Indian Army Issues Purchase Plan Of 200,000 Close Quarter Battle Carbine

[Kunal Biswas]

Some people having restless nights, First they changed the requirement from 5.56mm to 7.62mm when MK1C was progressing to derail the program, OFB took 6 months to re-design the weapon which was unexpected, Now they are issuing same failed tender which took a decade and failed ..

The specs and competitors are same ..

 

[Gessler]

We don't have to get Heckler & Koch products. We can use the Mexican one, if required. They are just as good.

We don't really have much of an established defense relationship with Mexico. I doubt such parties will even respond to the RFI.

That said, what's so great about the G-36C? The IA is more likely to favor robustness & reliability - two qualities the G36 isn't exactly known for. The Bundeswehr has had quite a lot of problems with it. It's only likely to get worse in harsher Indian conditions.

Israeli & US weapons are simply the most likely to win - both from a performance and a logistics perspective (Israel has a clear edge).

Now, if ACE-21 is suitable, why then come up with a new requirement? Is it just to satisfy the ritualistic vendor-tender thing, so that people don't accuse the government of scams?

Yep.

 

[Mikesingh]

Indian Army Issues Purchase Plan Of 200,000 Close Quarter Battle Carbine

Wrong demo of holding a weapon!! Never hold a weapon with your hand on the magazine!! The left hand should be on the hand guard in front for stability. But then she's from the IDF, so.....all's fair in love and war!!

 

[Kay]

NOPE.

These will be procured on a fast track basis, as these are required urgently.

Why are foreign weapons being purchased when equivalent Indian weapon is present? - hope this iquestio gets raised in Parliament - will lead to cancellation of this stupid tender and fast track procurement of JPVC.

 

[ezsasa]

Why are foreign weapons being purchased when equivalent Indian weapon is present? - hope this iquestio gets raised in Parliament - will lead to cancellation of this stupid tender and fast track procurement of JPVC.

JVPC is of a different calibre................................

 

[Hari Sud]

How did the number jump from 40-46,000 to 200,000.

 

[rone]

mark my words the final winner will be iwi tavor x95

 

[Shaitan]

------------------------------------------------

 

[ezsasa]

• Unless IA is not interested in JVPC, this 2 lakh number does not make sense. assuming the expected barrel length is 11-13".
• Knowing that previous imported rifle tender failed because of the optics and yet releasing a new tender for rifle + optics is suspect(unless there is a relaxation on testing criteria for optics this time).
• something is not right with this tender..

i am beginning to think this has been released as a sweetener for Modi's israel visit next month.
===
what is the barrel length of the current tavors?

 

[abingdonboy]

It's REALLY hard to look beyond an israeli/IWI product taking this:

1) IWI now has a plant in India (JV with Punj Lloyd) which means the GoI/MoD could easily pass this off as a win for "Make in India"
2) IWI weapons are liked and in service in India and are proven in Indian conditions
3) The reflex sight+visible/IR laser part seems to give quite an advantadge to the MEPRO MOR sights that most IWI weapons are sold with and that is already used extensively in India


Just sign the god damn deal and get this circus over with for the love of god, the 9mm Sten carbine has been in service for ALL of India's history and its basic design is >80 freaking years old.

The IA's annual budget is >$20BN USD, they could sign this deal for peanuts compared to that at anytime.

 

[Saumyasupraik]

Some people having restless nights, First they changed the requirement from 5.56mm to 7.62mm when MK1C was progressing to derail the program, OFB took 6 months to re-design the weapon which was unexpected, Now they are issuing same failed tender which took a decade and failed ..

The specs and competitors are same ..

There are two different programs, the 7.62mm Rifle (full sized rifle) and 5.56mm Carbine. What are you trying to imply?

 

[Saumyasupraik]

• Unless IA is not interested in JVPC, this 2 lakh number does not make sense. assuming the expected barrel length is 11-13".
• Knowing that previous imported rifle tender failed because of the optics and yet releasing a new tender for rifle + optics is suspect(unless there is a relaxation on testing criteria for optics this time).
• something is not right with this tender..

i am beginning to think this has been released as a sweetener for Modi's israel visit next month.
===
what is the barrel length of the current tavors?

I believe last time the PNS on the ARX-160/Beretta Contender fell off due to which Beretta was out and it was a single vendor situation. You have the news report stating that? I can't find it for some reason.

Current Mil X95s are offered in 13" and 16.5 while the TAR-21 comes in 18" and 15". ACE 22 and 21 come in 13" and 8.5".

 

[Kchontha]

Some people having restless nights, First they changed the requirement from 5.56mm to 7.62mm when MK1C was progressing to derail the program, OFB took 6 months to re-design the weapon which was unexpected, Now they are issuing same failed tender which took a decade and failed ..

The specs and competitors are same ..

Shifting of goal post by some corrupted officials!? I have been expecting this sort of circus since the recent successes in indigenous front. If I were the authority I would ram down the jvpc/insas excalibur and the new 7.62 nato mk 1 c my subordinate throat .....just like Tejas LCA case to IAF.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Their is nothing to imply, You should have known better ..

The notion suggested that due to its PNS fell off from its mounts does not make sense.

====================
====================

Some history regarding this failed trails :

And specially regarding beretta, Its history is well known by Arms dealer Bhupinder, 64, he lives in an opulent bungalow in South Delhi's Vasant Vihar. The son-in-law of a retired Army general, he represents Italian gunmaker Beretta.A keen golfer, he can be seen teeing off at the Delhi Golf Club and Army Golf Club ..

Bhupinder and his son Udai Singh were the only arms agents present on all four days of the Border Security Force (BSF)'s weapon trials held between May 17 and 20 at their facility in Bhondsi, Uttar Pradesh. Officials present at the trials remember Bhupinder plying BSF officials with beer and soft drinks during the trials. On February 14, 2011, Delhi's defence circles sat up and took notice of him. Beretta signed the mha contract worth over Rs.200 crore for 34,377 carbines. Tusky was now in the big league of arms dealers such as Suresh Nanda, named by CBI as an agent in the Barak missile deal, and Mohinder Singh Sahni, also named by CBI as the agent in the Krasnopol guided munitions case.
The Army's tender has already been dogged by allegations that it had been fixed to favour Beretta. Two of the world's biggest rifle manufacturers, Belgium's FN Herstal and Germany's Heckler and Koch, did not participate in the contract bid in 2011 because they were not confident of winning.

There are two different programs, the 7.62mm Rifle (full sized rifle) and 5.56mm Carbine. What are you trying to imply?

I believe last time the PNS on the ARX-160/Beretta Contender fell off due to which Beretta was out and it was a single vendor situation. You have the news report stating that? I can't find it for some reason.

Current Mil X95s are offered in 13" and 16.5 while the TAR-21 comes in 18" and 15". ACE 22 and 21 come in 13" and 8.5".

 

[pmaitra]

A simple solution would be to modify the exiting INSAS family of rifles by shortening the barrel and introducing modifications so that the muzzle flash can be reduced. Since the operational requirement of a carbine is that it should be able to use standard issue ammunition, we should accept the unavoidable fact that there will be more muzzle flash in case of a carbine than what we see in case of the standard issue INSAS rifles.

 

[Saumyasupraik]

First they changed the requirement from 5.56mm to 7.62mm when MK1C was progressing to derail the program, OFB took 6 months to re-design the weapon which was unexpected, Now they are issuing same failed tender which took a decade and failed ..

If a requirement is there it has to be met even though the contenders failed in the previous tender or the tenders before it no? Does the 5.56mm Mk.1C meet the Carbine tender? And you at least must be aware that the Army is supposed to conduct the trials for the 7.62mm Mk.1C today, so how is it the Army is running away from an indigenous project again?

You are saying the Army went from 5.56x45mm to 7.62x51mm to derail the Mk.1C program for, but are you aware the shift to 7.62mm Calibre was decided during Army Commander's Conference held during April of 2016 while the RFI itself was floated sent in Sept 2016? Furthermore preceding the 7.62x51mm shift it was required that the Army be equipped with a multi-calibre rifle, the tender for which was scrapped in 2015 when all rifles failed.

As I've said before the requirements are for two rifles, the 7.62x51mm Full Sized Battle Rifle and the 5.56x45mm CQB Carbine. The new 7.62 NATO Mk.1C would probably compete in the 7.62x51mm Rifle tender.

The notion suggested that due to its PNS fell off from its mounts does not make sense.

So the Army had failed the same rifle (ARX-160) in trials it was so vehemently vouching for over a reason as absurd as the PNS falling off?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

What you quoted is about 2011 failed trails so does the recent ones in both carbine and AR, Regardless its a carbine or a AR their mechanism & metallurgy are basically the same which is the prime factor for their failures, The link is provided for your understanding..

No, The 2011 trails were final and are done with a conform result, The issue here is to re-activate it for malicious intentions which involve bribery and scam, MK1C is not competing for carbine tender rather MSMC which cleared its trails and sitting ideal for a year or so ..

You first have to know how trails are conducted before getting to the bottom-line & Their are more than one chance given to contenders when they fail, The contender don`t get one or two rifles for trails rather 20-50 pieces for a single season of trails, A mechanism failure can be understood but a PNS falling every-time from mount make no sense to me, The story is cooked up..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Now name changed to #JVPC Joint Venture Personal Carbine. Weapon is improved after Army's suggestions. Weapon is light and accurate. According to DRDO ARDE Officials, Weapon is going to be in service in 12 months. Army is conducting field trials of this version.
Caliber : 5.56mm × 30 MINSAS

^^ This is something quoted from the expo ..

=========================================

The same army which is going to induct JVPC in a year or so, The same Army launching RFI for carbines?, same tender which failed during 2011 ?? ..

 

[Raj Malhotra]

After MCIWS was unveiled, Army has combined assault rifle tender with carbine tender & started calling it carbine tender. INSAS carbine was unsuccessful for so long due to slow burn profile of INSAS round. But to encourage imports it seems imported carbines don't need to fire INSAS round but only NATO round. It's piece of cake to manufacture INSAS or MCIWS carbine with NATO Round. Shameless dishonesty

 

[pmaitra]

^^ This is something quoted from the expo ..

=========================================

The same army which is going to induct JVPC in a year or so, The same Army launching RFI for carbines?, same tender which failed during 2011 ?? ..

I think the Army needs a carbine that can fire 5.56 x 45 mm rounds, not 5.56 x 30 mm rounds. The purpose of carbine (not a universal truth) is to allow the usage of regular issue ammunition. I could be wrong though. The opening post's article does not clarify that.