Indian Army Issues Purchase Plan Of 200,000 Close Quarter Battle Carbine

lcafanboy

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Indian Army Issues Purchase Plan Of 200,000 Close Quarter Battle Carbine
CC0 / /
MILITARY & INTELLIGENCE
10:33 10.06.2017Get short URL
12642134
After repeated failures to purchase critical small arms for 1.3 million soldiers, the Indian Army has once again begun the process to purchase 200,000 close quarter battle carbines to add powers for fights in the 200-meter range.



© SPUTNIK/ ILIYA PITALEV
Moscow, New Delhi Discuss Making Russian Weapons in India
New Delhi (Sputnik) — The Indian Army seeks a CQB Carbine with 5.56 mm caliber having minimum range of 200 meters and a hit target with accuracy better than four minutes of angle. Carbines are rifles with short-range barrels and are suitable for close quarter combat.


Last year, Indian government cancelled a six-year-old tender for obtaining 44,618 close quarter battle carbines and 33.6 million rounds of ammunition. That bid was won by the Galil Ace of Israeli Weapon Industry (IWI) but the Indian Law Ministry did not give a final go-ahead for the "single vendor situation" deal as only one firm passed the trials conducted by the Indian Army.

Four other global firms, including Italy's Beretta, participated in the bid but failed to meet the tough specifications laid down by the Indian Army. This led to a "single vendor situation" which attracted the attention of competitors who suspected foul play.




© AP PHOTO/ RAFIQ MAQBOOL
India Deploys Four Warships With Advanced Weapons in the Mediterranean Sea
As current trends suggest, the Indian government may prioritize suppliers who can provide Make in India component in the deal. Israeli IWI & India's Punj Lloyd has set up a JV named Punj Lloyd Raksha Systems aimed to supply small arms, including Galil ACE carbines to Indian armed forces. "This is a joint venture with technology transfer arrangement to manufacture IWI's small arms in India," Ashok Wadhawan, President — Manufacturing Business (Defense and Aerospace) at Punj Lloyd Limited, told Sputnik.


Punj Lloyd Raksha System may face tough competition from joint venture protective carbine (JVPC) developed by state-owned DRDO and the trials are underway with Army. JVPC has developed in the 5.56x30mm caliber and has a weight of 3.05 kilogram which is very close to the requirement sought by the Indian Army for this tender (3 kilogram). It can fire upto 850-900 round per minute.
https://sputniknews.com/military/201706101054504985-india-purchase-carbine/

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lcafanboy

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pmaitra

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Here are a few carbines that I could think of, although they may not exactly match the requirements. These are all 5.56 x 45 mm carbines. If this is the requirement, this would automatically disqualify the MSMC that is 5.56 x 30 mm.

Here is a list.


Heckler & Koch G36 carbine, from Germany, is in service with many countries, including German Army and police.


A close relative of the H&K G36 is the FX-05 Xiuhcoatl, from Mexico. This is about to replace the H&K G36 currently in service in Mexico. This has been mired in controversy regarding patent violation due to the apparent similarity with the H&K G36.


When it comes to the question of ambidexterity, as mentioned in the requirements, few others come close to the Steyr AUG, from Austria. Being a bull-pup, it also allows for a longer barrel without making the entire rifle too long.


Another good carbine that is a bull-pup would be the Tavor TAR-21, from Israel. This is already in service in India.


Another rifle that can do a good job of a carbine, but will not meet the requirements due to the calibre, but has the range, is the FN P-90, from Belgium. This is a bull-pup with a magazine that runs on top of the barrel. It may not be a very comfortable weapon to hold (personal opinion), but it certainly is very compact and well built.

At the end of it all, I would prefer something that is made in India and gets the job done, with acceptable accuracy and reliability. I don't care if the fit and finish is crude.
 

Gessler

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Here are a few carbines that I could think of, although they may not exactly match the requirements. These are all 5.56 x 45 mm carbines. If this is the requirement, this would automatically disqualify the MSMC that is 5.56 x 30 mm.

Here is a list.


Heckler & Koch G36 carbine, from Germany, is in service with many countries, including German Army and police.


A close relative of the H&K G36 is the FX-05 Xiuhcoatl, from Mexico. This is about to replace the H&K G36 currently in service in Mexico. This has been mired in controversy regarding patent violation due to the apparent similarity with the H&K G36.


When it comes to the question of ambidexterity, as mentioned in the requirements, few others come close to the Steyr AUG, from Austria. Being a bull-pup, it also allows for a longer barrel without making the entire rifle too long.


Another good carbine that is a bull-pup would be the Tavor TAR-21, from Israel. This is already in service in India.


Another rifle that can do a good job of a carbine, but will not meet the requirements due to the calibre, but has the range, is the FN P-90, from Belgium. This is a bull-pup with a magazine that runs on top of the barrel. It may not be a very comfortable weapon to hold (personal opinion), but it certainly is very compact and well built.

At the end of it all, I would prefer something that is made in India and gets the job done, with acceptable accuracy and reliability. I don't care if the fit and finish is crude.
The Galil ACE-21/23 series (to be produced locally by IWI-Punj Llyod JV) seems like the most likely winner. Only way it wouldn't be so is if this turns out to be a single-vendor situation again like last time.

Forget HK products...they aren't available to India anymore. We're on a blacklist.

Personally, I'd like either the Galil ACE or any AR-15 platform as the carbine for IA.
 

pmaitra

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The Galil ACE-21/23 series (to be produced locally by IWI-Punj Llyod JV) seems like the most likely winner. Only way it wouldn't be so is if this turns out to be a single-vendor situation again like last time.

Forget HK products...they aren't available to India anymore. We're on a blacklist.

Personally, I'd like either the Galil ACE or any AR-15 platform as the carbine for IA.
We don't have to get Heckler & Koch products. We can use the Mexican one, if required. They are just as good.

Now, if ACE-21 is suitable, why then come up with a new requirement? Is it just to satisfy the ritualistic vendor-tender thing, so that people don't accuse the government of scams?
 

Johny_Baba

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IWI's X-95 is being used by various paramilitary forces.I bid my money on it.

Another one would be M4A1 - the most versatile carbine ever made.

Though seriously duhh...What happened to DRDO's JVPC?
If they want a rifle caliber carbine,then why don't they make a small barreled variant of Excalibur Mk.-1C (Similar to that 'Kalantak' variant)? Or even better,Small barreled variant of MCIWS/AAR (that would be India's own M4A1)?
 

indiandefencefan

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IWI's X-95 is being used by various paramilitary forces.I bid my money on it.

Another one would be M4A1 - the most versatile carbine ever made.

Though seriously duhh...What happened to DRDO's JVPC?
If they want a rifle caliber carbine,then why don't they make a small barreled variant of Excalibur Mk.-1C (Similar to that 'Kalantak' variant)? Or even better,Small barreled variant of MCIWS/AAR (that would be India's own M4A1)?
JVPC is an overpowered PDW rather than a true carbine. Hence the hesitation from the army.
JVPC might be re-chambered in 9mm to make it more effective in PDW role currently recoil is too high, the same problem which killed the the Kalantak carbine.
 

pmaitra

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JVPC is an overpowered PDW rather than a true carbine. Hence the hesitation from the army.
JVPC might be re-chambered in 9mm to make it more effective in PDW role currently recoil is too high, the same problem which killed the the Kalantak carbine.
The specification states 5.56 mm. I am assuming it is 5.56 x 45 mm. 9 mm won't fit the bill. M-16 rechambered in 9 mm would do if there were no restriction on the calibre. As a matter of fact, our Sterlings are 9 mm.
 

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The specification states 5.56 mm. I am assuming it is 5.56 x 45 mm. 9 mm won't fit the bill. M-16 rechambered in 9 mm would do if there were no restriction on the calibre. As a matter of fact, our Sterlings are 9 mm.
Carbines are supposed to equip officers as well troops in support roles. 9mm Sterlings were outdated and underpowered even in 60s. Old TO&E stated 128 carbines per infantry battalion. JVPC is too heavy and probably clumsy for carbine role. Better go with short barreled AAR.
 

pmaitra

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Carbines are supposed to equip officers as well troops in support roles. 9mm Sterlings were outdated and underpowered even in 60s. Old TO&E stated 128 carbines per infantry battalion. JVPC is too heavy and probably clumsy for carbine role. Better go with short barreled AAR.
I agree. I was just talking about the hypothetical case because the other person mentioned 9 mm.
 

Adioz

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Indian Army Issues Purchase Plan Of 200,000 Close Quarter Battle Carbine
CC0 / /
MILITARY & INTELLIGENCE
10:33 10.06.2017Get short URL
12642134
After repeated failures to purchase critical small arms for 1.3 million soldiers, the Indian Army has once again begun the process to purchase 200,000 close quarter battle carbines to add powers for fights in the 200-meter range.



© SPUTNIK/ ILIYA PITALEV
Moscow, New Delhi Discuss Making Russian Weapons in India
New Delhi (Sputnik) — The Indian Army seeks a CQB Carbine with 5.56 mm caliber having minimum range of 200 meters and a hit target with accuracy better than four minutes of angle. Carbines are rifles with short-range barrels and are suitable for close quarter combat.


Last year, Indian government cancelled a six-year-old tender for obtaining 44,618 close quarter battle carbines and 33.6 million rounds of ammunition. That bid was won by the Galil Ace of Israeli Weapon Industry (IWI) but the Indian Law Ministry did not give a final go-ahead for the "single vendor situation" deal as only one firm passed the trials conducted by the Indian Army.

Four other global firms, including Italy's Beretta, participated in the bid but failed to meet the tough specifications laid down by the Indian Army. This led to a "single vendor situation" which attracted the attention of competitors who suspected foul play.




© AP PHOTO/ RAFIQ MAQBOOL
India Deploys Four Warships With Advanced Weapons in the Mediterranean Sea
As current trends suggest, the Indian government may prioritize suppliers who can provide Make in India component in the deal. Israeli IWI & India's Punj Lloyd has set up a JV named Punj Lloyd Raksha Systems aimed to supply small arms, including Galil ACE carbines to Indian armed forces. "This is a joint venture with technology transfer arrangement to manufacture IWI's small arms in India," Ashok Wadhawan, President — Manufacturing Business (Defense and Aerospace) at Punj Lloyd Limited, told Sputnik.


Punj Lloyd Raksha System may face tough competition from joint venture protective carbine (JVPC) developed by state-owned DRDO and the trials are underway with Army. JVPC has developed in the 5.56x30mm caliber and has a weight of 3.05 kilogram which is very close to the requirement sought by the Indian Army for this tender (3 kilogram). It can fire upto 850-900 round per minute.
https://sputniknews.com/military/201706101054504985-india-purchase-carbine/

@IndianHawk @Willy2 @roma @Krusty @Defcon 1 @Ghanteshwar @raheel besharam @raja696 @Amr @AnkitPurohit @Akshay_Fenix @aditya10r @airtel @aditya10r @ancientIndian @Bahamut @Berkut @Bornubus @Bengal_Tiger @ersakthivel @FRYCRY @Gessler @HariSud @hit&run @hardip @indiandefencefan @IndianHawk @JayPatel @Kshatriya87 @LETHALFORCE @Mikesingh @NavneetKundu @OneGrimPilgrim @pmaitra @PaliwalWarrior @Pulkit @smestarz @SakalGhareluUstad @Srinivas_K @ShashankSharma @Superdefender @Screambowl @TacticalFrog
The number of carbines to be procured under the tender has increased from 40,000 in the old tender to 200,000 in this one. Must mean the Army plans to get this done once and for all. Highly unlikely that this tender will fail like the last one. I hope JVPC wins this.
 

sthf

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I'd like to add another thing that this order can be potentially much higher as carbines will filter down to CAPFs and State cops.

You are looking at the lifetime order of million plus, so better go with desi option though I am not a big fan of JVPC.
 

Raj Malhotra

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Whenever sights are being asked with the rifle, it's strong indication of Israeli manipulation of tender conditions to favor their products. No wonder MCIWS is undergoing trials for 2 years with no interest from military
 
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