Indian Army Artillery
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pankaj nema
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India should purchase only M777 , javelins , strykers and harpoons where CISMOA does not apply.
Anshu Attri
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India may fast-track acquisition of US light howitzers
05 January 2010
New Delhi: It appears very likely that India may fast-track acquisition of Ultra Light Howitzer artillery systems for its army and that this contract may very likely go to the US-based BAE Land Systems. Its readiness to strike this particular deal may be conveyed in some form or the other during US defence secretary Robert Gates' visit to New Delhi.
M-777A- Image: BAE Land SystemsThe date of the visit is yet to be announced.
BAE Land Systems supplies the highly rated M-777A1 ultra-light howitzers.
It's now being given to understand that the transaction may involve import of 145 air-mobile ultra-light howitzers (ULHs) for around Rs2,900 crore in a direct government-to-government deal. The deal acquires particular urgency for the army as its ambitious programme to upgrade its artillery systems has been hanging fire for an inordinately long period.
In a time honoured fashion, which attends all defence deals in this country, strategically timed scandals erupt in some form or the other to interrupt what has now become a thoroughly bureaucratised process, where the modalities of acquisition have become more sacrosanct than the acquisition itself.
The Indian Army has been trying for long to get its Rs20,000 crore artillery modernisation programme into motion. This involves acquisition of different types of 155mm/52-calibre guns.
domain-b.com : India may fast-track acquisition of US light howitzers
New Delhi: It appears very likely that India may fast-track acquisition of Ultra Light Howitzer artillery systems for its army and that this contract may very likely go to the US-based BAE Land Systems. Its readiness to strike this particular deal may be conveyed in some form or the other during US defence secretary Robert Gates' visit to New Delhi.
BAE Land Systems supplies the highly rated M-777A1 ultra-light howitzers.
It's now being given to understand that the transaction may involve import of 145 air-mobile ultra-light howitzers (ULHs) for around Rs2,900 crore in a direct government-to-government deal. The deal acquires particular urgency for the army as its ambitious programme to upgrade its artillery systems has been hanging fire for an inordinately long period.
In a time honoured fashion, which attends all defence deals in this country, strategically timed scandals erupt in some form or the other to interrupt what has now become a thoroughly bureaucratised process, where the modalities of acquisition have become more sacrosanct than the acquisition itself.
The Indian Army has been trying for long to get its Rs20,000 crore artillery modernisation programme into motion. This involves acquisition of different types of 155mm/52-calibre guns.
domain-b.com : India may fast-track acquisition of US light howitzers
plugwater
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Singapore firm may lose Army contract to US
With defence giant Singapore Technologies (ST) still in trouble due to the ongoing CBI investigation into charges of bribing Indian officials, a mega Army contract valued at more than $1 billion seems to be heading the American way.
A top defence official has said the Defence Ministry is looking at other options, including a direct military purchase from the US, for the ultra light 155 mm howitzer contract in which ST was the only contender.
Making it clear that the procurement — the Army urgently requires 145 of the light mountain guns for deployment on the China and Pakistan borders — has gone into deep freeze, the official said trials for the gun would not be carried out as per the advice of the Law Ministry.
As reported earlier, the MoD had last month allowed trials in cases where tainted defence firms are contenders, as long as it was a multiple-vendor situation. This has again quashed ST’s hopes that its gun would be tested for the ultra light contest. The ST gun, which was under shipment for trials when the CBI arrested former OFB chairman Sudipta Ghosh, is currently lying idle in Pokharan.
Defence Ministry officials said given the urgent requirement of the Army and the legal deadlock over ST, a direct military purchase could be a viable option. “We are looking at other options. We are looking at the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) option which was cleared by the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC),” a top official said.
If the MoD decides to take the FMS route, the Indian Army will go in for the M 777 ultra light Howitzer that is being used by American forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. The gun, which is owned by British firm BAR Systems, is the only other artillery system suited to the Indian Army.
While the BAE gun had been called to take part in the trial, the company did not participate in the contest, which many considered would be one-sided given the list of technical requirements drawn up by the Army.
However, insiders say another option, that of a direct military sale of the ST gun from Singapore, could be pursued by the Ministry. This direct government-to-government sale would also take care of legal problems being faced in negotiating directly with a tainted firm like ST.
With defence giant Singapore Technologies (ST) still in trouble due to the ongoing CBI investigation into charges of bribing Indian officials, a mega Army contract valued at more than $1 billion seems to be heading the American way.
A top defence official has said the Defence Ministry is looking at other options, including a direct military purchase from the US, for the ultra light 155 mm howitzer contract in which ST was the only contender.
Making it clear that the procurement — the Army urgently requires 145 of the light mountain guns for deployment on the China and Pakistan borders — has gone into deep freeze, the official said trials for the gun would not be carried out as per the advice of the Law Ministry.
As reported earlier, the MoD had last month allowed trials in cases where tainted defence firms are contenders, as long as it was a multiple-vendor situation. This has again quashed ST’s hopes that its gun would be tested for the ultra light contest. The ST gun, which was under shipment for trials when the CBI arrested former OFB chairman Sudipta Ghosh, is currently lying idle in Pokharan.
Defence Ministry officials said given the urgent requirement of the Army and the legal deadlock over ST, a direct military purchase could be a viable option. “We are looking at other options. We are looking at the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) option which was cleared by the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC),” a top official said.
If the MoD decides to take the FMS route, the Indian Army will go in for the M 777 ultra light Howitzer that is being used by American forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. The gun, which is owned by British firm BAR Systems, is the only other artillery system suited to the Indian Army.
While the BAE gun had been called to take part in the trial, the company did not participate in the contest, which many considered would be one-sided given the list of technical requirements drawn up by the Army.
However, insiders say another option, that of a direct military sale of the ST gun from Singapore, could be pursued by the Ministry. This direct government-to-government sale would also take care of legal problems being faced in negotiating directly with a tainted firm like ST.
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US $ 650 million deal for 155 mm towed artillery guns
http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/la...projects-trials-allowed-mod-7.html#post102266
in 2008
WASHINGTON, June 17, 2008 – The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress of a possible
Foreign Military Sale to Canada of M777 155mm Light-Weight Towed Howitzers as well as associated
equipment and services. The total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $114 million
http://www.dsca.osd.mil/PressReleases/36-b/2008/Canada_08-68.pdf
http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/la...projects-trials-allowed-mod-7.html#post102266
in 2008
WASHINGTON, June 17, 2008 – The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress of a possible
Foreign Military Sale to Canada of M777 155mm Light-Weight Towed Howitzers as well as associated
equipment and services. The total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $114 million
http://www.dsca.osd.mil/PressReleases/36-b/2008/Canada_08-68.pdf
notinlove
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BARROW, UK – The U.S, Department of Defense has ordered 62 more M777 howitzers from BAE Systems in a deal worth $117 million (£71m).
U.S Buys 62 More BAE Systems M777 Guns - BAE Systems
So their Howitzers cost 1.88 mil a piece while ours cost 4.4 mil a piece...:twizt:
I smell Kickbacks..:stinker:
U.S Buys 62 More BAE Systems M777 Guns - BAE Systems
So their Howitzers cost 1.88 mil a piece while ours cost 4.4 mil a piece...:twizt:
I smell Kickbacks..:stinker:
sandeepdg
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NSG, Mig-35 is a helicopter gunship and not a transport helicopter. Yes the Mi-17 has a carrying capability of 13 tonnes which is more than enough to carry the 3.7 tonne M777 and other than that there is the Mi-26, the mother of all helis.
pankaj nema
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well friends there were reports of India having tried Krab AS 90 [polish] and MSTA 2 S19 {russian} for its SP artillery regiments.
any news what happened and which might be bought to replace Abott or is DRDO coming up with something indigenious.
any news what happened and which might be bought to replace Abott or is DRDO coming up with something indigenious.
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One thing should be made clear to the DRDO and it's associate departments"THIS BUYING GUNS CANNOT GO ON FOREVER" it's high time they got their act together and built one, if they can build a licensed version they can sure as hell build an indigenous howitzer. We built the Indian field gun 105mm and light field gun 75mm some time ago .we can build a 155mm gun if we want to only the push is required.
the 155mm is not a field gun but a howitzer. Just look at what the DRDO has done with the LCA or the Trishul missile or the Arjun tank. Huge cost overruns and inordinate delays. It would be far better to buy imported stuff than trust the incompetent DRDO. Even if they succeed in doing anything that would only be with foreign collaboration.
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Building a gun depends on mainly one science Metallurgy, by building and successfully fielding the 105mm and 75mm Indian field guns we have proven that our base is solid. While i agree that initially the DRDO or private players may require some tech help, we have some experience in building 155mm guns as well(we have upgraded some 130mm M-46's with the help of SOLTAM to 155MM 39 cal pieces).We should start building our indigenous guns now.In fact we should have started yesterday.
neo29
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We shouldnt worry about the howitzers from US and the sanctions that may cause problems. As long the shells are made by india or imported from else where , the howitzers will be functional even on a sanction.
Its the advanced technology and maintenance hardware like fighters that we should worry about , in case a sanction is placed.
Its the advanced technology and maintenance hardware like fighters that we should worry about , in case a sanction is placed.
ppgj
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ST Kinetics denies blacklisting
Saturday, January 16, 2010
By Saurabh Joshi
The Singapore-based arms firm, ST (Singapore Technologies) Kinetics, which was earlier reported to have been blacklisted, has questioned such a description of itself and has offered its books up for scrutiny by Indian agencies.
The Indian Ministry of Defense had blacklisted ST Kinetics besides six other companies in June last year for alleged involvement in the deals tainted by corruption discovered with the arrest of the former Director General of Ordinance Factories, Sudipta Ghosh.
ST Kinetics was cleared to proceed for trials of its products last December, subject to the report submitted by the CBI (Central Bureau of Investigation), which is investigating the allegations of corruption.
Brigadier General Patrick Choy, Executive Vice President at Singapore Technologies Engineering stressed his company hasn’t been blacklisted and that the CBI has written a letter to the Indian Ministry of External Affairs, a few months ago, clarifying that the company had not been blacklisted. “We haven’t committed any misdemeanors,” said Choy.
According to him, ST Kinetics decided to pitch its products to India with local partners to establish a base here and cater to any offset requirements that may come up. They offered their assault rifle to the OFB (Ordinance Factories Board), which was tested and approved by both the OFB as well as the Ministry of Home Affairs. The company then applied to the Ministry of Defense for a collaboration with the OFB on May 15 last year, but two days later, an FIR (First Information Report) was lodged against the OFB Director General Sudipta Ghosh by the CBI alleging corruption, which put a stop to the process and all operations with the company were put on hold the following month.
General Choy said the company had written to the Indian government, offering full cooperation with the CBI. “We met the CBI in October and some senior officials of the CBI in Singapore in November-end. We have answered all the questions the CBI asked. But until today the company is not clear as to exactly what the issues are. We have not been told specifically about any allegations,” he said.
“We have made an offer to the CBI to open our books. The CBI can send a team to audit our books. We have very strict corporate governance rules, with limits to the usage of cash and due diligence,” stressed Choy.
The Indian Army is to conduct trials of the iFH 2000 Towed Howitzer next month. ST Kinetics is also offering India its 155 mm 39 Caliber Pegasus Light Weight Howitzer, its SAR 21 assault rifle, as well as its Spider Light Strike Vehicle. However, the Indian Chief of Army Staff (COAS) General Deepak Kapoor indicated on Thursday that the government was also looking looking at the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) route to acquire light guns, in case the it was unable for any reason to procure them through an open tender process. The Telegraph had reported earlier this month that India would be looking to purchase light guns through FMS from the US.
ST Kinetics denies blacklisting | StratPost
Saturday, January 16, 2010
By Saurabh Joshi
The Singapore-based arms firm, ST (Singapore Technologies) Kinetics, which was earlier reported to have been blacklisted, has questioned such a description of itself and has offered its books up for scrutiny by Indian agencies.
The Indian Ministry of Defense had blacklisted ST Kinetics besides six other companies in June last year for alleged involvement in the deals tainted by corruption discovered with the arrest of the former Director General of Ordinance Factories, Sudipta Ghosh.
ST Kinetics was cleared to proceed for trials of its products last December, subject to the report submitted by the CBI (Central Bureau of Investigation), which is investigating the allegations of corruption.
Brigadier General Patrick Choy, Executive Vice President at Singapore Technologies Engineering stressed his company hasn’t been blacklisted and that the CBI has written a letter to the Indian Ministry of External Affairs, a few months ago, clarifying that the company had not been blacklisted. “We haven’t committed any misdemeanors,” said Choy.
According to him, ST Kinetics decided to pitch its products to India with local partners to establish a base here and cater to any offset requirements that may come up. They offered their assault rifle to the OFB (Ordinance Factories Board), which was tested and approved by both the OFB as well as the Ministry of Home Affairs. The company then applied to the Ministry of Defense for a collaboration with the OFB on May 15 last year, but two days later, an FIR (First Information Report) was lodged against the OFB Director General Sudipta Ghosh by the CBI alleging corruption, which put a stop to the process and all operations with the company were put on hold the following month.
General Choy said the company had written to the Indian government, offering full cooperation with the CBI. “We met the CBI in October and some senior officials of the CBI in Singapore in November-end. We have answered all the questions the CBI asked. But until today the company is not clear as to exactly what the issues are. We have not been told specifically about any allegations,” he said.
“We have made an offer to the CBI to open our books. The CBI can send a team to audit our books. We have very strict corporate governance rules, with limits to the usage of cash and due diligence,” stressed Choy.
The Indian Army is to conduct trials of the iFH 2000 Towed Howitzer next month. ST Kinetics is also offering India its 155 mm 39 Caliber Pegasus Light Weight Howitzer, its SAR 21 assault rifle, as well as its Spider Light Strike Vehicle. However, the Indian Chief of Army Staff (COAS) General Deepak Kapoor indicated on Thursday that the government was also looking looking at the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) route to acquire light guns, in case the it was unable for any reason to procure them through an open tender process. The Telegraph had reported earlier this month that India would be looking to purchase light guns through FMS from the US.
ST Kinetics denies blacklisting | StratPost
ppgj
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ST Kinetics says to begin India gun trials soon
BY : Reuters
ST Kinetics, an arm of Singapore Technologies Engineering, said it will begin India trials of its 155 MM Towed Howitzer guns for the army in a month.
“There are two programmes, towed guns and light guns,” Patrick Choy, chief marketing officer of ST Kinetics told reporters.
Singapore Technologies is the world’s largest aircraft repair firm.
India is upgrading its largely Soviet-era arsenal to counter potential threats from Pakistan and China with a series of acquisitions.
The Indian army needs new weapons urgently as the Bofors Howitzers were its last major acquisition, made back in 1986.
India is now seeking heavy-lift helicopters, submarines, ships and artillery for its army, valued at millions of dollars, a KPMG report said this week.
ST Kinetics says to begin India gun trials soon idrw.org
BY : Reuters
ST Kinetics, an arm of Singapore Technologies Engineering, said it will begin India trials of its 155 MM Towed Howitzer guns for the army in a month.
“There are two programmes, towed guns and light guns,” Patrick Choy, chief marketing officer of ST Kinetics told reporters.
Singapore Technologies is the world’s largest aircraft repair firm.
India is upgrading its largely Soviet-era arsenal to counter potential threats from Pakistan and China with a series of acquisitions.
The Indian army needs new weapons urgently as the Bofors Howitzers were its last major acquisition, made back in 1986.
India is now seeking heavy-lift helicopters, submarines, ships and artillery for its army, valued at millions of dollars, a KPMG report said this week.
ST Kinetics says to begin India gun trials soon idrw.org
plugwater
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8ak - Indian Defence News: ST Kinetics looks to the future with its Bronco All Terrain Vehicle for India
Jan 2010 8ak: Singapore Technologies Kinetics (ST Kinetics/STK) held a press conference to openly discuss the blacklisting issue that has plagued it since May 2009 and stopped the trials in India of the badly needed ultra light and towed gun trials. Firstly it said that it had never been blacklisted, rather it's gun trials were stopped while a CBI investigation was going on in relation to the corruption enquiry of Sudipto Ghosh from the Ordnance Factory Board.
Brig Gen Patrick Choy said that when there are allegations of corruptions, a nation has every right to investigate the case and since it is a public listed company on the Singapore stock exchange, its book are open and it was fully co-operating in the investigation. When questioned about what dealings were under investigation, Brig Choy said that STK was in discussion with the OFB for sourcing barrels for the SAR 21 Lightweight Assault Rifle to meet their offset obligations in case the gun was selected. Since the MoD has now allowed it to go ahead with the trials they expect to trial this gun in Feb 2010.
Brig Choy said that STK despite setbacks it continues to be bullish about the Indian market and sees a US$3 billion business potential here. Talking about their tenders, they said that the 155mm towed gun is to be trialled in Feb 2010, their light strike vehicle was under evaluation and they have responded to carbine tenders from the Ministry of Home Affairs.
With the press conference, ST Kinetics said that they would now look to focus on the future and would soon start marketing their all terrain vehicle to India. Suitable for high altitude to desert environments, the ATV has successfully been sold to the UK Armed Forces and currently deployed in Afghanistan.
Separately, 8ak's report that the Indian government was going to choose the FMS route to buy BAE's Ultra Light Howitzer (ULH) would be a big setback for STK and its third negative experience in India so far. STK's ULH has been in Gwalior since mid last year and STK did not take it back since it was confident of winning the tender. Some sources said that even though STK is partly owned by the first family of Singapore, the Singaporean government does not actively support it as other governments support their industries.
Jan 2010 8ak: Singapore Technologies Kinetics (ST Kinetics/STK) held a press conference to openly discuss the blacklisting issue that has plagued it since May 2009 and stopped the trials in India of the badly needed ultra light and towed gun trials. Firstly it said that it had never been blacklisted, rather it's gun trials were stopped while a CBI investigation was going on in relation to the corruption enquiry of Sudipto Ghosh from the Ordnance Factory Board.
Brig Gen Patrick Choy said that when there are allegations of corruptions, a nation has every right to investigate the case and since it is a public listed company on the Singapore stock exchange, its book are open and it was fully co-operating in the investigation. When questioned about what dealings were under investigation, Brig Choy said that STK was in discussion with the OFB for sourcing barrels for the SAR 21 Lightweight Assault Rifle to meet their offset obligations in case the gun was selected. Since the MoD has now allowed it to go ahead with the trials they expect to trial this gun in Feb 2010.
Brig Choy said that STK despite setbacks it continues to be bullish about the Indian market and sees a US$3 billion business potential here. Talking about their tenders, they said that the 155mm towed gun is to be trialled in Feb 2010, their light strike vehicle was under evaluation and they have responded to carbine tenders from the Ministry of Home Affairs.
With the press conference, ST Kinetics said that they would now look to focus on the future and would soon start marketing their all terrain vehicle to India. Suitable for high altitude to desert environments, the ATV has successfully been sold to the UK Armed Forces and currently deployed in Afghanistan.
Separately, 8ak's report that the Indian government was going to choose the FMS route to buy BAE's Ultra Light Howitzer (ULH) would be a big setback for STK and its third negative experience in India so far. STK's ULH has been in Gwalior since mid last year and STK did not take it back since it was confident of winning the tender. Some sources said that even though STK is partly owned by the first family of Singapore, the Singaporean government does not actively support it as other governments support their industries.
