Indian Army SIG Sauer 716 assault rifle.

[SGOperative]

Suspicious when OFB ammo is exported to the US and reviews are positive of it

"Positive Reviews"

 

[SGOperative]

 

[SGOperative]

In 1988-89 they tested steyr AUG. But it wasn't good enough for IA. A decade later they ended up with INSAS. Nothing is good enough.

Same story different era.

Indigenous Induct kro to Gali Khao, Na karo to Gali khao

 

[vampyrbladez]

Meanwhile, in a parallel move the MoD also included assault rifles in its 310-strong list of military items that India will no longer import, but source domestically. Accordingly, it had issued licenses to five local defence contractors like Adani Defence (Ahmedabad), SSS Defence (Bangalore), Jindal Defence (Delhi) and Optic Electronic India (Noida) to produce assault rifles by entering into collaborative ventures with overseas original equipment manufacturers, further precluding all further Sig Sauer imports.

As it stands now :

Adani Defence - IWI
Jindal Defence - Taurus
SSS - MDT + US accessories
Optic Electronic India - OFB

Possible long term alternatives.

Galil ACE 7 and Tavor 7 - PLR/IWI - Adani Defence

 

[ezsasa]

That round does fine when fired from SLR and Bren. If that does damage to Sigs then its not the fault of Sigs. Instead of scrapping or blaming sigs we should make rounds compatible with the weapon, yes for that you need seperate assembly line. Its the only way forward. The same issue happens with 9mm round when fired from Mp-5.iirc same is the case with M-4s too( i think i heard it somewhere not sure). Sigs are top notch weapon makers they wont make faulty weapons for some extra peanuts at the cost of their reputation.

even if current 7.62 NATO rounds are optimised for sig, if IA chooses a different weapon later for this calibre, the ammo needs to be re-calibrated for the new weapon system again.

it's better IA drops this piece meal approach, have a relook at the 7.62 nato weapon as a whole along with ammo. until then buy imported ammo to keep these existing inventory functional.

right now sig-716 is the only small arms in 7.62 NATO with regular infantry, SCAR-H is another, but that's probably only for SF.

 

[Johny_Baba]

reminder,
this short stroke gas piston AR was in competition back then, originally from amreeka by UWS (Unified Weapons System) in partnership with Tonbo imaging for providing optics,
they provided these thigns to Peruvian army in both 5.56 NATO and 7.62 NATO,

UCR (Unified Combat Rifle) 7.62 X 51 mm NATO

One of the contenders for this program. UWS with Tonbo Imaging have won a assault rifle program for the Peruvian army. It will run for the new Indian one as well.



http://tech.economictimes.indiatime...llion-export-deal-with-peruvian-army/54795667

back then this didn't happen and after loooong time we got SIG716i out of nowhere (i was told by a very trusted friend that they were going ahead with Tavor-7 before SIG thing even made its breakthrough), and now this happening here with SIG716i ...

at this point i am just going to say it as Karma

 

[abingdonboy]

Meanwhile, in a parallel move the MoD also included assault rifles in its 310-strong list of military items that India will no longer import, but source domestically. Accordingly, it had issued licenses to five local defence contractors like Adani Defence (Ahmedabad), SSS Defence (Bangalore), Jindal Defence (Delhi) and Optic Electronic India (Noida) to produce assault rifles by entering into collaborative ventures with overseas original equipment manufacturers, further precluding all further Sig Sauer imports.

As it stands now :

Adani Defence - IWI
Jindal Defence - Taurus
SSS - MDT + US accessories
Optic Electronic India - OFB

We all know where this is going

AK-203 junk (which itself will be made by the same OFB that they claim can’t make ammo!)

Meanwhile PLA are downsizing so they can modernise, mechanise and create mammoth aviation brigades

Days like today almost make me want to see a humiliating defeat at the border, Delhi clowns don’t seem to realise the Chinese are not the Pakis who will wave the white flag the moment their generals realise they haven’t got the domestic support. When they strike they mean to win and they have specific targets in mind.

but that would be unfair to all the low level soldiers that would suffer because of the clueless sold out idiots in Delhi

 

[Spadex]

Few uneducated questions from uninformed fellow :-

1) Why didn't they use indian ammo during testing itself when we were going to use it at home

2) why didn't it goes through the extensive testing cycle whic Indian army is famous for, not a single video/picture is available of jawan testing those Rifle before induction.


3) why the IA always tries to do jugaad, buying a battle Rifle but not scope (released an RFI which will take a million years to produce results), using a higher residue round in a DI Rifle and more.


Isn't soldiers life depends on his weapon and doing untested jugaad will decrease his chances in war.

4) army is equally responsible for their insas Fiasco, they hate DESI weapon but they still tried to desify a phoren weapon,. Why didn't they understand that phoren maal are not made to do Jugaad.



You either go all Indian or all foreign instead of this mix and match

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

LMAO. Apparently you can support the organisation because of whom we loose many potent soldiers

27 jawans killed in 6 years due to faulty ammo: Army report

The army’s note said 159 soldiers were injured in accidents attributed to OFB-supplied ammunition and armament between 2014 and 2020.

www.hindustantimes.com

This is from time when QC was not with OFB, and the raw material given to them was all sorts of faulty. Post the QC being given to OFB, quality much better.

 

[ezsasa]

Few uneducated questions from uninformed fellow :-

1) Why didn't they use indian ammo during testing itself when we were going to use it.

2) why didn't it goes through the extensive testing cycle whic is Indian army is famous for, not a single video/picture is available of jawan testing those Rifle before induction.


3) why the IA always tries to do jugaad, buying a battle Rifle but not scope (released an RFI which will take a million years to produce results), using a higher residue round in a DI Rifle and more.


Isn't soldiers life depends on his weapon and doing untested jugaad will decrease his chances in war.

4) army is equally responsible for their insas Fiasco, they hate DESI weapon but they still tried to desify a phoren weapon,. Why didn't they understand that phoren maal are not made to do Jugaad.



You either go all Indian or all foreign instead of this mix and match

a few can be answered.

- it was an emergency purchase and it was COTS.
- reason for buying scope/accessories separately is because in previous occasions when tender was a combined one (rifle + scope), if rifle was good and scope supplied by OEM was not good, it had to be rejected.
- there is a chance that original ammo was not re-ordered is because there was an ammo shortage in U.S last year. ammo prices sky rocketed for a few months.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

"Positive Reviews"

1980-2000 ammo quality was crap, can confirm.

 

[abingdonboy]

"Positive Reviews"

I saw one video (now private) that reviewed OFB ammo and said it was mil spec and had no issues asp apparently Indian ammo is in high demand in the US market because it is cheap ah decent quality but there’s limitations because the US distributor has to buy direct from OFB who won’t sell unless it’s by the millions of rounds

 

[ezsasa]

I saw one video (now private) that reviewed OFB ammo and said it was mil spec and had no issues asp apparently Indian ammo is in high demand in the US market because it is cheap ah decent quality but there’s limitations because the US distributor has to buy direct from OFB who won’t sell unless it’s by the millions of rounds

there was an ammo shortage in US last year, is it over now?

 

[SGOperative]

I saw one video (now private) that reviewed OFB ammo and said it was mil spec and had no issues asp apparently Indian ammo is in high demand in the US market because it is cheap ah decent quality but there’s limitations because the US distributor has to buy direct from OFB who won’t sell unless it’s by the millions of rounds

Doesnt that proves the point even more about their inconsistency? Also i guess i have linked the CAG report somewhere too.

 

[India Super Power]

We all know where this is going

AK-203 junk (which itself will be made by the same OFB that they claim can’t make ammo!)

Meanwhile PLA are downsizing so they can modernise, mechanise and create mammoth aviation brigades

Days like today almost make me want to see a humiliating defeat at the border, Delhi clowns don’t seem to realise the Chinese are not the Pakis who will wave the white flag the moment their generals realise they haven’t got the domestic support. When they strike they mean to win and they have specific targets in mind.

but that would be unfair to all the low level soldiers that would suffer because of the clueless sold out idiots in Delhi

That's why I always say China is increasing its power manifold times
They always have habit of gaining epitome supremacy over their adversary and then fight for confirm victory
So thinking that we will have any chance of fighting and even winning a single battle against them will be stupidity
We will have no advantage over them except terrain and logistics in few areas

 

[SGOperative]

This is from time when QC was not with OFB, and the raw material given to them was all sorts of faulty. Post the QC being given to OFB, quality much better.

After the new PSUs being formed?

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

After the new PSUs being formed?

Much before. Lemme look up date.

 

[abingdonboy]

That's why I always say China is increasing its power manifold times
They always have habit of gaining epitome supremacy over their adversary and then fight for confirm victory
So thinking that we will have any chance of fighting and even winning a single battle against them will be stupidity
We will have no advantage over them except terrain and logistics in few areas

China is leagues ahead of India in hard power, that much is clear. But instead of realising this and buildijg on India’s natural defensive advantage these clowns are actively undermining even the basics

this thread is about modernisation, what has actually changed in the last 10+ years? Some new PPE? What about new IFV? Arty? SDRs and enhanced C&C?

one of the few significant steps they took(brand new rifles) now actively being disparaged

It’s going to have to take a catastrophe to wake up some

 

[abingdonboy]

Doesnt that proves the point even more about their inconsistency? Also i guess i have linked the CAG report somewhere too.

Frankly I don’t trust CAG reports for such things, they are created by bureaucrats and auditors not independent defence analysts with expert knowledge, IA can misrepresent and obfuscate plenty to hide their systemic issues. M777 barrel burst because of faulty OFB ammo (apparently) and nothing happens, same thing happens to ATAGS and they have to conduct an examination of the entire design and send it to reconfirmtory trails

The only thing I trust is that some guys at the top are getting very ‘fat’ from all this

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

After the new PSUs being formed?

Ordnance factories hit back at Army claims, cite export orders, accidents of other equipment

In a statement, OFB said only 19 per cent of the accidents involving defence ammunition between January 2015 and December 2019 could be attributed to the board.

theprint.in

OFB's side of story, good read.

And the relevant part :-

"
There has been a decrease in the number of accidents since 2005-06, when the responsibility for inspection of input material was given to the OFB. Since 2013, it added, it instituted a new random sample-based check mechanism on freshly manufactured ammunition batches, in addition to the established procedure followed by the DGQA.

"