Indian Army T- 90 (Bhishma) and T- 72 (M-1) Tanks

[Blood+]

Yes.. Now you do the same. Can't believe I'm having this conversation AGAIN,but with old members instead of snartass newbs!

God fucking damn it, man!! Get a proper spell check before you post your comment!! Anyway, the feeling is quite mutual and I'll come to why in a jiffy.

Here's you T-90 Arbour from front. The whole front is a 600mm odd weakspot.



View attachment 183361

I can not believe that I'm having this discussion with you of all people!! I mean, come on!! You blind or what??!!
According to your logic,

both of these lines in the above picture are of the same length, i.e ~650mm. See how absurd it all sounds from a simple geometric pov??

In actuality, this so-called 'weak spot' of yours spans a far.........FAR tinier section of the front turret than what you've made it out to be. The actual schematic should be more like this (and I'm likely exaggerating it but whatever) -

Meanwhile, your VT-4, enjoy -

Guess what, this entire section, (not that smaller an area than the weak spot in T-90A) has no special armor in there, just a thin layer of RHA!! Now, I know it's from ZTZ-99, but what's the difference anyway?? If anything, VT-4 has even thinner armor by comparison.

Which means

^ this entire section makes for an even worse weak spot than the one in T-90A!!
But wait, there is more -

You notice those hatches?? Those are the cavities for the mounting bolts, as can be seen down here -

This means, there are large hollow sections cut right into the armor cavities!! So, from certain angles, even the turret cheeks are weaker than they appear from the outside!!

On an unrelated note, the armor array inside the modules is likely arranged in this manner -

Oh, and it doesn't even end here, oh no!! Turns out, the LOS thickness across the frontal arc of the turret may not be as uniform and consistent as we had come to believe after all. Here's a drawing by @Wiedzmin from otvaga2004 site -

He noticed the obvious thing - the gunner's main sight is cutting into the armor cavity, thereby creating yet another HUGE weak spot in the right module on top of that hollowed-out space, and none of us here caught on to it, like a bunch of fucking retards!!

So all in all, that tiny little weak section in the T-90A front turret has almost the same effective LOS thickness (~650 mm) as the turret cheeks of your VT-4 (~700 mm)

continued below -

 

[Blood+]

Then there's this to consider...

Ok, let's see.

For a starter, that's a simulation of an Obj. 174M cast turret with simple NERA arrays as fillers (not properly modeled here but we'll come back to that later) that is more optimized against shaped charge than KE rounds. Anyway, it has got nothing to do with the T-90S/A, which has a completely different armor type but whatever. Now, to break it down further -

Firstly, As can be seen above, scenario 1 here simulates an M829 shot at a 60-degree oblique angle of attack, which is to say that it simulates a perfect side shot!! Obviously, the arrays were arranged against a frontal hit and didn't perform as intended, big shocker there.
So end result - now you know that NERA does not work when you shoot it at the angle where NERA does not work And that 250 mm of steel @ 90° won't stop M829! Congratulations.

But why does it even matter?? Swap out the T-72B with almost any other tank, both past and present, in this scenario and the result will be universally the same!! Take for example, your VT-4 -

As can be seen here, under the given parameters, the VT-4 will get smacked right in its side turret, which is made up of a thin RHA plate of thickness circa 80mm. So it will fare even worse compared to the T-72B, let alone the T-90A/S. But you didn't stop for a moment to consider this before posting that video link, did you??

As for T-90A/S, here's a picture from gurkhan's blog from a T-90A test rig against what was according to him, 3BM44M Lekalo rounds -

So we can almost say with certainty that, at least, the Russian version of the base armor of T-90A can absolutely resist the likes of M829 (a really old round at this point) and DM 43 even without the usual Kontakt-5 ERA modules.

Now, coming to scenario 2, while it is the most realistic one of the three, there are some discrepancies present in the way the armor arrays have been arranged and the behavior of the rod post pen.

About the armor layout, the flyer plates in the NERA are supposed to be HHS plates if we are to go by the available literature but here, they made them RHA instead, so obviously, it had a negative effect on the efficacy of the armor.

And as for the behavior of the dart, it's quite evident that they forgot to implement the effects of the yaw that'd be imparted on the rod as it pens through those layers of bulging flyer plates. This is to say that they failed to take into account any destabilizing effect of NERA elements on that dart as no yawing motion can be observed on the projectile as it passes through those different layers of armor.

To explain it in clearer terms -

As can be seen here, the dart pretty much continues on a straight path as if it was a laser beam or something, with those bulging plates seemingly having no effect on its trajectory whatsoever.

Whereas in actuality, it should have followed a path roughly similar to this instead -

But despite all that, in the end, the dart was still reduced to mere spalling, which could have been stopped with the addition of a spall liner.

I'm not going to delve into the third scenario as it was completely unrealistic.

Anyway, all this explanation was a plain waste of time on my part because all of this is completely invalidated by the mere fact that the Indian T-90S does not have this type of armor layout at all and Mr. @Bleh already is aware of this. So I fail to see the reasoning here.

PS - if the available literature is to be believed, the armor of the T-90S in Indian service more closely resembles polish CAWA-2 armor found in their PT-91 Twardy MBTs, which is made up of alternating layers of HHS and ceramic plates encased inside RHA front and back plates with a possible addition of NERA arrays but we are not entirely certain about the NERA part. And even if there is NERA added, it's never intended to be the primary element in the whole set up as was the case with T-72B turret armor in this simulation.

I hope this clears things up.

 

[WolfPack86]

AVANI To Begin Upgrading T-90S MBTs From 2023
India’s state-owned Armoured Vehicles Nigam Ltd’s (AVANI) Avadi-based Heavy Vehicles Factory (HVF) will from next year begin undertaking deep upgrades of the Indian Army’s (IA) Russia-supplied T-90S MBTs. The total number of 46-tonne T-90S MBTs planned for procurement is 1,657—a figure that was firmed up way back in 2007. To date, 640 units have been procured from Russia (both as off-the-shelf units and those in semi-knocked-down condition, while another 600 have been built under licence, with the final tranche of 417 now being built (for equipping 10 Armoured Regiments).

The IA now wants to upgrade its 640 T-90S (that came from Russia) through the installation of a new digital hunter-killer fire-control system developed by TATA Power SED, which will include an autotracker correction-input device and a related muzzle reference system. In addition, a locally-developed auxiliary power unit (APU) will be installed, as will laser warning receivers, new commander’s panoramic sight with thermal imager, an uprated powerpack, a thermal imager-equipped driver’s sight, and four see-through-armour situational awareness optronic sensors. But the IA has decided not to opt for active protection systems.

On November 9, 2020 the IA had awarded New Delhi-based premier defence start up OshoCorp Global a Rs.1.325 crore contract for the development and supply of APUs under the Make-II guidelines of the Ministry of Defence (MoD). Initially, OshoCorp Global is required to develop four APUs (two each for T-90S and T-72M) for trials and approval and subsequently produce 3,257 APUs.

The commander’s panoramic sight has been developed by the DRDO’s IRDE laboratory and it will be built by state-owned Bharat Electronics Ltd. The MoD has just inked a Rs.1,075 crore contract with BEL for supplying such sights for 957 T-90S MBTs. The IRDE has also developed the driver’s night sight, which will be bulk-produced by MKU Ltd as the Netro TD-5100.

The 1PM-96MT ESSA-3 gunner’s sight (containing the THALES-supplied Catherine-FC thermal imager) will be retained on the T-90S.

The uprated powerpack for the T-90S will be the A85-3AX-diesel engine capable of producing up to 1,500hp (although it is presently dowrated at 1,350hp) that will be ordered off-the-shelf from Russia’s Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant, located about 350km south of Nizhny Tagil. This in turn will result in the T-90S’ power-to-weight ratio being hiked to 24hp/tonne. The 46-tonne T-90S (Ob’yekt 188S) are each powered by a 1,000hp V-92S2 diesel engine that deliver a power-to-weight ratio of 21.5hp/tonne.

AVANI To Begin Upgrading T-90S MBTs From 2023

India’s state-owned Armoured Vehicles Nigam Ltd’s (AVANI) Avadi-based Heavy Vehicles Factory (HVF) will from next year begin undertaking dee...

trishul-trident.blogspot.com

 

[Blood+]

AVANI To Begin Upgrading T-90S MBTs From 2023
India’s state-owned Armoured Vehicles Nigam Ltd’s (AVANI) Avadi-based Heavy Vehicles Factory (HVF) will from next year begin undertaking deep upgrades of the Indian Army’s (IA) Russia-supplied T-90S MBTs. The total number of 46-tonne T-90S MBTs planned for procurement is 1,657—a figure that was firmed up way back in 2007. To date, 640 units have been procured from Russia (both as off-the-shelf units and those in semi-knocked-down condition, while another 600 have been built under licence, with the final tranche of 417 now being built (for equipping 10 Armoured Regiments).

The IA now wants to upgrade its 640 T-90S (that came from Russia) through the installation of a new digital hunter-killer fire-control system developed by TATA Power SED, which will include an autotracker correction-input device and a related muzzle reference system. In addition, a locally-developed auxiliary power unit (APU) will be installed, as will laser warning receivers, new commander’s panoramic sight with thermal imager, an uprated powerpack, a thermal imager-equipped driver’s sight, and four see-through-armour situational awareness optronic sensors. But the IA has decided not to opt for active protection systems.

On November 9, 2020 the IA had awarded New Delhi-based premier defence start up OshoCorp Global a Rs.1.325 crore contract for the development and supply of APUs under the Make-II guidelines of the Ministry of Defence (MoD). Initially, OshoCorp Global is required to develop four APUs (two each for T-90S and T-72M) for trials and approval and subsequently produce 3,257 APUs.

The commander’s panoramic sight has been developed by the DRDO’s IRDE laboratory and it will be built by state-owned Bharat Electronics Ltd. The MoD has just inked a Rs.1,075 crore contract with BEL for supplying such sights for 957 T-90S MBTs. The IRDE has also developed the driver’s night sight, which will be bulk-produced by MKU Ltd as the Netro TD-5100.

The 1PM-96MT ESSA-3 gunner’s sight (containing the THALES-supplied Catherine-FC thermal imager) will be retained on the T-90S.

The uprated powerpack for the T-90S will be the A85-3AX-diesel engine capable of producing up to 1,500hp (although it is presently dowrated at 1,350hp) that will be ordered off-the-shelf from Russia’s Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant, located about 350km south of Nizhny Tagil. This in turn will result in the T-90S’ power-to-weight ratio being hiked to 24hp/tonne. The 46-tonne T-90S (Ob’yekt 188S) are each powered by a 1,000hp V-92S2 diesel engine that deliver a power-to-weight ratio of 21.5hp/tonne.

AVANI To Begin Upgrading T-90S MBTs From 2023

India’s state-owned Armoured Vehicles Nigam Ltd’s (AVANI) Avadi-based Heavy Vehicles Factory (HVF) will from next year begin undertaking dee...

trishul-trident.blogspot.com

Not at all impressive.

 

[STORE]

 

[Corvus Splendens]

ex-Polish T-72 with Kontakt-1 tanking APDS in Ukraine

 

[vidhwanshak]

 

[JBH22]

What statement he needs?
These buggers sometime behave as if they were riding in M1abrams or leopard it would be invicible.They want zero casualty war. Check Houthis and Northern syria what happened to those uber 'western' tanks.

 

[vishnugupt]

What statement he needs?
These buggers sometime behave as if they were riding in M1abrams or leopard it would be invicible.They want zero casualty war. Check Houthis and Northern syria what happened to those uber 'western' tanks.

No no.... You misunderstood
They want explanation from Muddi as they suspect Tank is Indian version of T-90.

Gl0b0h0m0s want to frame India as collaborators of Ukraine war.

But Honestly this wouldn't be a bad Idea if Russia test Indian version of T-90 in the field. Must know the real battle capabilities.

 

[Akim]

US considering transfer of M2 Bradley IFVs to Ukraine – Biden
https://mil.in.ua/en/news/us-considering-transfer-of-m2-bradley-ifv-to-ukraine-biden/
For me, the presence of lightly armored vehicles is more important than additional tanks.

 

[Love Charger]

US considering transfer of M2 Bradley IFVs to Ukraine – Biden
https://mil.in.ua/en/news/us-considering-transfer-of-m2-bradley-ifv-to-ukraine-biden/
For me, the presence of lightly armored vehicles is more important than additional tanks.

Why ? A tank has a bigger gun and can fire a atgm .too.

 

[Akim]

Why ? A tank has a bigger gun and can fire a atgm .too.

I'm sorry. Wrong topic. Mods please del.

 

[WarmongerLSK]

What statement he needs?
These buggers sometime behave as if they were riding in M1abrams or leopard it would be invicible.They want zero casualty war. Check Houthis and Northern syria what happened to those uber 'western' tanks.

He is suggesting the T-90 could be Indian. Some other westoid journo also suggested same but someone clarified on twitter ki its T-90AM or something else and not Indian.

 

[binayak95]

What statement he needs?
These buggers sometime behave as if they were riding in M1abrams or leopard it would be invicible.They want zero casualty war. Check Houthis and Northern syria what happened to those uber 'western' tanks.

Its an Indian tank sent to russia for oem verificiation of mods done here. Fuckers pawned it and then got it blown up

 

[Love Charger]

I'm sorry. Wrong topic. Mods please del.

No no it's absolutely right place, you should get out of ukriane thread too and contribute at other threads also
Again why you think light armoured vehicles are more advantageous to tanks ?

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Its an Indian tank sent to russia for oem verificiation of mods done here. Fuckers pawned it and then got it blown up

Russians themselves might be equipping their old T-90s as per the export spec.

 

[vampyrbladez]

 

[vampyrbladez]

 

[karn]

Wrong thread.

 

[SilentlAssassin265]

Its an Indian tank sent to russia for oem verificiation of mods done here. Fuckers pawned it and then got it blown up

Doesn't matter what we should do now is
1) disassemble all t72 and t90 tanks
2) use the chassis for building bridge laying vehicles or IFV, use the gun as static gun in pillbox
3) order at least 1000 arjum mk1a with aps and fast track light tank project
4) ask drdo and l&t to make FMBT as soon as light tank prototype is out