Indian Army Artillery

[Enquirer]

1500-2000 ATAGS are assured.

Looks like Dhanush-52 will take care of mounted gun system

But ATAGS as a SPG should be interesting if DRDO mounts it on their Arjun Chassis. Hope to see some news on this soon

If not more K9 will be ordered.


Hilarious how just a few years ago Pakis were having wet dreams about having superior arty to IA, they didn’t factor in having a nationalist as PM!

Another 5 years of Modi will change the entire national security outlook of India.

Can only shudder at the thought of a CONgress coalition govt coming back, we can be certain India’s MIC would be dismantled and security gradually weakened.

I doubt that more K9 type tracked howitzers will be ordered. The 100 on order are to go into the 'strike corps'. Unless IA wants to raise new strike corps (unlikely in the medium term) tracked howitzers won't be needed.

MGS & Towed guns however will be required in 1000s. These are not my opinions, but according to IA's field rationalization plan.

 

[proud_indian]

I doubt that more K9 type tracked howitzers will be ordered. The 100 on order are to go into the 'strike corps'. Unless IA wants to raise new strike corps (unlikely in the medium term) tracked howitzers won't be needed.

MGS & Towed guns however will be required in 1000s. These are not my opinions, but according to IA's field rationalization plan.

This was the procurement plan a few years ago (that we can only laugh at)

I think you are right we don't need more tracked guns (as per the above list) but can anyone tell me what is this "wheeled self-propelled gun" (no. 3 in the list). I have never heard of this. what is the difference between this and the mounted gun system?

 

[shiphone]

DANA 152mm and the 155mm varients.

G6 Rhino.

 

[Enquirer]

This was the procurement plan a few years ago (that we can only laugh at)

I think you are right we don't need more tracked guns (as per the above list) but can anyone tell me what is this "wheeled self-propelled gun" (no. 3 in the list). I have never heard of this. what is the difference between this and the mounted gun system?

The below pictures depict the 'wheeled self-propelled guns' (which are distinct from Truck mounted gun systems!)

Important thing to note is that several global vendors don't see much distinction/advantages between the various nuanced categorization and actually profess/sell 'Truck mounted gun systems" and don't even want to care about 'towed gun systems'.

However given that Indian Army has done it's so called field rationalization (if there's anything rational at all in it) that calls for 1000s of self-propelled guns (like ATAGS & Dhanush), they've gone ahead and engineered those in the hopes of selling it to IA! Before jingos jump on and give weird explanations on how rational IA was in it's thinking, it's good to reflect upon the fact that that so called IA field artillery plan was drawn up several decades ago, based on the kinds available at that time - however given the inertia in the Indian system, the same old plan will get operationalized. Global vendors, of course, will give you any shit you want as long as you can fill their coffers! Several vendors actually call their 'towed guns' as 'India specific' guns!

 

[ezsasa]

As far the Indian Army's Artillery Corps is concerned, it has the following 155 mm tube artillery systems in the pipeline: 100 x K-9 Vajra SPH, 145 x M-777 ULH, 114 X OFB Dhanush, 300 x OFB M-46 howitzer conversion, 150 x DRDO ATAGS. P.S: I am looking at what has been approved.

So 809 units in all. Enough to equip almost 45 medium regiments.

 

[Hari Sud]

As far the Indian Army's Artillery Corps is concerned, it has the following 155 mm tube artillery systems in the pipeline: 100 x K-9 Vajra SPH, 145 x M-777 ULH, 114 X OFB Dhanush, 300 x OFB M-46 howitzer conversion, 150 x DRDO ATAGS. P.S: I am looking at what has been approved.

So 809 units in all. Enough to equip almost 45 medium regiments.

How much added firepower these artillery system - 47 regiments will give to the Indian army.

As Stalin said that Artillery is God of the War. As per American war college theories that artillery independently should inflict defeat on the enemy. ... Have India reached that stage or there is some distance to go.

 

[Prashant12]

Bharat Forge expects orders for up to 4,000 guns from army; looks to become global player

The Indian army requires 3,000-4,000 artillery weaponry in the next 15 years, said Baba Kalyani, CMD of Bharat Forge.

The defence ministry has approved the purchase of 150 advanced towed artillery gun systems at a cost of over Rs 3,300 crores. "This is a positive for Bharat Forge. There is the added tailwind of the new NAFTA agreement as well," he said.

"I think there will be many more opportunities that will come but this is a very good and a game-changing decision that the government has made,” he added.

Kalyani said that the company was aiming to become a global leader in artillery.

"In the next seven years, we want to be at the top of the league as far as artillery systems are concerned on a worldwide basis,” said Kalyani.

“In two to two and a half years, the order will get completed. This is a fully indigenous equipment, completely right from steel to forgings to machining to everything else, so hopefully we will do well,” said Kalyani.

http://www.defencenews.in/article/B...om-army;-looks-to-become-global-player-570279

 

[surya kiran]

How much added firepower these artillery system - 47 regiments will give to the Indian army.

As Stalin said that Artillery is God of the War. As per American war college theories that artillery independently should inflict defeat on the enemy. ... Have India reached that stage or there is some distance to go.

1. If you want have any kind of offensive strategy, you need artillery power.
2. If you are going to fight in the mountains, you need artillery power.

 

[Raj Malhotra]

Army procurement system is controlled by Dalal s

Dhanush has been ready since 2013

Initially the orders was supposed to be 1500 Plus

But they were reduced to 414

There after they were again reduced to 144

Even this reduced order was not allowed to be produced by import mad Army.

It seems that only a batch of 12 has been cleared for production.

In order to further delay production apart from usual pretext of trials after trials, a new pretext has been created for improved product

So a gentle campaign was started for 52 calibre Dhanush instead of 45 calibre Thana

After ofb tested 52 calibre Dhanush now the focus has been shifted to ATAGS

Dhanush has not been ordered in spite of 5 years of successful Trials

ATAGS TRIALS HAVE JUST STARTED AND the order will be delayed at least till 2025 by more and more trials

In the meanwhile BAE has already offered 52 calibre M 777

Therefore dalaks will try to get the army to order 1500 calibre M 777 and thereafter additional 52 calibre M 777

It would be easy to kill atags by simply saying it is too heavy just like Arjun

Smerch andBrahmos lobby has already prevented and delayed development and induction of pinaka 3, prahhar & pralay

 

[vampyrbladez]

Army procurement system is controlled by Dalal s

Dhanush has been ready since 2013

Initially the orders was supposed to be 1500 Plus

But they were reduced to 414

There after they were again reduced to 144

Even this reduced order was not allowed to be produced by import mad Army.

It seems that only a batch of 12 has been cleared for production.

In order to further delay production apart from usual pretext of trials after trials, a new pretext has been created for improved product

So a gentle campaign was started for 52 calibre Dhanush instead of 45 calibre Thana

After ofb tested 52 calibre Dhanush now the focus has been shifted to ATAGS

Dhanush has not been ordered in spite of 5 years of successful Trials

ATAGS TRIALS HAVE JUST STARTED AND the order will be delayed at least till 2025 by more and more trials

In the meanwhile BAE has already offered 52 calibre M 777

Therefore dalaks will try to get the army to order 1500 calibre M 777 and thereafter additional 52 calibre M 777

It would be easy to kill atags by simply saying it is too heavy just like Arjun

Smerch andBrahmos lobby has already prevented and delayed development and induction of pinaka 3, prahhar & pralay

Most of this is badly researched data so I'll have to sift by points:

• No as per DPP 2016, procurement is by CCS and MoD. Army tells GoI what it wants and GoI asks MoD for quotation from MoF. Then a Strategic Partner is chosen for ToT and JV with local partner in cooperation with PSU and OEM.
• Dhanush has actually been ready since 2004 in one form or another. OFB lacked production facility and with 50% staff as reservation flunkies then UPA lagard attitude work continued at a snail's pace. M-46 155 mm upgrade plane by OFB used Bofors plans due to concerns for barrel metallurgy.

• The number 1500 is for total procurement including foreign tender.
• 414 is total order for Dhanush, 144 is 45 cal, rest is 52 cal.
• 12 Dhanush has already been made with 6 more ready to be handed over for a total of 18 by March 2019 following which BPC will be accorded for full 144 guns.
• 150 ATAGS have been cleared by MoD for procurement by Army. Post 2021 BPC will be accorded.
• M777 is just getting upgraded to 52 cal by US Army engineers. They will first meet their needs and then export. The whole thing has been made to backfit older guns under designation M777ER.
• Arjun Mk2 will remain in trials till indigenous content increases for short term. As of now it is cheaper to buy T 90 MS than Arjun.
• Pinaka is being pushed for domestic production and hiccups in production line are being resolved in tandem to upgrades. Even foreign export has brightened post Armenian interest.

https://www.business-standard.com/a...sed-even-after-10-yrs-cag-118080701117_1.html

http://zeenews.india.com/india/drdo...rocket-ammunition-for-arjun-tank-2131002.html

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...em-on-armenias-radar/articleshow/65536066.cms

http://www.newindianexpress.com/sta...nded-range-pinaka-tastes-success-1859318.html

 

[Raj Malhotra]

Relying on paid News to get well researched data?

Bottom line :- Bulk production cleared Neither for Dhanush nor ATAGS. Rest is word play

 

[Chinmoy]

Relying on paid News to get well researched data?

Bottom line :- Bulk production cleared Neither for Dhanush nor ATAGS. Rest is word play

Another bottom line.... M777 too is undergoing trials for last 1 year and non being inducted till date.

 

[vampyrbladez]

well researched data

Either provide a rebuttal or sit and learn. It takes time but you emerge more knowledgeable.

 

[Compersion]

More fascinating is the announcement of the pakis buying - getting (second hand and otherwise) artillery. make them spend more, please ... more and more and everyone will question where they get the money from.

hence it is good to announce "some" of your deliveries.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

South African firm Denel taken off the defence blacklist after settlement agreement

Arms manufacturer Denel has been taken off an Indian defence ministry blacklist after the South African company signed a settlement agreement that waived off almost $ 100 million that it would have been entitled to following arbitration proceedings.

The final settlement agreement was signed on July 19, days ahead of a BRICS summit in Johannesburg that will be attended by Prime Minister Narendra Modi, and details how the company was put on the blacklist in 2005, on the basis of two newspaper reports in South Africa. Charges of corruption in the news reports could not be validated during a subsequent CBI inquiry, leading it to file a closure case in 2014.

Formal orders to take Denel off the blacklist were issued on Wednesday, bringing an end to a 13 year exile for the company from the world’s largest market for military imports. While it was cleared of all charges in 2014, it was unable to restart work in the lucrative arms market as legal proceedings were on for several past deals where India had frozen or encashed its bank guarantees.

After the suspension of operations, all ongoing contracts with Indian defence ministry entities had been cancelled, leading to litigation and arbitration that went on for years. ET has learnt that the company has agreed to forfeit almost $ 100 million for the right to come back to the Indian market and a removal from the official blacklist.

The South African entity, which also has joint ventures with debarred firm Rheinmetall, has been keen for a return to the Indian market after the Modi government opened doors for partnerships with private sector companies for major manufacturing projects. Several rounds of meetings have been held with the private sector over the past two years, including companies that have recently entered the defence market. The company is particularly suited for upcoming orders for ammunition supplies to the armed forces in which Indian companies have to create new facilities.

The company’s troubles in India started in 2005, after the defence ministry put all contracts with it on hold. Investigations probed two contracts that the firm had signed in India, a Rs 78 crore deal for procurement of 400 anti material rifles and a Rs 66 crore transfer of technology contract with the Ordnance Factory Board but failed to find any proof of corruption

 

[Hari Sud]

South African firm Denel taken off the defence blacklist after settlement agreement

Arms manufacturer Denel has been taken off an Indian defence ministry blacklist after the South African company signed a settlement agreement that waived off almost $ 100 million that it would have been entitled to following arbitration proceedings.

The final settlement agreement was signed on July 19, days ahead of a BRICS summit in Johannesburg that will be attended by Prime Minister Narendra Modi, and details how the company was put on the blacklist in 2005, on the basis of two newspaper reports in South Africa. Charges of corruption in the news reports could not be validated during a subsequent CBI inquiry, leading it to file a closure case in 2014.

Formal orders to take Denel off the blacklist were issued on Wednesday, bringing an end to a 13 year exile for the company from the world’s largest market for military imports. While it was cleared of all charges in 2014, it was unable to restart work in the lucrative arms market as legal proceedings were on for several past deals where India had frozen or encashed its bank guarantees.

After the suspension of operations, all ongoing contracts with Indian defence ministry entities had been cancelled, leading to litigation and arbitration that went on for years. ET has learnt that the company has agreed to forfeit almost $ 100 million for the right to come back to the Indian market and a removal from the official blacklist.

The South African entity, which also has joint ventures with debarred firm Rheinmetall, has been keen for a return to the Indian market after the Modi government opened doors for partnerships with private sector companies for major manufacturing projects. Several rounds of meetings have been held with the private sector over the past two years, including companies that have recently entered the defence market. The company is particularly suited for upcoming orders for ammunition supplies to the armed forces in which Indian companies have to create new facilities.

The company’s troubles in India started in 2005, after the defence ministry put all contracts with it on hold. Investigations probed two contracts that the firm had signed in India, a Rs 78 crore deal for procurement of 400 anti material rifles and a Rs 66 crore transfer of technology contract with the Ordnance Factory Board but failed to find any proof of corruption

Most of the type and suppliers decisions on artillery have been made. Denel, although a front runner in 2004 was beset with underhand dealings hence lost to Dhanush, ATAGS, Vajara etc. Now there is no need to diversify suppliers any more.

 

[Prashant12]

Vajra hits target during Pokhran test


JAISALMER: On Thursday, Army successfully test fired from indigenous advanced gun K9-Vajra-T (long range) which hit the target at Pokhran field firing range in Jaisalmer. The gun has a range to fire up to 40-50km.


On Thursday, 6 rounds were fired successfully from the Howitzer after the 13 modifications weredone in the gun. Senior officers of army and L&T were present during the trial. The gun developed and built by developed by Larsen and Toubro (L&T). The gun has detection advanced system of chemical & nuclear weapon which has GPS and navigation system and automatic MO loading system.

The howitzer is specially designed for arid lands such as the desert areas western bordering Pakistan. Artillery of Indian army will soon get total 100 indigenous gun K9 Vajra-T(Thunder) 155mm/52 calibre to deal with new challenges it get from china and Pakistan. The fire power capability will improve more from the howitzer. Till now Indian Army receive 10 guns and soon Indian Army will get balance 90 guns, According to the official sources, the latest advanced version K9 VAJRA-T 155mm/ 52 calibre hit target in Pokharan field firing range in the presence of Army and L&T officials. Trials were done and it will undergo more trials in upcoming days.

The ‘Vajra’, a 155 mm howitzer was ordered by the Indian Army in April 2017 after a global competition that was won by Larsen and Toubro. The guns are being made in India with a partnership with Hanwha Techwin of South Korea with an initial order of 100 that is valued at Rs. 4500 crore which is to be supplied to the Indian army in 42 months. The gun will be deployed along the western border to take on a Pakistani battlefield edge in mobile artillery. The weight of howitzer is about 45 Ton. The speed of gun movement is 60-70km/ hour. A manufacturing unit is being set up at Hajiza Gujrat and 10 guns have already been delivered in last 10 months to Indian Army.

Source said K-9 Vajra-T tracked self-propelled howitzer meets the requirements of 21st-century warfare. The howitzer is capable of proving deep fire support with its longer firing range, has qualitative superiority to overcome a numerical inferiority with its higher rate of fire and accuracy along with effective and reliable fire support in all kinds of circumstances with its higher mobility and protection. 13 Modifications more has been done seeing the requirement of Indian Army. There is special system known as MRSI (Multiple round simultaneous impact) which fire 3 round in 15 seconds.

Source said it is specially designed for arid lands such as the desert areas bordering Pakistan. Mounted on a tracked vehicle, the K-9 Vajra is ideally suited for mobile tank warfare. This howitzer could be induct into its mechanized strike corps to offer close fire support during deep thrusts into enemy territory. With the howitzer a vehicle carry with it. Vehicle is known as KT-10 (Automatic Re-ammunition Supply Van) whose as capacity of 104 round.

Source said K9 VAJRA-T is a variant of the South Korean K9 Thunder which is considered to be the world's best 155mm/52 calibre self propelled howitzer in terms of the number of systems in active service.


https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...-during-pokhran-test/articleshow/65802936.cms

 

[Prashant12]

Gun-novation: Indigenous Truck-Mounted Howitzer to undergo firing trials in November

An indigenously designed, developed and manufactured truck mounted howitzer is to undergo its maiden firing trials in November this year.

The Mounted Gun System (MGS) developed by the Gun Carriage Factory (GCF) Jabalpur was first unveiled at the Defexpo in Chennai this April.


Senior Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) officials told India Today that the internal firing trials at the Proof Establishment in Balasore would validate not just the gun but also its integration with the 8x8 Tatra vehicle on which it is mounted.

The test of a new gun system - the fifth type in a series of Army howitzer requirement projected nearly two decades ago - comes at a time when the Army has begun receiving its first guns in over 30 years.

This year the Army will start inducting M-777 Ultra Light Howitzers and K-9 Vajra self-propelled howitzers and has received a first batch of six Dhanush howitzers, India's first indigenously developed long range howitzer, after they successfully completed firing trials in Leh and Pokhran.

Mounted Gun System developed by Gun Carriage Factory Jabalpur was first unveiled at Defexpo in Chennai this April | Photo courtesy: Sandeep Unnithan

No new artillery had been purchased since the bribery scandal that followed the March 1986 deal for 41 FH-77B Bofors howitzers.

MOUNTED GUN SYSTEM

Unlike towed artillery which have to be hauled into the battlefield by multi-wheeled trucks, MGS' are guns mounted on a high-mobility truck. These guns can be brought into battle much faster, carry 18 artillery shells on board and are useful to support mobile infantry in the plains and deserts.

The MGS has a range of over 40 km and will be offered to the Army for user trails after several rounds of internal trials.

Apart from the fact that it is Indian designed, developed and manufactured, one of the biggest advantages of our gun is its commonality of spares, functionality and training with the Army's existing Bofors and Dhanush howitzers.
- A senior OFB official told India Today
The gun has a modular design with shoot and scoot capability and can fire in all weather conditions and by day and night. It has a GPS aided Inertial Navigation System and a day and night firing capability.

It carries a backup emergency power pack and its all-wheel drive ensures maximum traction in cross-country operations. The specially modified truck has hydraulically operated rear stabilisers to steady the vehicle while firing. The cabin has been reinforced to withstand the shock waves during operations.

Mounted Gun System developed by Gun Carriage Factory Jabalpur was first unveiled at Defexpo in Chennai this April | Photo courtesy: Sandeep Unnithan

Designed by GCF Jabalpur, the MGS builds on the OFB's successful Dhanush 155x45 mm howitzer. The Dhanush was built from blueprints supplied by the Swedish gun maker as part of the 1986 purchase. The Army has indicated a total requirement of 414 howitzers.

The MGS is being developed in anticipation of an order from the Army.
- An OFB official said
The Army's requirement for 814 MGS howitzers worth Rs 8,547 crore was given an Acceptance of Necessity (AON) by the Defence Acquisition Council in September 2011.

The AON has since expired and it is still unclear whether the Army will want such a system in the near-term.

Over the next five years, the Army will get 100 Vajras, 145 ULH, 114 Dhanush and 300 130 mm howitzers upgunned to 155 /45 caliber. I don't see a new howitzer programme on the horizon.
- Says Lt General P Ravi Shankar, former DG Artillery
BUY AND MAKE PROGRAMME

As many as 200 guns are to be bought off the shelf and the remainder to be built within the country through technology transfers to an Indian partner with all deliveries to be completed by the end of the 13th five-year defence plan ending in 2022.

OFB officials say they will pursue the MGS as an export case, in case the Army does not want the gun. The Dhanush, they say, has already received preliminary inquiries from prospective buyers in the Middle East.

FIELD ARTILLERY RATIONALISATION PLAN

The MGS is part of a massive purchase of over 2,800 howitzers as part of its Field Artillery Rationalisation Plan (FARP) launched after the Kargil War in 1999.

The FARP envisages standardising the artillery regiments into four types of howitzers-towed by trucks, mounted on a tank chassis, on a wheeled vehicle and ultra-light guns that can be airlifted into battle by helicopters.

Two of the Army's biggest procurements in the past four years were for howitzers - 145 M-777 Ultra-Light Howitzers for $737 million from the US in November 2016 and an April 2017 deal worth Rs 4,600 crore for 100 K-9 'Vajra' tracked howitzers from South Korea's Hanwa-Tecwin.

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/sto...owitzer-bofors-indian-army-1340143-2018-09-14

 

[Prashant12]

K9-Vajra-T hits target during trial in Pokhran


Jaisalmer: The Indian army, since Wednesday, has been successfully testing fire from indigenous advanced gun K9-Vajra-T (longe range), which on Thursday, hit the target at Pokhran Field Firing Range in Jaisalmer district. The gun has a range to fire up to 40-50km and trials will continue till Friday.
On Wednesday, six rounds were fired successfully from Howitzer and on Thursday, again six rounds were fired after the 13 modifications were done in the gun. Earlier, the trials were done in the same Pokhran Field Firing Range two weeks ago, on September 13 this year, and now again the trials have started. Senior officers of army and L&T were present during the trial.

The gun has been developed and built by manufacturer company Larsen and Toubro (L&T). The gun has an advanced system for detection of chemical & nuclear weapons, which has GPS and navigation system and automatic MO loading system.

The Howitzer is specially designed for arid lands such as the desert areas bordering Pakistan. Artillery of Indian army will soon get total 100 indigenous gun K9-Vajra-T (Thunder) 155mm/52 calibre, to deal with the new challenges posed by China and Pakistan. The fire power capability will improve more from the Howitzer. Till now, Indian army has received 10 guns and soon, it will get the balance 90 guns.

According to the official sources, the latest advanced version K9-Vajra-T 155mm/ 52 calibre, on Thursday hit the target in Pokhran Field Firing Range successfully, in the presence of army and L&T officials. The Vajra, a 155mm Howitzer, was ordered by the Indian army in April 2017, after a global competition was won by Larsen and Toubro. The guns are being made in India with a partnership with Hanwha Techwin of South Korea with an initial order of 100, which is valued at Rs 4500 crore, which is to be supplied to the Indian army in 42 months.

The gun will be deployed along the western border to give an edge over the Pakistani battlefield in mobile artillery. The weight of Howitzer is about 45 Tonnes. The speed of gun movement is 60-70km/hour. A manufacturing unit is being set up at Hajiza, Gujarat and 10 guns have already been delivered in the last 10 months to Indian army.

Source said that K9-Vajra-T tracked self-propelled Howitzer, meets the requirements of 21st century warfare. The Howitzer is capable of proving deep fire support with its longer firing range, has qualitative superiority to overcome a numerical inferiority, with its higher rate of fire and accuracy, along with effective and reliable fire support in all kinds of circumstances, with its higher mobility and protection. There is special system known as MRSI (multiple round simultaneous impact) which fires three rounds in 15 seconds.
Mounted on a tracked vehicle, the K9-Vajra is ideally suited for mobile tank warfare. This Howitzer could be inducted into mechanized strike corps to offer close fire support during deep thrusts into enemy territory.

Source said K9-Vajra-T is a variant of the South Korean K9-Thunder, which is considered to be the world’s best 155mm/52 calibre self-propelled Howitzer, in terms of the number of systems in active service.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...ing-trial-in-pokhran/articleshow/65986863.cms

 

[Pandeyji]

Source said K9-Vajra-T is a variant of the South Korean K9-Thunder, which is considered to be the world’s best 155mm/52 calibre self-propelled Howitzer, in terms of the number of systems in active service.

The obligatory filler required in all defence reporting from India. Sources said. BC, a google search would tell you this. Almost every Indian defence report is full of such inane stuff that is there to just fill space.