Indian Army MRSAM

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

WRONG!

WRONG!
We were not allowed to develop our Space Program. WoW Americans were so kind.
We had to develop our own Arihant in secerecy from USA. Yet USA is more friendly.
They gave us lowest quality of wheat during Famines that followed our independence. Yet they want the best for India.
USA sends it Pacific fleet in Bay of Bengal to attack USSR stops it yet America respects our sovereignty.
There are many more examples of US bullying India and even there close ally Pakistan. Read history people.

It appears that in recent times the US fanboys in our govt. have become hyperactive.

Not allowing other governments to acquire new technologies is Neo Colonism.

That is the biggest pile of BS.

India aligned with USSR for most practical purpose and Pak was US's baby. Why do you expect them to help India in 70s? Obviously, they had to help Pak.

Btw, US played a big role in Green revolution and making India self-reliant in food production.

 

[spikey360]

@Scarface, the reference you provided certainly says that Indian pilots were disallowed. But it doesn't mention if the Russians have officially given a reason for this. Do you know what the official line has been? Also, if testing has been a bone of contention, why is this matter not being taken up by authorities in higher levels?

 

[Indian Storm]

There was no correspondence with Russia about S-400,the Government cleared the purchase so we went to the Russians with a deal and they will deny or accept,remains to be seen.

This is how G2G acquisitions work.

As opposed to drawing RFPs where private companies come to you.


What about Frigates, Subs and other deals. Any idea? And someone above said that they will start supplying S 400 to China after 2020? If that is so, then we really have time regarding this deal. Hope that this deal would pass through all obstacles.

There was no correspondence with Russia about S-400,the Government cleared the purchase so we went to the Russians with a deal and they will deny or accept,remains to be seen.

This is how G2G acquisitions work.

As opposed to drawing RFPs where private companies come to you.


Yes they have

http://idrw.org/indian-air-force-nervous/

As

Fine , if you really want to go back in history then I can take you a bit further back.

U.S under Roosevelt was one of the few hardcore supporters of India and her freedom movement,so much so that Churchill had to threaten to resign if Roosevelt didn't stop demanding our freedom.


In the 50s when India was struck by a bad harvest and our people were looking at imminent starvation the U.S sent 1.7 billion worth of gifts , including 931 million worth of free food.

The Soviets gave us half of that,most in the form of Steel mills instead of Food

Then again in 1961 they gave us 1.0 billion loan and 1.3b billion worth of free food.

Then Kennedy supported us,in 1962 when the Chinese attacked us,USAF flew in arms , ammunition and support of IA and U.S sent their Kitty Hawk Carrier to help us,but had to call it back because the conflict ended, they were planning use of nuclear weapons to support us in case of a future Communist aggression.

Our non aligned policy ended up costing as a potential ally , thanks to Nehru, and The Non-aligned policy ended up in a gutter when his esteemed daughter allied us openly with the Soviets.

Stop giving half history.

Fine , if you really want to go back in history then I can take you a bit further back.

U.S under Roosevelt was one of the few hardcore supporters of India and her freedom movement,so much so that Churchill had to threaten to resign if Roosevelt didn't stop demanding our freedom.


In the 50s when India was struck by a bad harvest and our people were looking at imminent starvation the U.S sent 1.7 billion worth of gifts , including 931 million worth of free food.

The Soviets gave us half of that,most in the form of Steel mills instead of Food

Then again in 1961 they gave us 1.0 billion loan and 1.3b billion worth of free food.

Then Kennedy supported us,in 1962 when the Chinese attacked us,USAF flew in arms , ammunition and support of IA and U.S sent their Kitty Hawk Carrier to help us,but had to call it back because the conflict ended, they were planning use of nuclear weapons to support us in case of a future Communist aggression.

Our non aligned policy ended up costing as a potential ally , thanks to Nehru, and The Non-aligned policy ended up in a gutter when his esteemed daughter allied us openly with the Soviets.

Stop giving half history.

Roosevelt was very hard-core supporter but what he gave to us? He died even before Japan surrendered. Moreover where was America when Churchill planned our partition?? USA gave us food grains and Russia gave us food grains plus Steel mill (and its technology) proof of the fact are Bokaro steel plant and Bhilai Steel plant. US said it will support us by bombing China.HUH!!!! They could not bomb them during Korean conflict. And don't forget we get help from Moscow in key areas even today. How much help we have received in nuclear energy or lets say even Railways from USA?

As Chinese saying goes give a man fish and he lives for a day but teach a man how to catch it he lives forever.
I will go with someone who will Teach me.

 

[Scarface]

As


Roosevelt was very hard-core supporter but what he gave to us? He died even before Japan surrendered. Moreover where was America when Churchill planned our partition?? USA gave us food grains and Russia gave us food grains plus Steel mill and its technology proof Bokaro steel plant and Bhilai Steel plant. US said it will support us by bombing China.HUH!!!! They could not bomb them during Korean conflict. And don't forget we get help from Moscow in key areas even today

As Chinese saying goes give a man fish and he lives for a day but teach a man how to catch it he lives forever.
I will go with someone who will Teach me.

Roosevelt supported us,put pressure on the Brits to give us freedom,that's more than Stalin did for us.

USA gave us twice the amount of help compared to USSR.

Russian aid was half the worth of U.S

U.S didn't just say they will support us.They did. USAF flew in arms,ammunition and clothing to our soldiers.They sent the Kitty Hawk to defend us,we had lost by the time it reached Bay of Bengal.

We can survive just fine without Moscow.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Ok, before the thread goes for a toss. Please stop this historical discussion- @Scarface @Indian Storm .

I will delete all off-topic posts now.

 

[Indian Storm]

That is the biggest pile of BS.

India aligned with USSR for most practical purpose and Pak was US's baby. Why do you expect them to help India in 70s? Obviously, they had to help Pak.

Btw, US played a big role in Green revolution and making India self-reliant in food production.

They played a big role and they they got Indian rupee devalued as that time value of our currency was govt. controlled.
I can not understand some people's high enthusiasm regarding US. They will use us like they used porkis, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan (by sending mujahidin troops).
America sees a great market in India nothing else. (Why didn't the have returned David Headley?)
A big market for their finished products and yet another govt. in "south asia" which can be controlled using a remote.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

WRONG!

WRONG!
We were not allowed to develop our Space Program. WoW Americans were so kind.
We had to develop our own Arihant in secerecy from USA. Yet USA is more friendly.
They gave us lowest quality of wheat during Famines that followed our independence. Yet they want the best for India.
USA sends it Pacific fleet in Bay of Bengal to attack USSR stops it yet America respects our sovereignty.
There are many more examples of US bullying India and even there close ally Pakistan. Read history people.

It appears that in recent times the US fanboys in our govt. have become hyperactive.

Not allowing other governments to acquire new technologies is Neo Colonism.

USA is not kind when it sells something it is for national interest or money just like Russia. If USAs prevented us from developing something it was not USA's fault it prevents all competitors from developing things. The bottom line is INdia does not have a industrial military infrastructure . India buys the weapons from countries that sell with specific terms. If India is not happy with the terms India does not have to buy.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

They played a big role and they they got Indian rupee devalued as that time value of our currency was govt. controlled.
I can not understand some people's high enthusiasm regarding US. They will use us like they used porkis, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan (by sending mujahidin troops).
America sees a great market in India nothing else. (Why didn't the have returned David Headley?)
A big market for their finished products and yet another govt. in "south asia" which can be controlled using a remote.

How difficult is it too comprehend that India aligned with USSR and pak with US?

Times have changed and so have geo-political alliances. Indians for some reason like to live in past!

Sent from my MI 3W using Tapatalk

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Indeed,they don't have the izidilye 30 engines yet either. Russia could have directed funds into the PAK FA,they chose not to.To them maintaining their nukes and making SAMs was a higher priority

Russia does not have the funds see link I posted previously. PAKFA is being developed most likely with 100 percent Indian funding. Chinese are also being offered PAKFA and buying? Something Russia and China both probably laughing about.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Russia does not have the funds see link I posted previously. PAKFA is being developed most likely with 100 percent Indian funding. Chinese are also being offered PAKFA and buying? Something Russia and China both probably laughing about.

I don't think Russians will sell their latest military hardware to China given their superb backward engineering skills.

Sent from my MI 3W using Tapatalk

 

[LETHALFORCE]

I don't think Russians will sell their latest military hardware to China given their superb backward engineering skills.

Sent from my MI 3W using Tapatalk

China has/will get S-400 before India. Only country Russia has a deal with.

http://thediplomat.com/2015/11/chin...-400-missile-defense-systems-in-12-18-months/

6 months before China gets it?

 

[Indian Storm]

Ok, before the thread goes for a toss. Please stop this historical discussion- @Scarface @Indian Storm .

I will delete all off-topic posts now.

okay this was going off topic anyways

Roosevelt supported us,put pressure on the Brits to give us freedom,that's more than Stalin did for us.

USA gave us twice the amount of help compared to USSR.

Russian aid was half the worth of U.S

U.S didn't just say they will support us.They did. USAF flew in arms,ammunition and clothing to our soldiers.They sent the Kitty Hawk to defend us,we had lost by the time it reached Bay of Bengal.

We can survive just fine without Moscow.

This is BS. We received independence because Britain was already too weak by the end of WW2 to maintain an empire. There was NO role of America in our independence.
Didn't you read what I said about food grains?? They knew some Indians are short sighted and some Indians like to live in a dream world rather than facing tough reality of being kinda alone and have a less powerful ally.

 

[Scarface]

@Scarface, the reference you provided certainly says that Indian pilots were disallowed. But it doesn't mention if the Russians have officially given a reason for this. Do you know what the official line has been? Also, if testing has been a bone of contention, why is this matter not being taken up by authorities in higher levels?

No they haven't mentioned the reason and I don't know any source privy to why the Russians wouldn't allow our pilots to fly it.

Whatever the reason be,if it was to be sold they should have let IAF fly it but they didn't and now naturally there's bad blood between IAF and Sukhoi, not to mention IAF hasn't had a good experience with them post USSR,lack of spare parts grounding almost half of our MKI fleets.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

okay this was going off topic anyways

This is BS. We received independence because we sent roughly 2 million soldiers to fight in British Army. There was almost no role of America in our independence.
Didn't you read what I said about food grains?? They knew some Indians are short sighted and some Indians like to live in a dream world rather than facing tough reality of being kinda alone and have a less powerful ally.

USA and India have an official defense pact . India is an ally of USA

http://theconversation.com/whats-behind-the-new-us-india-defense-pact-42944

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

China has/will get S-400 before India. Only country Russia has a deal with.

http://thediplomat.com/2015/11/chin...-400-missile-defense-systems-in-12-18-months/

6 months before China gets it?

I don't think it is the latest version that Russia uses.

Sent from my MI 3W using Tapatalk

 

[LETHALFORCE]

I don't think it is the latest version that Russia uses.

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Russia will not give us that version or anyone. Look at our t90 tanks and Russian version many differences.

 

[Indian Storm]

I don't think Russians will sell their latest military hardware to China given their superb backward engineering skills.

Sent from my MI 3W using Tapatalk

Russians are assured that Chinese can not reverse engineer it as they were already extremely wary of Chinese since they copied Russian Sukhois.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Every single weapon Russia has sold to China has been reversed engineered. Chinese are even selling the knock offs on international market. An example of the j 10/j17 Russians in their frustration even made a deal with China for rd93 than have Chinese develop a knock off ( which they cannot). Just so they make something?

 

[Indian Storm]

Russia will not give us that version or anyone. Look at our t90 tanks and Russian version many differences.

But we can and we have modified our T 90s But some say that S 400 can not be modified.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

But we can and we have modified our T 90s But some say that S 400 can not be modified.

I agree we are not buying to modify or resell . But we can license different missile production. The TOT on missile production is what killed the smerch deal.