Indian Army MRSAM

[AnantS]

we have technology of BRAMHOS engine >>>> http://m.thehindu.com/news/national/batl-set-to-make-brahmos-engines/article2568440.ece



akash missile is also based on ramjet engine .


we should focus on scram-jet engine & according to this article we have scram-jet technology since 2006 >>> http://www.vssc.gov.in/VSSC_V4/inde...-articles/631-isro-supersonic-combustion-tech

and BRAMHOS 2 will use this engine .

What about Metallurgy know how for hot section? Doubt it has been shared. But would be glad if corrected with recent information. Even in case of AL 31 engines we are importing some critical components from Russia. Now those components may also be made in India, after India signs/signed new revised ToT agreement with Russia for Sukhoi 30 MKI.

Akash has solid fuel based Ramjet Engine, whereas Brahmos is a liquid fueled ramjet missile. Quite different.

 

[Scarface]

Yes , but then process should not be made public , you see we are going after a state of art technology and our prime minister went to finalize the deal , but instead we got nothing , even talwar frigates are also off the cards and lets not talk about FGFA , the less the better
The point is that these negotiations in which we are skeptical on how vendors will respond should be kept under the table , this will save us from embarrassment

Our PM didn't go to finalize the deal, there was no such deal to begin with. Our PM went to express our interest in acquiring the S-400

As far as the FGFA/PAK FA is concerned it's the Russians who are trying to peddle it as hard as possible,they want us to sign the deal but in all of PAK FAs development years they didn't let IAF touch the damn thing and IAF is against the deal naturally they would be.

The Talwar frigates is the only setback I can see.The Russians are trying to arm twist us into getting the PAK FA

There's nothing embarrassing about what has happened. Israel made public they wanted the F-22s and America just as publicly refused, there's nothing embarrassing,the same happened with Australia and UK IIRC.

This is hardly something out of the ordinary and certainly not worth calling the government "Ch****" for following protocol

 

[spikey360]

As far as the FGFA/PAK FA is concerned it's the Russians who are trying to peddle it as hard as possible,they want us to sign the deal but in all of PAK FAs development years they didn't let IAF touch the damn thing and IAF is against the deal naturally they would be.

Do you sincerely believe that Russia will allow anyone to tinker with their technology before a sale is made? Not even China hs such privileges. But here we have a bunch of amateurs of IAF wanting to have the cake and eat it too. They don't want to make a buy, but before buy, they wish to take part in the technology process of FGFA.
The FGFA is already 95%+ ready. There are no major technological issues to be overcome. I don't know what technology the IAF is still interested in developing? Maybe they want to integrate a little chilli and lemon garland in the cockpit?

 

[LETHALFORCE]

PAKFA deal is more than ten years old. The price will be triple the original price . PAKFA will be another gorshokov if it ever goes thru. The full TOT on Brahmos has not happened. Brahmos cost us three million dollars apiece more than 3-5 times the price of most cruise missiles. Yes Brahmos is special but yakhont and Klub almost similar to Brahmos sell for less than half the price. TOT is used by Russia to sucker Indians and they fall for it every time.

 

[Indian Storm]

Our PM didn't go to finalize the deal, there was no such deal to begin with. Our PM went to express our interest in acquiring the S-400

As far as the FGFA/PAK FA is concerned it's the Russians who are trying to peddle it as hard as possible,they want us to sign the deal but in all of PAK FAs development years they didn't let IAF touch the damn thing and IAF is against the deal naturally they would be.

The Talwar frigates is the only setback I can see.The Russians are trying to arm twist us into getting the PAK FA

There's nothing embarrassing about what has happened. Israel made public they wanted the F-22s and America just as publicly refused, there's nothing embarrassing,the same happened with Australia and UK IIRC.

This is hardly something out of the ordinary and certainly not worth calling the government "Ch****" for following protocol

What do you mean by there was no such deal? Reports here clearly states that everything was ok and was missiles were cleared for purchase.
Similarly it was certain that we were going to buy Russian frigates but everyone are tight lipped about this now.
No talks about nuclear SSN. We all were expecting this one too as almost all our attack subs are more or less 25 years old.
Same thing for PAK-FA and other joint ventures.
WHO IS GETTING ALL THE BENEFIT IF THESE DEALS ARE SABOTAGED?
I BELIEVE THERE IS NO CHINESE HAND BUT AMERICANS HAVE SURELY SABOTAGED ALL THESE DEALS. ESPECIALLY WHEN AMERICANS HAVE BEEN FORCED TO MOVE BACK IN SYRIA & THEY ARE REALLY PISSED AND BUTT-HURT ABOUT THIS.

I AM AFRAID WE MAY BECOME AN AMERICAN CLIENT STATE LIKE PORKIS. THIS IS MY BIGGEST FEAR. EVEN DURING COLD WAR, WE REMAINED NON ALIGNED AND DID NOT BECOME A SOVIET OR AMERICAN PUPPET LIKE OUR NORTHERN NEIGHBOUR.

I cannot fathom any other reason why these deals could not go through and proving my point is also the fact that news was there that we are going to buy drones from US and announcement was made when PM's Russian visit was highlighted and moreover since when did we started to buy American drones instead of Israeli ones???? Sure there is a first time for everything but see the timing!

BRACE YOURSELVES THE NEW AMERICAN PUPPET IS NOW REPUBLIC OF INDIA.

http://www.janes.com/article/55284/...nction-hit-admiral-grigorovich-class-frigates

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...-40000-crore-sources/articleshow/50220687.cms

 

[LETHALFORCE]

How would Americans sabotage a deal Russia would love to do to piss USA off?

 

[Indian Storm]

PAKFA deal is more than ten years old. The price will be triple the original price . PAKFA will be another gorshokov if it ever goes thru. The full TOT on Brahmos has not happened. Brahmos cost us three million dollars apiece more than 3-5 times the price of most cruise missiles. Yes Brahmos is special but yakhont and Klub almost similar to Brahmos sell for less than half the price. TOT is used by Russia to sucker Indians and they fall for it every time.

My friend now India is extremely wary of Russians in this regard.
And yes there were some problems regarding INS Vikramaditya this is because Shipbuilding industry of Russians was hardest hit during the Soviet break up. Can you plz tell who else was ready to sell aircraft carrier to India, anyways?????

 

[Indian Storm]

How would Americans sabotage a deal Russia would love to do to piss USA off?

There are American lobby groups inside our govt.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

My friend now India is extremely wary of Russians in this regard.
And yes there were some problems regarding INS Vikramaditya this is because Shipbuilding industry of Russians was hardest hit during the Soviet break up. Can you who else was ready to sell aircraft carrier to India, anyways?????

USA offered to sell . Vikrant came from UK . Russians were not giving us our first Carrier.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Americans have lobbied Indian government.

Good hope they are successful I would rather India have American weapons over Russian weapons anyday. Most are one generation ahead of Russia.

 

[Indian Storm]

Do you sincerely believe that Russia will allow anyone to tinker with their technology before a sale is made? Not even China hs such privileges. But here we have a bunch of amateurs of IAF wanting to have the cake and eat it too. They don't want to make a buy, but before buy, they wish to take part in the technology process of FGFA.
The FGFA is already 95%+ ready. There are no major technological issues to be overcome. I don't know what technology the IAF is still interested in developing? Maybe they want to integrate a little chilli and lemon garland in the cockpit?

I also have similar feelings. I guess IAF also believe that even if this deal is gone they probably have a chance with F 22 & Pentagon's pain F 35.

 

[Scarface]

Do you sincerely believe that Russia will allow anyone to tinker with their technology before a sale is made? Not even China hs such privileges. But here we have a bunch of amateurs of IAF wanting to have the cake and eat it too. They don't want to make a buy, but before buy, they wish to take part in the technology process of FGFA.
The FGFA is already 95%+ ready. There are no major technological issues to be overcome. I don't know what technology the IAF is still interested in developing? Maybe they want to integrate a little chilli and lemon garland in the cockpit?

I expect the Russians to let our pilots test the capabilities of the PAK FA as would any other vendor,to see whether it meets the tall claims of Russians instead of just taking their word for it.

We haven't even flown the aircraft once,not even under Russian supervision.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

I expect the Russians to let our pilots test the capabilities of the PAK FA as would any other vendor,to see whether it meets the tall claims of Russians instead of just taking their word for it.

We haven't even flown the aircraft once,not even under Russian supervision.

The plane is only a shell most of the systems have to be developed. Radar, air to
Air missiles , engine etc... Only shell and different skins developed ; still more than decade away to get it as advertised.

http://theaviationist.com/2015/04/07/t-50-pak-fa-new-problems/

PAKFA a victim of Russia's financial crisis

 

[spikey360]

I expect the Russians to let our pilots test the capabilities of the PAK FA as would any other vendor,to see whether it meets the tall claims of Russians instead of just taking their word for it.

We haven't even flown the aircraft once,not even under Russian supervision.

Has Russia officially declined an IAF request to test the prototypes?

 

[Indian Storm]

Good hope they are successful I would rather India have American weapons over Russian weapons anyday. Most are one generation ahead of Russia.

American weapons come with whole lot of conditions apply and just because they sell weapons they believe that they own this land. Every now and then American generals cry about having an American base here,

Vikrant came about half a century ago. Right now UK was in no position to sell a 45,000 ton carrier. Neither were French or Spaniards. America wanted to sell their aging kitty hawk which was overpriced regarding its capability today.
INS Vikramaditya is almost 80% new and will be used for at least 50 years.

P.S. Russians weapons are not good as it's western counterparts is a myth made popular by western media and western lobby groups. There might be some ups and downs but I would rather see India using a slightly downgraded weapon then to say bye bye to our national sovereignty.
Russian weapons:-
http://defencyclopedia.com/2015/11/25/top-10-most-powerful-weapons-of-the-russian-military/

 

[LETHALFORCE]

American weapons come with whole lot of conditions apply and just because they sell weapons they believe that they own this land. Every now and then American generals cry about having an American base here,

Vikrant came about half a century ago. Right now UK was in no position to sell a 45,000 ton carrier. Neither were French or Spaniards. America wanted to sell their aging kitty hawk which was overpriced regarding its capability today.
INS Vikramaditya is almost 80% new and will be used for at least 50 years.

P.S. Russians weapons are not good as it's western counterparts is a myth made popular by western media and western lobby groups. There might be some ups and downs but I would rather see India using a slightly downgraded weapon then to say bye bye to our national sovereignty.
Russian weapons:-
http://defencyclopedia.com/2015/11/25/top-10-most-powerful-weapons-of-the-russian-military/

There is no question of sovereignty. India's biggest weapon supplier is USA and India is still an indendent country . India is more free now than we were in the Cold War as a Russian fanboy.
Indian economy has not grown thru trade with Russia it is thru trade with the west prosperity is coming to India don't be ungrateful .

 

[Scarface]

What do you mean by there was no such deal? Reports here clearly states that everything was ok and was missiles were cleared for purchase.
Similarly it was certain that we were going to buy Russian frigates but everyone are tight lipped about this now.
No talks about nuclear SSN. We all were expecting this one too as almost all our attack subs are more or less 25 years old.
Same thing for PAK-FA and other joint ventures.
WHO IS GETTING ALL THE BENEFIT IF THESE DEALS ARE SABOTAGED?
I BELIEVE THERE IS NO CHINESE HAND BUT AMERICANS HAVE SURELY SABOTAGED ALL THESE DEALS. ESPECIALLY WHEN AMERICANS HAVE BEEN FORCED TO MOVE BACK IN SYRIA & THEY ARE REALLY PISSED AND BUTT-HURT ABOUT THIS.

I AM AFRAID WE MAY BECOME AN AMERICAN CLIENT STATE LIKE PORKIS. THIS IS MY BIGGEST FEAR. EVEN DURING COLD WAR, WE REMAINED NON ALIGNED AND DID NOT BECOME A SOVIET OR AMERICAN PUPPET LIKE OUR NORTHERN NEIGHBOUR.

I cannot fathom any other reason why these deals could not go through and proving my point is also the fact that news was there that we are going to buy drones from US and announcement was made when PM's Russian visit was highlighted and moreover since when did we started to buy American drones instead of Israeli ones???? Sure there is a first time for everything but see the timing!

BRACE YOURSELVES THE NEW AMERICAN PUPPET IS NOW REPUBLIC OF INDIA.

http://www.janes.com/article/55284/...nction-hit-admiral-grigorovich-class-frigates

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...-40000-crore-sources/articleshow/50220687.cms

There was no correspondence with Russia about S-400,the Government cleared the purchase so we went to the Russians with a deal and they will deny or accept,remains to be seen.

This is how G2G acquisitions work.

As opposed to drawing RFPs where private companies come to you.

Has Russia officially declined an IAF request to test the prototypes?

Yes they have

http://idrw.org/indian-air-force-nervous/

 

[Indian Storm]

WRONG!

There is no question of sovereignty. India's biggest weapon supplier is USA and India is still an indendent country . India is more free now than we were in the Cold War as a Russian fanboy.

WRONG!
We were not allowed to develop our Space Program. WoW Americans were so kind.
We had to develop our own Arihant in secerecy from USA. Yet USA is more friendly.
They gave us lowest quality of wheat during Famines that followed our independence. Yet they want the best for India.
USA sends it Pacific fleet in Bay of Bengal to attack USSR stops it yet America respects our sovereignty.
There are many more examples of US bullying India and even there close ally Pakistan. Read history people.

It appears that in recent times the US fanboys in our govt. have become hyperactive.

Not allowing other governments to acquire new technologies is Neo Colonism.

 

[Scarface]

The plane is only a shell most of the systems have to be developed. Radar, air to
Air missiles , engine etc... Only shell and different skins developed ; still more than decade away to get it as advertised.

http://theaviationist.com/2015/04/07/t-50-pak-fa-new-problems/

PAKFA a victim of Russia's financial crisis

Indeed,they don't have the izidilye 30 engines yet either. Russia could have directed funds into the PAK FA,they chose not to.To them maintaining their nukes and making SAMs was a higher priority

 

[Scarface]

WRONG!

WRONG!
We were not allowed to develop our Space Program. WoW that was independence.
We had to develop our own Arihant in secerecy from USA. Yet USA is more friendly.
They gave us lowest quality of wheat during Famines that followed our independence. Yet they want the best for India.
USA sends it Pacific fleet in Bay of Bengal to attack USSR stops it yet America respects our sovereignty.
There are many more examples of US bullying India and even there close ally Pakistan. Read history people.

It appears that in recent times the US fanboys in our govt. have become hyperactive.

Fine , if you really want to go back in history then I can take you a bit further back.

U.S under Roosevelt was one of the few hardcore supporters of India and her freedom movement,so much so that Churchill had to threaten to resign if Roosevelt didn't stop demanding our freedom.


In the 50s when India was struck by a bad harvest and our people were looking at imminent starvation the U.S sent 1.7 billion worth of gifts , including 931 million worth of free food.

The Soviets gave us half of that,most in the form of Steel mills instead of Food

Then again in 1961 they gave us 1.0 billion loan and 1.3b billion worth of free food.

Then Kennedy supported us,in 1962 when the Chinese attacked us,USAF flew in arms , ammunition and support of IA and U.S sent their Kitty Hawk Carrier to help us,but had to call it back because the conflict ended, they were planning use of nuclear weapons to support us in case of a future Communist aggression.

Our non aligned policy ended up costing as a potential ally , thanks to Nehru, and The Non-aligned policy ended up in a gutter when his esteemed daughter allied us openly with the Soviets.

Stop giving half history.