Indian Army wants futuristic vehicle for its Armoured corps

[Bhadra]

To Understand "Hadkamp" at DRDO due to RFI Read This :

Army's Future Main Battle Tank (FMBT) project likely to be delayed
By Biswarup Gooptu, ET Bureau | 7 Jul, 2011, 07.42AM IST


BANGALORE: Army's futuristic tank programme is likely to be delayed, with the military still procrastinating over its requirements, more than six months after it was scheduled to hand it over to the country's defence research establishment. The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is yet to receive a critical document listing the Army's technological and combat wish list for its Future Main Battle Tank (FMBT).

The DRDO was keen on finalising the design for the ambitious project by 2013. No indications have been provided by the Army as to when it will hand over the Preliminary Specifications Qualitative Requirements (PSQR), which is seen as a sanction to kick-start development activities on the FMBT. "The draft PSQR finalised by a former DGM is now being refined by the newly-appointed DGM. Nothing has been finalised yet, and we have not even started any discussions on it," said P Sivakumar, director of Combat Vehicles Research and Development Establishment.


The document, which is expected to provide a clear technological roadmap of the country's much-vaunted next generation battle tank by broadly listing its main features, is the precursor to the General Staff Qualitative Requirement (GSQR) document, which in turn, details its exact features. Due to the delay, drafting the GSQR document would go beyond the year 2012-13

In September 2010, the CVRDE director had told ET that the Director-General of the Army's Mechanised Forces has communicated that the PSQR would be sent to the DRDO by December last year, once the army gets the necessary feedback from its various divisions relating to the FMBT. In order to ensure that it hits the ground running as and when it receives the green-light from the Army, the DRDO has decided to start work on the tank project based on the previous draft PSQR. " "We are working on the design, based on the draft PSQR. But unless we get a clear confirmation, we will not be able to start action on the development side," Sivakumar said.


The design and development of the FMBT has been conceived under a rather tight timeline set by the Army. The DRDO has been told that it will have to finalise its design activities by 2013.

The country's military, which has projected a need for about 1,200 FMBTs, has indicated in no uncertain terms that it expects the tank to go into production by 2020. Initial development costs for the project, which is seen as crucial for the country's future battle readiness, has been estimated at R ..

The country's military, which has projected a need for about 1,200 FMBTs, has indicated in no uncertain terms that it expects the tank to go into production by 2020. Initial development costs for the project, which is seen as crucial for the country's future battle readiness, has been estimated at Rs 1,500-crore.

The Indian Army's desperate need for stateof-the-art tanks has been well documented, with a significant portion of its 4,000-strong fleet populated by largely obsolete, nightblind Russian-made T-72 tanks, which have been in service for more than 30 years.

Its battles with the DRDO, marked by the Army's reluctance to induct the Arjun Main Battle Tank, have only recently subsided after the country's first indigenously-built tank comprehensively outperformed its current showpiece, the T-90, in war-games conducted last year. Sivakumar rubbished claims that the FMBT programme was to be shelved, and hence the delays by the Army. "It will definitely not be shelved, because there is a critical requirement," he said.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/9132824.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

--------------------------------------------------------------------

@ The article is of 2011. If that was the state of confusion in 2011 and it has not been overcome till 2015 then what is the state of affairs ? Fix the culprit ..

@ In the name of critical requirement CRVD did not present any design and wanted to thrust Arjun Mark II down the throat of IA to replace T-72 family vehicles - that is conspiracy effecting national Defence..

@ DRDO was to finalise design by 2013 but nothing has come by 2015. Why did they not present a design ?

@ Who has been funding FMBT and who provided specifications for it ? How can DRDO do it on their own> There should be investigations into this !

@ The DGMF then issues RFI in 2015 - and there is "Hadkamp" in DRDO Camp ... invoking SA to RM, MoD, Govt Of India, RM , MP Mody.. in this forum .. what not and what not ?

@ It is quite clear DRDO ? CVRDE have hidden agenda and want the IA to go down the drain in future battle which is more likely than least likely.

@ If I were to be Tank commander in future battle, I will sling one DODO right in front of the Arjun and then go into the battle.

 

[Bhadra]

Biased Reporting by Ajay Shukla: But Understand the Background to RFI
​

Antony MISLED Parliament on India's next-gen battle tank!

Ajai Shuklain New Delhi
​

http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-sh...n-india-s-next-gen-battle-tank/20120102.htm#5


India's Future Main Battle Tank, the backbone of the army's strike power into the mid-21st century, languishes while the army continues an extended debate over its specifications.



A year ago, on Dec 6, 2010, Defence Minister A K Antony told the Lok Sabha that the army had formulated the FMBT's specifications and the Defence R&D Organisation (DRDO) was carrying out feasibility studies.

Antony, it now emerges, misled parliament.

MoD sources say the army remains undecided about the basic features of the FMBT, including whether it should have three crew members or four. Consequently the army has not finalised the FMBT's Preliminary Staff Qualitative Requirements (PSQR), essential for sanctioning the project and allocating funding.


The PSQR also allows engineers to begin designing the FMBT. It specifies the tank's capabilities and components, including its weight; dimensions; mobility; weaponry; armour protection; communications; and any special capabilities that are required, e.g. the ability to drive underwater; or operate on a nuclear battlefield.



But the DRDO has begun work, anxious to shield the FMBT from the delays that plagued the Arjun programme. The FMBT must roll out by 2020, when the army's oldest T-72 tanks, which entered service in 1979, complete their 32-year service lives.

Business Standard was granted exclusive permission to visit the Combat Vehicles R&D Establishment (CVRDE), the DRDO facility outside Chennai where the Arjun Mark II is nearing completion; and the FMBT will be developed.



Dr P Sivakumar, CVRDE's livewire director, revealed that work has begun on crucial FMBT systems, even without a PSQR. Based on the army's weight limit of 50 tonnes for the FMBT, the DRDO has launched a "mission mode" project to develop an 1800 Horse Power indigenous engine. Sivakumar says that 1500 HP is sufficient for a 50-tonne tank, but the endemic danger of weight over-runs in a new tank makes a 300 HP margin prudent.


The project will co-opt domestic engineering companies like Kirloskar Oil Engines, Bharat Earth Movers Ltd (BEML), and the Mahindras; research institutions like IITs; and bodies like the Automotive Research Association of India (ARIA), Pune.

An Indian "prime contractor" would assemble the FMBT engines from engine components supplied by a network of sub-contractors.

"India has never designed engines; engine technology has always been imported. But we will develop the FMBT engine as a national project. Our approach is not engine-specific; we are looking at developing the complete range of technologies needed for building engines. Not only design... but also manufacturing, testing, evaluation," says Sivakumar.

This ambitious plan is cushioned with pragmatism. The DRDO has brought in international consultants to design the engine and build Indian manufacturing capability in engine-related fields.

Sivakumar says that German companies MTU and Renk, which supply engines and transmissions for the Arjun tank, refused to provide consultancy, realising that building Indian capability would end their market here. DRDO is now evaluating consultancy proposals from Ricardo of Britain and AVL of Austria.

"Simultaneously, we have floated an Expression of Interest (EoI) to identify an Indian manufacturing partner. The consultant we select will work in a consortium with the DRDO; the army; and the Indian manufacturing partner, who will be associated with the programme from the design stage itself.

We have allowed the consultants to visit manufacturing companies and report on their capability to build a modern engine," explains Sivakumar.

The CVRDE director says that the consultants will finalise the engine design within 12 months, and take 18 months more to build the first prototype. "Within 30 months, or three years maximum, the first engine would be ready for testing," he says.

"Both Ricardo and AVL have proposed that they design and build the first prototypes. But the Indian industry will work alongside the consultant. The first design is never perfect; so the consultant will make the changes needed in design, tolerances, or materials to refine the engine. Then, in the second phase, the Indian partner will produce the engine," says Sivakumar.

Even as CVRDE develops this technological capacity, it is looking further ahead at a hybrid engine for the FMBT after 2030.

Sivakumar says that a tank remains static for at least 40% of the time in battle, during which time its engine idles.

"This means that 40% of the time, you wastefully run a 1500 HP engine, guzzling diesel and giving away the tank's position, while you need very little power for running electricals like the radios and gun control equipment or for moving the tank slowly.

So we are evolving a hybrid technology concept in which the tank will have two engines: a 500 HP engine for low power mode and another 1000 HP engine that kicks in when high power is required, e.g. for manoeuvring in battle," explains the CVRDE director.

____________________________________________

Two things :

* CRVDE Director Shiva Kumar has been undercutting the DGMF and playing a General and thrusting things down the throat of IA.
* Ajay Shukla is trying his best to be the voice and influencer, lobbyist and pressure group and middleman like Burqa Dutt, on "Armour" / "Mechanised "of Indian Army by aligning and realigning, falsehood, fabrications and influence.

* What a dangerous world..
​

 

[ersakthivel]

Army invites proposals for building FRCV tanks, DRDO surprised
​

By PTI | 26 Jun, 2015, 04.59PM IST


http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/47830259.cms?cfmid=11001088&utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppstat:


NEW DELHI: Intending to replace the Soviet- origin T-72 tanks, the Army has invited proposals from domestic and foreign firms for designing a 'Future Ready Combat Vehicle', significantly at a time when DRDO is already working on such a project.

The Army has issued a Request for Information (RFI) inviting responses from companies by July 31 to design the vehicle which will form the "base platform for the Main Battle Tank which is planned to replace the existing T-72 tanks in the Armoured corps..
The RFI is open to both domestic and international firms. According to the Army, the best design will be chosen and given to nominated developing agency for production of the prototypes.

The selected prototype will be given to production agency, which could be a domestic firm, for bulk production, defence sources said.

"The FRCV (Future Ready Combat Vehicle) is planned to be a design and development project, to be executed in three stages - design stage, prototype development stage and production stage," it said.

The RFI added that a 'Future' Combat Platform design must cater for 'future' battlefield environment and technological possibilities.

To address the future battlefield scenario and the envisaged force profile in the coming years, the FRCV needs to be developed on a modular concept with a high degree of flexibility in a manner that, as a tank platform, it can address the varying requirements of different terrain configurations, it said.


At the same time it can provide the base on which a 'Family of Vehicles', catering to the operational needs of various arms of the Army, can be developed.

The move is significant as the country's premier defence research agency DRDO is already working on technology for a futuristic tank - Future Main Battle Tank (FMBT).

The Army has earlier been at loggerheads with the DRDO over the Arjun tank that it had developed.

Asked about Army's RFI, Director of DRDO's Combat Vehicles Research & Development Establishment (CVRDE), which is working on the FMBT, told PTI, "We have a long-term perspective plan from the Army. We are working on the technology development and will continue with it".

DRDO officials expressed surprise over Army's RFI and are wondering why it was issued when it is already working on it.

They are hoping that the Ministry of Defence, which has been pushing for 'Make in India', will look into the issue.

A senior official noted, "DRDO has been doing well with the Air Force and the Navy but always hits a roadblock when it comes to the Army".

Meanwhile, defence sources maintained that the RFI is open to all and even the DRDO can take part.

They added that the idea behind the move is that the Army gets to know the various design options that are available based on which a final selection can be made

____________________________________________________________

So this Rudali Choir on DFI and elsewhere is planned and paid for. DRDO's psychological attack though is unreasonable and full of Noise but the Signal is not being missed out. - DRDO Signal - that they will sabotage the RFI and finally sabotage the security of the country..


ANOTHER INSAS FRAUD IN THE MAKING

Tell me how many tank makers have agreed to abide by RFI guidelines of signing away all their IP rights of their ten year work on FRCV to the sole custodian DGMF of IA?

This is the original rudali chor of an RFI being used in a deviant manner to scuttle giving immediate GSQR for FMBT to CVRDE,

DO you know what kind of BS this RFI is?

It is like a corporate house asking all the producers of super computers in the world to "design , develop a world best super computer and sign away all their IP rights to the company ".


Just a couple of months back dassault even refused to transfer TOT and hold their original price for rafales which led to wholesale cancellation of MMRCA.

Now these DGMF corporate head honchos expect, reputed MNC tank makers who are the guardians of the most secretive tech in the world to to give TOT and sole rights to them after working for prize money!!!

DO they really expect that the home countries where these tank makers operate will permit such contract labor leading to all TOT and sole IP rights to be vested in the hands of IA?

How senile people can get in DGMF?

Suzuki refused to transfer the gear box tech for the "famed maruthi 800" for decades!!! , preferring to import them from japan saying that it cant be made here, until the full control of the company passed into their hands.

that is the situation regarding a simple gear box tech of the worlds cheapest model car being fiercely guarded for decades!!!

Now IA wants to own the world's most modern tank tech just for prize money!!!!

begging, perhaps?

Much worse the DGMF doesn't even know what price money to fix!!! They are asking the vendors to state the prize money also!!!

Only fully baked retards can expect the world's top of the line tank makers to gift away their much guarded IP rights to DGMF for a prize money!!!

 

[ersakthivel]

What Does IA Want ? Is that the Question ?​

Friday, May 14, 2010
EXCLUSIVE: India's Future Main Battle Tank (FMBT)

http://www.livefistdefence.com/2010/05/exclusive-indias-future-main-battle.html

The Indian Army is still juggling concepts of precisely what it wants from its Future Main Battle Tank (FMBT), but information shared with LiveFist provides a rare broad glimpse into work very much in progress as far as qualitative requirements for the future platform go. The Army's FMBT wish-list, in no particular order follows.

The Army insists that stealth be built into the FMBT from the ground up -- including paints/materials to provide limited invisibility in IR/visible spectrum and for scrambling and avoidance of detection.

The Indian Army wants the tank to have an Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) system "to obviate chances of own tanks firing at each other in battle",

and a whole new reliable and secure mobile communication system capable of data transmission, audio and video conference.

Protection in the form of soft-kill system requires IR detectors, laser warning, radar warning and devices to instantaneously integrate these signals and control a countermeasure suite. Such systems are threat specific so all would have to be carried on a vehicle to gain protection against more than one part of the EM threat spectrum.

The new tank necessarily needs to espouse hybrid electric vehicle technology and incorporate digital vehicle electronics (vetronics) to provide intra-vehicle and inter-vehicle communication capability that will greatly improve sit awareness and enhance operational effectiveness.

For mobility, in order to achieve ‘extraordinary’ acceleration, the Army observes that it is necessary to couple the conventional diesel engine of the proposed tank to a turbine. The ‘Hyberbar’ engine will be able to accelerate from zero to full power at 1,500 hp in 2.8 seconds, while a conventional diesel engine requires 8-12 seconds. The quest for more compact power pack has led to renewed interest in gas turbines, which needs to be explored, the Army feels.

The Army wants an active suspension system with sensors, control units, and a hydraulic power source in combination, to automatically alter the suspension characteristics to more closely match the speed of the vehicle and the terrain profile, especially in Indian terrain conditions.

The Army has always held the view that signature management was almost completely ignored in the development of the Arjun. The Army hopes that lesson has been learnt now. Current and expected future threat scenarios require signature management measures of a multi spectral type, and they require an extremely short reaction time. The Army says it requires signature management in design measures, basic camouflage, additional camouflage and temporary camouflage.

Explosive Reactive Armour Now! The Army points out that the main battlefield threats against tanks are Anti Tank Guided Missile (ATGMs), unguided anti tank rockets and grenades; shaped charge High Explosive Anti Tank (HEAT) gun rounds; Kinetic Energy (KE) gun rounds; and top-attack weapons like intelligent sub-munitions, terminally guided artillery rounds, etc. There is a need for developing Explosive Reactive Armour (ERA). Given optimised designs, integrated ERA offers tanks highly effective protection against both the penetrators of Armoured Piercing Fin Stabilised Discarding Sabot (APFSDS) projectiles and the jets of shaped charge weapons, including those with tandem warheads.

The Army says it wants a high-performance armour system on its FMBT with advanced materials incorporating the following qualities (a) Reduced penetration by most lethal weapons, (b) Elimination of parasitic mass leading to a weight reduction, (c) Excellent corrosion resistance, (d) Inherent thermal and acoustic insulation properties.

The Army has stressed that the FMBT needs Infra Red (IR) detectors, target identification systems, laser warning systems, radar warning receivers and devices to coordinate their signal and instantaneously control a countermeasures suite. These countermeasures fall into two categories: soft-kill system and hard-kill system. The soft kill sensors must discriminate true and false targets and they must discriminate between missiles or other rounds that threaten the vehicle being protected and those that will miss or are aimed at other targets.

The Army wants an Automatic Protection Systems (APS) on the FMBT. The radar should determine threat levels adequately, and the self-defence rockets should not cause high levels of collateral damage, particularly to accompanying dismounted infantry.

Of course, weapons. Conventional tube weapons are the product of a mature technology, and have now reached a high level of performance. However, on account of the gas-dynamic processes of thermally transformed powder, the muzzle velocity of projectiles is theoretically limited to approximately 2,300 m/s. Contemporary tank guns still offer a considerable growth potential, and electronic guns will be able to exceed this and become an attractive proposition. Tank-fired missiles, which carry shaped-charge warheads, were susceptible to various countermeasures, especially reactive armour. The Army says it is reasonable to expect development of high velocity KE missiles with heavy-metal, long-rod penetrators to defeat current and future tanks both within and beyond line of sight. Such extended-range missiles would enable armoured vehicles to engage targets beyond the direct fire zone. The high/medium-energy level (100 kJ) vehicle-mounted laser is expected to be a lethality option against rockets, air vehicles, light ground vehicles, antennas of armoured vehicles and electro-optical sensors. Hard-kill system to provide full-spectrum defence against top attack weapons, ATGMs, guided missiles and gun-launched KE and HEAT rounds.

Fire Control System (FCS): Ground sensors, non-line-of-sight launch system and the network capability will enhance soldiers’ understanding of their situation in dynamic battlefield conditions by promoting a common perspective of enemy and friendly locations on digital maps and provide timely actionable intelligence.

Very importantly, the Army has stressed that there is a need to manufacture modern simulators using lasers, micro-processors and magnetic tapes, thereby creating near actual combat conditions during training. Development of driving, gunnery and tactical simulators.

What Does IA Want ? Is that the Question ?​

Friday, May 14, 2010
EXCLUSIVE: India's Future Main Battle Tank (FMBT)

http://www.livefistdefence.com/2010/05/exclusive-indias-future-main-battle.html

The Indian Army is still juggling concepts of precisely what it wants from its Future Main Battle Tank (FMBT), but information shared with LiveFist provides a rare broad glimpse into work very much in progress as far as qualitative requirements for the future platform go. The Army's FMBT wish-list, in no particular order follows.

The Army insists that stealth be built into the FMBT from the ground up -- including paints/materials to provide limited invisibility in IR/visible spectrum and for scrambling and avoidance of detection.

The Indian Army wants the tank to have an Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) system "to obviate chances of own tanks firing at each other in battle",

and a whole new reliable and secure mobile communication system capable of data transmission, audio and video conference.

Protection in the form of soft-kill system requires IR detectors, laser warning, radar warning and devices to instantaneously integrate these signals and control a countermeasure suite. Such systems are threat specific so all would have to be carried on a vehicle to gain protection against more than one part of the EM threat spectrum.

The new tank necessarily needs to espouse hybrid electric vehicle technology and incorporate digital vehicle electronics (vetronics) to provide intra-vehicle and inter-vehicle communication capability that will greatly improve sit awareness and enhance operational effectiveness.

For mobility, in order to achieve ‘extraordinary’ acceleration, the Army observes that it is necessary to couple the conventional diesel engine of the proposed tank to a turbine. The ‘Hyberbar’ engine will be able to accelerate from zero to full power at 1,500 hp in 2.8 seconds, while a conventional diesel engine requires 8-12 seconds. The quest for more compact power pack has led to renewed interest in gas turbines, which needs to be explored, the Army feels.

The Army wants an active suspension system with sensors, control units, and a hydraulic power source in combination, to automatically alter the suspension characteristics to more closely match the speed of the vehicle and the terrain profile, especially in Indian terrain conditions.

The Army has always held the view that signature management was almost completely ignored in the development of the Arjun. The Army hopes that lesson has been learnt now. Current and expected future threat scenarios require signature management measures of a multi spectral type, and they require an extremely short reaction time. The Army says it requires signature management in design measures, basic camouflage, additional camouflage and temporary camouflage.

Explosive Reactive Armour Now! The Army points out that the main battlefield threats against tanks are Anti Tank Guided Missile (ATGMs), unguided anti tank rockets and grenades; shaped charge High Explosive Anti Tank (HEAT) gun rounds; Kinetic Energy (KE) gun rounds; and top-attack weapons like intelligent sub-munitions, terminally guided artillery rounds, etc. There is a need for developing Explosive Reactive Armour (ERA). Given optimised designs, integrated ERA offers tanks highly effective protection against both the penetrators of Armoured Piercing Fin Stabilised Discarding Sabot (APFSDS) projectiles and the jets of shaped charge weapons, including those with tandem warheads.

The Army says it wants a high-performance armour system on its FMBT with advanced materials incorporating the following qualities (a) Reduced penetration by most lethal weapons, (b) Elimination of parasitic mass leading to a weight reduction, (c) Excellent corrosion resistance, (d) Inherent thermal and acoustic insulation properties.

The Army has stressed that the FMBT needs Infra Red (IR) detectors, target identification systems, laser warning systems, radar warning receivers and devices to coordinate their signal and instantaneously control a countermeasures suite. These countermeasures fall into two categories: soft-kill system and hard-kill system. The soft kill sensors must discriminate true and false targets and they must discriminate between missiles or other rounds that threaten the vehicle being protected and those that will miss or are aimed at other targets.

The Army wants an Automatic Protection Systems (APS) on the FMBT. The radar should determine threat levels adequately, and the self-defence rockets should not cause high levels of collateral damage, particularly to accompanying dismounted infantry.

Of course, weapons. Conventional tube weapons are the product of a mature technology, and have now reached a high level of performance. However, on account of the gas-dynamic processes of thermally transformed powder, the muzzle velocity of projectiles is theoretically limited to approximately 2,300 m/s. Contemporary tank guns still offer a considerable growth potential, and electronic guns will be able to exceed this and become an attractive proposition. Tank-fired missiles, which carry shaped-charge warheads, were susceptible to various countermeasures, especially reactive armour. The Army says it is reasonable to expect development of high velocity KE missiles with heavy-metal, long-rod penetrators to defeat current and future tanks both within and beyond line of sight. Such extended-range missiles would enable armoured vehicles to engage targets beyond the direct fire zone. The high/medium-energy level (100 kJ) vehicle-mounted laser is expected to be a lethality option against rockets, air vehicles, light ground vehicles, antennas of armoured vehicles and electro-optical sensors. Hard-kill system to provide full-spectrum defence against top attack weapons, ATGMs, guided missiles and gun-launched KE and HEAT rounds.

Fire Control System (FCS): Ground sensors, non-line-of-sight launch system and the network capability will enhance soldiers’ understanding of their situation in dynamic battlefield conditions by promoting a common perspective of enemy and friendly locations on digital maps and provide timely actionable intelligence.

Very importantly, the Army has stressed that there is a need to manufacture modern simulators using lasers, micro-processors and magnetic tapes, thereby creating near actual combat conditions during training. Development of driving, gunnery and tactical simulators.

The jackass who wrote this piece in LIVEFIST doesn't even know to correctly spell,"Active protection System"!!!! He is blabbering it as "Automatic Protection System".

Even a fool would not dare to quote such articles.

The article is just a baby talk of the dreaming DGMF , like hybrid vehicles, with no grounding in reality!!!

 

[ersakthivel]

To Understand "Hadkamp" at DRDO due to RFI Read This :

Army's Future Main Battle Tank (FMBT) project likely to be delayed
By Biswarup Gooptu, ET Bureau | 7 Jul, 2011, 07.42AM IST


BANGALORE: Army's futuristic tank programme is likely to be delayed, with the military still procrastinating over its requirements, more than six months after it was scheduled to hand it over to the country's defence research establishment. The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is yet to receive a critical document listing the Army's technological and combat wish list for its Future Main Battle Tank (FMBT).

The DRDO was keen on finalising the design for the ambitious project by 2013. No indications have been provided by the Army as to when it will hand over the Preliminary Specifications Qualitative Requirements (PSQR), which is seen as a sanction to kick-start development activities on the FMBT. "The draft PSQR finalised by a former DGM is now being refined by the newly-appointed DGM. Nothing has been finalised yet, and we have not even started any discussions on it," said P Sivakumar, director of Combat Vehicles Research and Development Establishment.


The document, which is expected to provide a clear technological roadmap of the country's much-vaunted next generation battle tank by broadly listing its main features, is the precursor to the General Staff Qualitative Requirement (GSQR) document, which in turn, details its exact features. Due to the delay, drafting the GSQR document would go beyond the year 2012-13

In September 2010, the CVRDE director had told ET that the Director-General of the Army's Mechanised Forces has communicated that the PSQR would be sent to the DRDO by December last year, once the army gets the necessary feedback from its various divisions relating to the FMBT. In order to ensure that it hits the ground running as and when it receives the green-light from the Army, the DRDO has decided to start work on the tank project based on the previous draft PSQR. " "We are working on the design, based on the draft PSQR. But unless we get a clear confirmation, we will not be able to start action on the development side," Sivakumar said.


The design and development of the FMBT has been conceived under a rather tight timeline set by the Army. The DRDO has been told that it will have to finalise its design activities by 2013.

The country's military, which has projected a need for about 1,200 FMBTs, has indicated in no uncertain terms that it expects the tank to go into production by 2020. Initial development costs for the project, which is seen as crucial for the country's future battle readiness, has been estimated at R ..

The country's military, which has projected a need for about 1,200 FMBTs, has indicated in no uncertain terms that it expects the tank to go into production by 2020. Initial development costs for the project, which is seen as crucial for the country's future battle readiness, has been estimated at Rs 1,500-crore.

The Indian Army's desperate need for stateof-the-art tanks has been well documented, with a significant portion of its 4,000-strong fleet populated by largely obsolete, nightblind Russian-made T-72 tanks, which have been in service for more than 30 years.

Its battles with the DRDO, marked by the Army's reluctance to induct the Arjun Main Battle Tank, have only recently subsided after the country's first indigenously-built tank comprehensively outperformed its current showpiece, the T-90, in war-games conducted last year. Sivakumar rubbished claims that the FMBT programme was to be shelved, and hence the delays by the Army. "It will definitely not be shelved, because there is a critical requirement," he said.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/9132824.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

--------------------------------------------------------------------

@ The article is of 2011. If that was the state of confusion in 2011 and it has not been overcome till 2015 then what is the state of affairs ? Fix the culprit ..

@ In the name of critical requirement CRVD did not present any design and wanted to thrust Arjun Mark II down the throat of IA to replace T-72 family vehicles - that is conspiracy effecting national Defence..

@ DRDO was to finalise design by 2013 but nothing has come by 2015. Why did they not present a design ?

@ Who has been funding FMBT and who provided specifications for it ? How can DRDO do it on their own> There should be investigations into this !

@ The DGMF then issues RFI in 2015 - and there is "Hadkamp" in DRDO Camp ... invoking SA to RM, MoD, Govt Of India, RM , MP Mody.. in this forum .. what not and what not ?

@ It is quite clear DRDO ? CVRDE have hidden agenda and want the IA to go down the drain in future battle which is more likely than least likely.

@ If I were to be Tank commander in future battle, I will sling one DODO right in front of the Arjun and then go into the battle.

A perfectly wrong diagnosis from a perfectly written article.
1. From 2011 to this day on 2015 The DGMF "FAILED BIGTIME" in giving even a relevant PSQR!!!

Now you are blaming CVRDE for that!!!!

Let me tell you the real reason for the delay.

They have the capability to give a perfectly valid PSQR for a tank that is perfectly suited to indian soil conditions as devine heretic posted here.

But they purposely didn't do that under UPA regime.

They waited for the debut of Armata.

After seeing Armata violating many of the basic specs of their PSQR (they surely must have a very detailed study on that. I dont expect IA to sit idling on a PSQR for five years without doing any study) they just tore it to pieces and asked the vendors to suggest GSQR, prize money etc etc in this BS called RFI for FRCV!!!!

So this is the hidden agenda of DGMF being stoutly defended by you. CVRDE has no hiden agenda, they have simply started some preliminary design work on the previous PSQR given by DGMF, Nothing wrong with that.


I pray to God almighty that folks like you are not even allowed anywhere near an MBT,

The article is of 2011. If that was the state of confusion in 2011 and it has not been overcome till 2015 then what is the state of affairs ? Fix the culprit ..

The culprit is the DGMF which failed to give a PSQR for 5 years.

DRDO was to finalise design by 2013 but nothing has come by 2015. Why did they not present a design ?

DEsign can be finally frozen only a detailed GSQR is given by DGMF. But DGMF guys were waiting for Armata? So who do we blame?

The DGMF then issues RFI in 2015 - and there is "Hadkamp" in DRDO Camp ... invoking SA to RM, MoD, Govt Of India, RM , MP Mody.. in this forum .. what not and what not ?

What DGMF issues is not RFI. It is a blank sheet of paper asking the tank makers to propose the specs, prize money , do bonded labor for ten years and transfer the IP rights to DGMF!!!

It can best be used as toilet paper only!!!

If you know what is an RFI , go to google and learn something,

The DGMF then issues RFI in 2015 - and there is "Hadkamp" in DRDO Camp ... invoking SA to RM, MoD, Govt Of India, RM , MP Mody.. in this forum .. what not and what not ?

@ It is quite clear DRDO ? CVRDE have hidden agenda and want the IA to go down the drain in future battle which is more likely than least likely.

Once again what DGMF has issued is not an RFI. It is a blank paper. DO they need to plant their ass in the chairs of IA offices for five years to deliver this blank paper which asks the makers to give specs , define prize money etc, etc,?

SO it is natural for every one to ask DGMF ,"Give me the unfinished work on your PSQR , which you researched for 5 years from 2011 to 2015", Because it is a democratic country and DGMF folks were paid between 2011 and 2015 to give a precise GSQR,

SO it is natural for every one to see their 5 years work's worth on the unfinished PSQR of FMBT.

IF they didn't do any work on it. and just waited for Armata, under secret instruction from corrupt UPA boiss, which is precisely the case, then they can say it openly.

To be precise our DM can take this RFI as a resignation letter and fire the entire DGMF in a single GO.

" Who has been funding FMBT and who provided specifications for it ? How can DRDO do it on their own> There should be investigations into this !"

SO you want CVRDE to sit fiddling their thumbs doing nothing , exactly like the senile folks at DGMF did from 2011 to 2015 , waiting for Armata?

Is this how you want the country's security to be taken care of?

1Folks at DGMF should sleep soundly from 2011 to 2015 without even giving a PSQR.
2. Guys at CVRDE should sleep sound for the four years,!!!!

You should be made the next DM of UPA whenever they come to power again!!!!

 

[Bhadra]

@ersakthivel
your whole and sole argument is that DGMF waited for Armata to be out and then wrote the RFI -

RFI for a medium tank, below 50 tons, probably 40- 45 tons - clearly when Armata is almost 58 -60 tons. asking for a three - four men crew tank ..... when Armata is only three men crew tank ...

RFI has nothing specific to point on to Armata - it is only your holy scare .

Armata has scared you - so give them RFI of Armata and make it !

[censored] ....Lt us wait for responses to RFI.

It is very obvious now that CVRDE has been engaged in a conspiracy and will not be able to push down their version of tank down the throat of IA ..

 

[bose]

@ersakthivel
your whole and sole argument is that DGMF waited for Armata to be out and then wrote the RFI -

RFI for a medium tank, below 50 tons, probably 40- 45 tons - clearly when Armata is almost 58 -60 tons. asking for a three - four men crew tank ..... when Armata is only three men crew tank ...

RFI has nothing specific to point on to Armata - it is only your holy scare .

Armata has scared you - so give them RFI of Armata and make it !

Why this Rudali Brigade "Shyapa" ....Lt us wait for responses to RFI.

It is very obvious now that CVRDE has been engaged in a conspiracy and will not be able to push down their version of tank down the throat of IA ..

Sir, is there any 40 - 45 Tons tank in the world with a four man crew ?? with excellent armour ?

 

[Bhadra]

Sir, is there any 40 - 45 Tons tank in the world with a four man crew ?? with excellent armour ?

Well Sir, I believe those type of question, the designer will have to pose and ask that question to DGMF/ answer those in the modular design. From 50 tons to come down 5 tons would not be difficult with technologies / innovative design.

However, in this thread itself I have quoted US study on FCS which aims to make a 45 ton ton with best protection in the world. Read those.

Thirdly, Russians design tanks for their terrain. US design tanks for the worldwide contingencies.

Indians should design tanks for their western borders, Chinese border, for outside country contingencies and protection of Island territories.

Arjun I think is fat to meet all these requirements.

In tank designing there is battle between protection, mobility and firepower each effecting the other. So DGMF is trying to find a solution through design.

 

[Blood+]

And DRDO does not get any cuts in the imports it does? DRDO is pathetic and sooner we delink it from armed forces the better. Time to let the private partners to take up the manufacturing of defence equipment.

One good thing though is our. DM is fully aware of this problem and is very intent on fixing it. DRDO has cried wolf too many times to take them seriously any more

Hey listen you bloody piece of [censored]!!First learn to differentiate a development entity from a production house,you [censored]!!Since when DRDO started manufacturing something on a mass scale??Can you give even a single example you useless lump of [censored]??

 

[Blood+]

This is probably the silliest thing I have heard from you -armor protection being more important than logistics. Yeah fing right. We can fight a war with Pakis without taking Arjun to the battle fronts. Awesome idea. Let's keep them within our borders since we don't have logistic support for their operation in pak

So instead you would send your men to their certain deaths! - in the most horrifying and agonizing way possible.............that to burn their arses to death??!!Nice logic and reasoning you got here matey!!Bravo!!I just hope people in the DGMF are not as incompetent and as stupid as yourself.But judging by their actions so far (and why not??Most of them are [censored],who are not really known for their brains anyway)),they seem to be indeed as incompetent as you are!!

 

[Blood+]

Which again says the same thing I was saying already - its a moot point to bring out the Army imports when DRDO does the same when it is incompetent to produce the systems in home. All the more reason to call out DRDO incompetance

So you want DRDO to develop every nuts and bolts in country, knowing fully well at the same time that the end user has already made up its mind in scuttling the project!!And who's gonna arrange for the funds - your [censored]??Stop to think for a moment before you jump in to write your gibberish kiddo.

 

[Khagesh]

@ersakthivel
your whole and sole argument is that DGMF waited for Armata to be out and then wrote the RFI

Allow me.

If after 28 pages you still don't get it, then I can again drill it into you. That is not the sole argument. That is the sole allegation. There is a world of difference.

My pleasure.

This, is how an RFI is made for something that has to come into service 10 years hence. Please notice that half of it is about what is expected and the other half is to understand if the entity submitting it can deliver.
http://tenders.gov.in/viewtenddoc.asp?tid=del717833&wno=1&td=TD

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION (RFI) FOR CONSTRUCTION OF 06 NEXT GENERATION MISSILE VESSELS (NGMVs) FOR INDIAN NAVY

DGMF, if he has any shame left, should go and request tuition from the Indian Navy NDB.

 

[Bhadra]

Hallo @Khagesh

In this thread @sob has tried to reason out the differences in various RFI due to differences of purpose. But it seems you do not read the thread properly and you are in hurry to belittle my arguments.

I will again try to explain the same to you and others, if at all it is of some use.

The RFI you quoted :
http://tenders.gov.in/viewtenddoc.asp?tid=del717833&wno=1&td=TD

firstly it is published as a tender document. Secondly, it is meant to procure / construct a particular thing. I quote:

"The Ministry of Defence, Government of India, intends to procure 06 Next Generation Missile Vessels (NGMVs) class of ships under ‘Buy (Indian)/Buy and Make (Indian)’ category. ............ "

The DGMF RFI says :

"The Indian Army is planning to design and develop a new generation, state-of-the-art
combat vehicle platform for populating its Armoured Fighting Vehicle fleet in the coming
decade."

Bhai, aapke paon aparta hun, Sewa bolata hoon, Charan chhota hun ... Itna Julm mat karo. Auar apani panditai apane paas rakho.. kissi aur kaam aaiygi ... idhar forum men logon ka chutiya na banao.. itna jaalim na bano.. apane aap ko sambhalo ...

Dekho... saare DODO aap ki bewakoofi ko like karane lag paren hain... is ka matlab hai aap ko gadhe men dhaka diya ja rha hai .. aap chatur aur chatak lagate ho .. bewakoofon ke gang men mat shaamil hoyiye.. ye unionbazi nahin chalegi.. that is useless.

And yes, 28 pages of trash does not make "Geeta" ... convergence of opinion of hundreds is not truth or knowledge in this world where majority are fools unlike you.

Truth or knowledge is always alone ... that is the beauty of that phenomenon.. Mahrishi Vashist, Vaid Vyas, Balmiki, Vishmitra are not names of Unions but aloofness and individuality- individuality of shining knowledge


.

 

[Bhadra]

@Blood+

I do not think you know what is civility and a decent language ....

 

[pmaitra]

@Blood+

I do not think you know what is civility and a decent language ....

I have edited out expletives and name-calling from posts, by @Blood+ and by you. Going forward, let's keep this thread clean.

 

[pmaitra]

* CRVDE Director Shiva Kumar has been undercutting the DGMF and playing a General and thrusting things down the throat of IA.
​

A hybrid tank will most likely be a diesel electric tank, with batteries. A tank also spends a lot of time idling, and the videos from Syria prove that. A hybrid engine will not only save fuel, but will also make instant torque available. Moreover, for a tank to be able to creep without making noise, a hybrid engine is a benefit. The point about heat signature is also correct. CRVDE Director Shiva Kumar is correct. The DGMF should accept recommendations by CRVDE Director Shiva Kumar, or provide counter arguments with proper reasoning, because, apparently, the CRVDE Director Shiva Kumar knows a lot more about mechanized forces than the Director General of Mechanised Forces himself. Accusations of "thrusting things down the throat of IA" is a pathetic defence of the ignorance and incompetence of the DGMF and his accomplices.

* Ajay Shukla is trying his best to be the voice and influencer, lobbyist and pressure group and middleman like Burqa Dutt, on "Armour" / "Mechanised "of Indian Army by aligning and realigning, falsehood, fabrications and influence.

If you are so concerned with "falsehood" and "fabrications," first accept that you have been deliberately making false statements about railway wagons for transporting the Arjun tank. Even your supporter @Mad Indian asked you to counter the points, but you are hiding away from addressing those specific points.

* What a dangerous world..

Indeed.

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

An idea for 1500hp engine....
.
give project 75(i) to germans and get their technology of 1500hp engine..... Or a joint venture for it

 

[pmaitra]

An idea for 1500hp engine....
.
give project 75(i) to germans and get their technology of 1500hp engine..... Or a joint venture for it

I think our domestic manufacturers, like Tata Motors, Ashok Leyland, or even Mahindra, will be able to make one such engine.

 

[ezsasa]

I think our domestic manufacturers, like Tata Motors, Ashok Leyland, or even Mahindra, will be able to make one such engine.

Add Bharat forge to the list, it seems they also want to come into Engine design. as per the NDTV interview.

 

[Zebra]

All new Tankgate getting shape....................................!.....?



"Secret IndoRussian Tank T-14 ARMATA worries China and United States"

Published on May 3, 2015, by Bharat Swabhimaan

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

^^

I wonder if it is true, then "Bharat" is heading towards what kind of "Swabhimaan" though...!