Indian Economy: News and Discussion

RoaringTigerHiddenDragon

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Oh, yes, people not knowing history will imagine that US companies made big investment in China through Hong Kong in before 2000.
The fact was not like that.
1. In 1980-1990s, the most of the business that Hongkong invested in China were factories producing textile, shoes, toys, small machines/hardware. Generally these businesses were run by Hongkongers or overseas Chinese in other Asian countries. US or Europe already quite out these industries quite long time ago, at least in Asia.

2. By 1995, the total investment from US in Hongkong was only $10.5B.
In 1995 alone, China received $35.85B FDI from the whole world. If anyone believe that US was the major investor in China through Hongkong just kid himself.
The U.S. Role During and After Hong Kong's Transition (upenn.edu)
China Foreign Direct Investment 1979-2023 | MacroTrends

3. If you check the foreign direct investment in Hongkong since 1970, you can see the real taking off was started after 2000.
View attachment 229649

Hong Kong Foreign Direct Investment 1970-2023 | MacroTrends
None of this proves the west did not invest through HK. Taiwan and Japan went this way too but that does not mean the west did not use this investment route.Of course after 2000 is when the west + Taiwan + Japan based funds/companies also started pumping money into China. Taiwan is a major investor in China as they were the ones that moved a lot of investment into labor in China.
By the way, the same is true of India also - Mauritius is the #1 FDI destination followed by Singapore. But we all know where the money is coming from.
 

AK047

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After watching Tesla ownership reviews with a breakdown of basic maintenance costs(not accidents of course) included over a five year period, makes a ton of sense for daily car commuters to switch to EV, Tesla in particular if and when it is available.

There may be horror stories beyond the rosy picture but hey, jab kismat gandu toh kya karega pandu. Same providence can screw your happiness with your fossil fuel car too.

Hope Musk buys out Ola and uses his gigafactory experience to scale up electric two wheelers. Will be super profitable in India where more than 65% petrol is consumed by two wheelers.
Yes Tesla should buy out Ola, Ather and any other Indian startup that ever exists, who the heck needs these unreliable Indian brands anyway when we can suck up to these SUPERIOR unreliable foreign brands😃😃😃.
 

RoaringTigerHiddenDragon

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After watching Tesla ownership reviews with a breakdown of basic maintenance costs(not accidents of course) included over a five year period, makes a ton of sense for daily car commuters to switch to EV, Tesla in particular if and when it is available.

There may be horror stories beyond the rosy picture but hey, jab kismat gandu toh kya karega pandu. Same providence can screw your happiness with your fossil fuel car too.

Hope Musk buys out Ola and uses his gigafactory experience to scale up electric two wheelers. Will be super profitable in India where more than 65% petrol is consumed by two wheelers.
Musk is not going to get into 2 wheelers. It is a completely different business. Lower end Tesla should be affordable to many in India. The question is: is there charging infrastructure that Tesla would need access to especially on Indian roads where cars have to work extra hard reducing mileage?
 

Arjun Mk1A

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After watching Tesla ownership reviews with a breakdown of basic maintenance costs(not accidents of course) included over a five year period, makes a ton of sense for daily car commuters to switch to EV, Tesla in particular if and when it is available.

There may be horror stories beyond the rosy picture but hey, jab kismat gandu toh kya karega pandu. Same providence can screw your happiness with your fossil fuel car too.

Hope Musk buys out Ola and uses his gigafactory experience to scale up electric two wheelers. Will be super profitable in India where more than 65% petrol is consumed by two wheelers.


What the hell Did I read here?

Dear friend why we should we allow something like Tesla to acquire Ola, for all shitty reasons still enabled lot of people to get hands on EV scooters.
 

another_armchair

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What the hell Did I read here?

Dear friend why we should we allow something like Tesla to acquire Ola, for all shitty reasons still enabled lot of people to get hands on EV scooters.
Etergo, sorry Ola scooter is a 100% indigenous product.

They managed to manufacture a little over 1.5 lakh scooters while Tesla managed to sell over 1.3 million cars globally last year.

Ola is into its 3rd year and still sorting out problems with its S1 series. The lower priced variants that were launched recently are getting panned alright.

Ather is struggling to cross the 10k per month mark as it struggles with mounting losses and supply side issues.

What is the import component of these 'indigenous' electric scooters? Needs no elaboration.

Local iPhone manufacturing did not kill the likes of Micromax or Lava. The latter was surviving on crumbs thrown by BBK and Micromax was a one phone wonder and is almost out of the race.
 

another_armchair

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Musk is not going to get into 2 wheelers. It is a completely different business. Lower end Tesla should be affordable to many in India. The question is: is there charging infrastructure that Tesla would need access to especially on Indian roads where cars have to work extra hard reducing mileage?
Barring metros and a few large state capital cities, most Indian cities are 20-30 kms from one end to the other and have basic traffic.

Tiago like cars are quite ok for urban commuting. Traffic crawls to about 10-15 kmph in most stretches of Bangalore and lower during peak traffic. Friend owns a Tiago EV and says he saves 8-9 rupees per km on his Tiago EV.

His daily commute averages 80-100 km every day in Bangalore but says mileage is lower than advertised at 160-170 per charge which is a little annoying. He uses his petrol car for out station trips.

Lower end Tesla will definitely be an attractive suitor for many provided it can perform well in Indian conditions.
 

another_armchair

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Yes Tesla should buy out Ola, Ather and any other Indian startup that ever exists, who the heck needs these unreliable Indian brands anyway when we can suck up to these SUPERIOR unreliable foreign brands😃😃😃.
LMAO .. Indian indeed with almost 100% foreign funding and nearly 90-100% Chinese/European technology. One needs to dig deeper into Ather's design claims.

Superior indigenous electric scooter makers asked to refund $60 million in subsidies for using Chinese components. Lawl....heard OLA's display controller unit is made in China too and they charge 30k if its damaged and has to be replaced.


#TheekHai
 

another_armchair

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For those living in a cocoon, read this for a wake up call.
 

Shuturmurg

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LMAO .. Indian indeed with almost 100% foreign funding and nearly 90-100% Chinese/European technology. One needs to dig deeper into Ather's design claims.

Superior indigenous electric scooter makers asked to refund $60 million in subsidies for using Chinese components. Lawl....heard OLA's display controller unit is made in China too and they charge 30k if its damaged and has to be replaced.


#TheekHai
That article itself says Ola is doing better, as production is done locally and they are indiginising more components, with batter being next as they are building a battery plant. Some of the electric scooter brands will die, only 3-4 will survive. That's to be expected in new industry as part of consolidation.
 

another_armchair

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That article itself says Ola is doing better, as production is done locally and they are indiginising more components, with batter being next as they are building a battery plant. Some of the electric scooter brands will die, only 3-4 will survive. That's to be expected in new industry as part of consolidation.
Ola is not claiming FAME subsidies on imported content like the other crooks are. From what I was told about a year ago, battery is imported, hub motor is imported, headlight assembly is imported, controller unit with display is imported along with many other parts.

As for the battery factory, that is still a year away.


India's first large-scale gigafactory which will be a manufacturing facility for rechargeable batteries for electric vehicles (EV) will be up and functioning by next year, revealed Ola Electric founder and CEO Bhavish Aggarwal in a conversation with ETNow on Wednesday.

"By early next year, we will actually make the gigafactory operational and start using our own Indian-manufactured cells and that is going to be a very important initiative to reduce cost further," said Aggarwal.
As per the CEO, the initial capacity of the Gigafactory will be 5 GWh. At full scale, the factory will have 100 GWh capacity, which will also be the world's largest battery manufacturing unit.

While talking about the cost component of the EVs, he comments on the current situation where batteries for Indian consumption have to be imported.

"We import it from Korea. It makes up for almost one-third or sometimes even 40 per cent of the EV manufacturing cost," said the founder.

He added that his company for the past two and half years has been working towards manufacturing Lithium-ion technology cells domestically.

"Not just cost, we will make sure we are self-reliant on our energy requirements," said Aggarwal on his initiatives to produce products in India.

For the next three years, Ola Electric's focus will be to double the sale of its existing products, said CEO on his future plans for the company to ETNow.

"We want every Indian to have our product as well international market," said Aggarwal.
"People have been skeptical of electrifying motorbikes but we believe there is no reason to not electrify motor bikes in coming times," commented Aggrawal.

On Tuesday, Ola Electric launched its new entry-level electric scooter S1X with introductory price of Rs 79,999 as it accelerates its challenge to conventional engine counterparts. The company also showcased its four electric motorcycles which will be launched towards the end of 2024.

"We believe that with this kind of a pricing, consumers will find EVs fundamentally better than ICE vehicles because not only the upfront price is now equal to ICE scooters but using an EV is so much cheaper than using petrol vehicles or ICE vehicles because petrol rates only go in one direction whereas electricity is much more accessible and cheap and the EV vehicles are much more efficient," said the Ola Electric CEO on company's latest launch.

"The running cost of an EV vehicle is roughly one-tenth or lower than a petrol vehicle," he added.
"Solving climate change and having a sustainable future is important. India is at the centre of climate change. If we are not changing, then it will be hard to achieve climate goals," said the founder on the reason behind Ola Electric.

-----------------------------------------------------------

With a 5 GWh capacity, they should be able to power close to a million Ola S1 Pro's a year.
 
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Arjun Mk1A

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Etergo, sorry Ola scooter is a 100% indigenous product.
Everyone in the automobile arena knows that OLA acquires Ertego and imminent Indian launch under ola brand is going to come. Only you are shocked for unknown reasons. Just visit Team BHP threads, Autocar India, Zigwheels where these were discussed to death.

They managed to manufacture a little over 1.5 lakh scooters while Tesla managed to sell over 1.3 million cars globally last year.
Why are you doing a weird comparison of sales of 4 wheelers with 2 wheelers? Going by your logic Hero MotoCorp should acquire Tesla since they sell millions of 2 wheelers per year for decades now. Heck the world largest EV manufacturer is BYD from China.

Ola is into its 3rd year and still sorting out problems with its S1 series. The lower priced variants that were launched recently are getting panned alright.
Tesla is never a company known for build quality. Infact they are worse compared to Chinese companies like BYD, Nio, Xpeng or German company like Volkswagen. I can show quality control issues video of Tesla. Their notorious behavior of not allowing FNG repairs is well known. Their autopilot failure is resulted in death of drivers in two major cases.

Tell me which car company build such an Vanilla product even the Toyota and Lexus have component issue which are sorted out during their sales. Sales and services are critical for automobile manufacturers for an reason. Ola suspension issue were sorted out by the Company free of cost. They rectified the issue altogether in the Gen 2 by going on Conventional design compared to Gen 1. As long as they are fixing the issue with their service center they are good to go and consumers will purchase.

Ather is struggling to cross the 10k per month mark as it struggles with mounting losses and supply side issues.
Ather 450 range is starting from Rs. 1,29,000. It is never a mass market scooter and clearly a Premium product. Your mass market scooters are Activa and Jupiter with 110 CC engine costing approx Rs. 1 Lakh.

Get an hang on 2 wheelers sales data. Your 80% of scooter sales are from 100-110 CC segment followed by 125 CC segment. Most EV in fact competes directly with 125 CC segment.


What is the import component of these 'indigenous' electric scooters? Needs no elaboration.
Ola is not an CKD manufacturer. They manufacturer the chassis, body panel, BCM, Motor everything in India with Indian supplier chain. They import where is no supply chain available. Do you have Display module manufacturer in India, Micro controller for BCM in India. Answer is no, Even our Automobile manufacturer will import from Thailand or China. GOI fined Okinawa and Hero for the exact reason of being misleading public by claiming they are manufacturing fully but in reality it is assembly of Chinese scooters.

Local iPhone manufacturing did not kill the likes of Micromax or Lava. The latter was surviving on crumbs thrown by BBK and Micromax was a one phone wonder and is almost out of the race.

Irrelevant point with respect to discussion. Micromax lost because at the time of their peak they failed to invest in local production, failed to develop the operating system, failed to provide an proper service since they are themselves ODM importers. They are interested in profits only and will eventually fail if you have this much glaring problems.


This looks like an mindless rant rather an healthy comment.

Again, can you show me successful American car companies in India. Because at the end even Tesla acquires, they need to formulate policies for Indian market and hire an management Team to handle that.
 

another_armchair

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Why are you doing a weird comparison of sales of 4 wheelers with 2 wheelers? Going by your logic Hero MotoCorp should acquire Tesla since they sell millions of 2 wheelers per year for decades now. Heck the world largest EV manufacturer is BYD from China.
Going by your logic, are you buttressing that an entrepreneur like Musk with access to capital should not be allowed to invest in a promising company like Ola that was having trouble raising funds for capacity expansion, slowed down operations because demand was low while it also faced supply chain issues?

Applying the same logic, Musk should not have bought Twitter and must stay out of the space or telecom business too.

BYD why and what for has been beaten to death so I don't need any 'gyaan' about the company.
 

RoaringTigerHiddenDragon

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Barring metros and a few large state capital cities, most Indian cities are 20-30 kms from one end to the other and have basic traffic.

Tiago like cars are quite ok for urban commuting. Traffic crawls to about 10-15 kmph in most stretches of Bangalore and lower during peak traffic. Friend owns a Tiago EV and says he saves 8-9 rupees per km on his Tiago EV.

His daily commute averages 80-100 km every day in Bangalore but says mileage is lower than advertised at 160-170 per charge which is a little annoying. He uses his petrol car for out station trips.

Lower end Tesla will definitely be an attractive suitor for many provided it can perform well in Indian conditions.
Mileage is lower because of the tough road conditions in india with stop-and-go traffic. It is not the vehicle’s fault. If you constantly apply brakes, mileage will suffer.
 

another_armchair

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Mileage is lower because of the tough road conditions in india with stop-and-go traffic. It is not the vehicle’s fault. If you constantly apply brakes, mileage will suffer.
The Tiago is known to give a mileage of 160-180 km per charge in typical Indian traffic conditions. ... but the response is a typical 'expectation vs reality' realisation and coping with it.

Anyways, it fits his needs for the time being and saving big on petrol.
 

Haldilal

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Ya'll Nibbiars The Bengal Clocks 25,000 crore Investment on Day one if the Invetsment Summits and this is not just Imaginery Invetsment but actual one that are already in tje Perperations. And 80 percent of those is from the RIL who is going for a Majir Re5ail expansion and Petroleum retail expanaion in the W.B.

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