place just yesterday. Who is to blame? The construction company ofc, but the wall's material was clearly not built properly.

Portion Of Delhi Metro Station Collapses, Man Dies Under Debris

A man died after a portion of the Gokulpuri Metro Station on the Pink Line in Delhi collapsed this morning.

www.ndtv.com

One killed, four hurt as Gokulpuri metro station wall collapses

A man dies after a wall collapse at Gokulpuri metro station; DMRC orders investigation and provides compensation.

www.thehindu.com

Corruption in India has remained untouched no matter what modi fanboys claim. If anything i will say it has increased because a lot more money is being invested into infrastructure these days. Every aspect of construction is corrupt and not being built to specifications