Indian Army Aviation Wing

[sandeepdg]

I do not think IN will opt for any 5th gen planes from US, when India has already invested much on the R&D of Pak-FA.

I never said that India will definitely buy the F-35B for its navy.. its just being speculated by the Americans as future buy for the IN. Of course, if we get a naval version of PAK-FA, obviously nobody is gonna consider the F-35.

 

[Quickgun Murugan]

Thanks for pointing out the typo in my post. I meant to say:



My intention in posting the article was to show that HAL and other Indian defence research organizations try to get technology via ToT from the leverage India gets by flaunting its lucrative defence spending.

This doesn't work because the supplying countries try to withhold parts of the information (and rightly so because business practices dictate it) thus condemning HAL and other organizations to try to figure out the missing pieces in the last generation while these countries work on improving their designs thus designing the next generation products. I don't think it to be an optimal approach by India if it wishes to be self sufficient in designing comparable products.

Indian defence research organizations also tend to be lazy to incorporate routine improvements in design and try to jump generations of products (A case in point is the significant disconnect between the development of HF-24 and Tejas). Just take a look at the improvements on F-16 since it was first introduced. There has been so many blocks, with major and minor advancements incorporated in each block, which shows that solving problems in sizeable pieces is better and integration of advanced equipment is better if done in iterative fashion, since it will help in solving the root cause of failures by isolating the problem faster.

It could be that these organization lacked funds in the past because of the wars that India had to face, and hence India had to look outward to 'urgently purchase' equipment to preserve its territorial integrity. But that is not the case anymore. Thus, India should not look at buying products solely to get ToT. If HAL continues to worry about ToT, they will be stuck in this chicken-and-egg problem of decoding and licence manufacturing last generation products while the western world chips away at designing next generation defence products.

This is where I think buying F-16IN and F-18SH will not be a prudent choice for the Indian defence establishment, since EADS has offered India the option of joining as a partner in the Typhoon program, and Russia offering to work with India in designing the next generation radar. I understand that while even these organizations will try to keep as much from us as possible, it still is a much better option than buying a watered down version of AESA radar from Raytheon installed on F-16IN and F-18SH just to comply with the ToT requirements.

We have been working with the french and Russians all these years. If all these years of working under so called ToT does not help Indians to be self-sufficient, then what is the guarantee that it will be a different case now? Haven't we experimented enough with Russia?

Moreover, US deal is not over yet. It knows that it cannot win MMRCA contract if it does not cut some slack in ToT.

This discussion is turning out to be a MMRCA debate, totally inappropriate to this thread title. Apologies.

 

[K Factor]

IA has 44 Hind gunships (24 Mi-25 and 20 Mi-35 Hinds) in its inventory as per Wikipedia.

Equipment of the Indian Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[F-14]

IA has 44 Hind gunships (24 Mi-25 and 20 Mi-35 Hinds) in its inventory as per Wikipedia.

Equipment of the Indian Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

these hinds are operated by th IAF though it is under the command of the IA and is flown by IA pilots the Hinds serve with the No.125 Helicopter Squadron, The Gladiators and No.104 Squadron, "Pioneer Rotarians aka Firebirds"

 

[icecoolben]

The army better fund the development of light combat helicopter, light utility helicopter etc. To establish a low cost yet ground supportive air wing.

 

[bsn4u1985]

The army better fund the development of light combat helicopter, light utility helicopter etc. To establish a low cost yet ground supportive air wing.

yes i agree with u..indian army should develop their own air wing through indigenous development but i hope tat it would not be hit by delays and political reasons...........

 

[AJSINGH]

hind is actually better than the ah64d. army avation should buy more hinds

 

[F-14]

AJ dont talk gberish the Hind though combat proven is not a dedicated Attack helicoper where as the the LCH and the apache are dedicated Attackes both have seprate functions and limitations

 

[AJSINGH]

AJ dont talk gberish the Hind though combat proven is not a dedicated Attack helicoper where as the the LCH and the apache are dedicated Attackes both have seprate functions and limitations

not true ,hind is dedicated attack helicopter with load capacity
The Mi-28 although sharing same configuration of the ah-64, its much more effective. Its more powerful, climbs better, accelerates much faster (especially with its new 2400shp engines) and is much more agile. Mi-28 mechanically is far supirior to the ah-64. The Ah-64 is less agile then a westland lynx (i know this because from Farnborough airshow 2008), its not the most agile helicopter of its day, its not that much more nimble than a mi-24.

Mi-28 is also far better armoured and more survivable than ah-64D. It has duplication of the main mechanical components and hydraulics as well as advanced armour around vital areas such as cockpit, engine nacelle and rotor blades.

Mi-28 has far better fire-power, the 2a42 30mm weopon is a BIG and HEAVY fast firing cannon borrowed from the bmp-2 IFV, its far more accurate , faster muzzle velocity (hence more accurate and better penetration) than the Chain gun on the Ah-64. It also can be equiped with at-16s (new varients) which are faster, more accurate and is more immune to jamming than the Hellfire missiles. Although the hellfires work better at night thanks to its radar guidance.

helicopters are designed to fight each other so i dont see how a ah-64 will take out a mi-28 or vice versa. Although mi-28s could carry the R-73 thrust which is much better than the aim-9l carried by ah-64d.

 

[rajkoumar]

Indian army should have there own air wing with some specific tasks like tactic bombers combact helicopter and transport logistics.

Indian Air force can concentrate in defending our sky's with more efficacity and to get well modernise to get prepare for future challenges.

Indian pilotes need more training to get familiarise with supersonic jets with zero error. each error and careless mistake will be heavy loss for us.

 

[rajkoumar]

A10 flights for tactical boming, chihook for transport and appach or Mi 25 & 35 for attack. it's just a example for amry air wings.
this fecilitis may give enough capacity and atonamous to defend our territeries

 

[AJSINGH]

A10 flights for tactical boming, chihook for transport and appach or Mi 25 & 35 for attack. it's just a example for amry air wings.
this fecilitis may give enough capacity and atonamous to defend our territeries

A-10 not available to india , chinnok is but Mi 26 is far better in range ,payload capacity ( hold world record for carrying maximum cargo for the longest range ) Mi 35 is excellent attack helicopter ,it can resque as well as provide air support at the same time

 

[neo29]

may be indian army cud be given an air wing after the iaf meets up to current days modern requirement. it may also be a drawback giving less importance iaf during surgical strikes within india and outside.

 

[rohanamz]

army definitely needs an air wing. remember wat hpnd in kargil. it needs high altitude attack helicopters and gunships badly. the iaf can be used for tactical and surgical strikes outside or even inside the country.

 

[Zoravar]

I do not know whether the army can have it's own aviation,but surely all attack helicopters and new attack helicopters can be made for the army.At most what the army would need are either a-10 thunderbolts or su-25 frogfoots.

 

[xebex]

IMO, Army must need an air wing but should be limitted to choppers for troop moblilzation and VIP transportation. What i meant by VIP is the high ranking officers in the armed forces. But the key is to sync Army, Airforce and Navy together and fight the adversary together. At the end of the day, three of them have the same goal - Protecting India.

 

[rahul_ranj]

All the three services have their own stategic and tactical goals. But giving Army their own aviation wing will have the folllowing benefits:
1) Air Force will be relieved from the close support of Army which releives AF resources and can be used elsewhere. The close support by AF is always subected to co-ordination and keeping ego aside.
2) AF can concentrate more on Strategic bombing, air superiority and interdiction.
3) Army will be independent from the extra co-ordination effort and can plan their tactical and battlefield movements with much more flexibilty.

The following type of aircraft would be good for Indian Army:
1) Close air support fixed wing aircrafts.
2) Helicopter gunships
3) Heavy and Medium lift helicopters for strategic lift capacity
4) Helicopters for S&R and evacuation situations.

 

[Yatharth Singh]

The Army and Air Force is always at loggerheads with each other over the use of Air Force for Army ops. The Air Force does not want to be subordinate to the Army and is reluctant to support the Army. This was the case in the past for sure.
The new Cold Start doctrine requires complete synergy between the Army and the Air Force to carry out its surprise attack, which means the Air Force will have to provide close air support to the Army. CAS is something the AF is usually averse to as it things that its primary role is strategic bombing and Air to Air combat.

So is it not time that the Army has its own aviation wing with fixed wing aircraft so that it can take care of its close air support needs and also do away with the lack of coordination with the AF?

ahh... that`s not new. Army is already having its aviation core that which includes heavy air lifters, attack helicopters,transport helicopters,UAV drones,indigenous unmanned light ground watcher plane(nishant), military transport carriers and many others. Now if you want that army should also include supersonic fighter fighter jets and bombers then obviously there is no need of a separate air force.
Also for your information I must tell you that till the WW1, no country had a separate air force but that time air force was known as the "air arm" of the army. It was after after many years of WW1 that the air force was separated from army and in WW2 air force was a separate part of the armed forces in the world.

 

[Armand2REP]

All the fast jets should go to the IAF. Gunships should go to the Army. UAVs are in direct support of ground operations so they should go to the Army unless they are long range. IAF should have liaison officers working with IA in a joint command. With the new networks India is setting up it should not be difficult to coordinate. Branches of any military will be fighting for their own funding, whoever makes the best case for their relevance wins.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Army is already having its aviation core that which includes heavy air lifters, attack helicopters,transport helicopters,UAV, Now if you want that army should also include supersonic fighter fighter jets and bombers then obviously there is no need of a separate air force.

Sorry Bud, I never heard or saw 'such things' in Army Aviation before..
We will have Nishant UAVs, And presently we have Chetaks, cheetah and ALH..
We are waiting for LCH which will be the primary CAS platform..
I can only wish for SU-25 & A-10s lol..
In US it takes 40 mins for an aircraft to provide CAS to nearby ground troops..
In India it took 12-24 hours ( Kargil ) to provide CAS to nearby Ground troops..

Army Aviation should have min 100 CAS Aircrafts, And 200+ LCH..

All the fast jets should go to the IAF. Gunships should go to the Army. UAVs are in direct support of ground operations so they should go to the Army unless they are long range. IAF should have liaison officers working with IA in a joint command. With the new networks India is setting up it should not be difficult to coordinate. Branches of any military will be fighting for their own funding, whoever makes the best case for their relevance wins.

More like Air Superiority, SEAD, Deep strikes & Surgical strikes should be IAF responsibility, While Army Aviation can be engaged in limited PGM strikes & CAS, Beside all, Having Army Jets, Army can deploy it faster than IAF..

Also i would like to add, In Indian Armed forces their is a complex chains of command which delays the require operations on ground..