Indian Army Artillery

[Scrutator]

Get your basics first before acting know all, A little research would help, The information is shared by Government R&D department DRDO, This is available on open source, Best don`t ask for spoon feedings ..

In case it missed weight details, This 52cal weight only 12tons compare to similar system of 14tons-18ton monsters, Unmatched globally ..

Comparing apple vs oranges is not smart, Comparing 39cal with 52cal gun also quietly comparing sustain fire of ATAGS with Intense fire American gun of a different class, This is obvious ..

Bigger the chamber, More powder bags hence more power and longer range with higher velocity, Its simple math and saffers ( slang for south Africans which is offensive way to describe them ) got it from Gerald bull himself, Our Army is not made of fool who will issue such a requirement for no reason ..

Keep in mind this is not terrorist forum, We have a reputation here and we don`t allow trolls / big mouths ..

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Type-89 is not a 52cal gun but a 45cal gun which is copy of G-5 towed howitzer, Post replies with better knowledge, Know what it have compare to ATAGS and visa versa, China has a good industrial base which we lack but unlike us their R&D is more interested in copying ..

AH4 is a very old system and nothing new, Its rejected by PLA and offered for exports, Its specifications are claimed to be similar to M777 ..

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Its a pity that many Indians may know about what America or Russia is doing or their history but remain clueless about their own archivements, Its unfortunate that many chose it due to their inferiority complex which has no treatment ..

I love ATAGS, it's a awesome gun for India. So don't badger me or delete my post.

But I love truth and facts above everything else. The 12 ton weight was what was intended before they set out to do the detailed design and realize the product. Currently it's at 16 tons - it really doesn't make any difference though. There's a big-ass truck that will tow it. But let's keep things real!!!

 

[Adioz]

The 12 ton weight was what was intended before they set out to do the detailed design and realize the product. Currently it's at 16 tons - it really doesn't make any difference though. There's a big-ass truck that will tow it. But just let's keep things real!!!

I also want to keep things real. But bhaiya ji source do nahi to thread pe tabahi mach jaegi.

Some one might go ballistic (pun intended) 'cause of what you have claimed.

 

[Scrutator]

I also want to keep things real. But bhaiya ji source do nahi to thread pe tabahi mach jaegi.

Some one might go ballistic (pun intended) 'cause of what you have claimed.

Yeh loh bhaiyah, ee raha sourcewa!! Hame kahe padi ki khamakha tabahi machaye !!

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2016/12/indian-artillery-gun-shines-in-trials.html

"These enhanced performance attributes have increased the weight of ATAGS to 16 tonnes, a couple of tonnes heavier than comparable towed guns. The army is willing to accept a heavier gun that delivers significantly better performance."

The dude spoke to army/DRDO folks at the trials - nothing made up!!!

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The argument you are putting is based on prototypes specs and not production model, ATAGS requirement still remains 12 tons which part of general requirement, In future their will be many more prototype before production variant, Army is willing and that is might be true but nothing official yet published on government portal, Their have been no change to specs originally made for ATAGS, This is something very common for all weapon systems ..

Their is a reason it must be a 12ton or less >

1. Trucks lose their efficiency with respect to height which comes with rarity of air, ATAGS is meant for operating at high altitude as well, Terrain is a prime factor ..

2. For air-portability it has to be lighter, Now it is not known in what configuration or numbers a C-17 or IL-76MD will carry them ..

I love ATAGS, it's a awesome gun for India. So don't badger me or delete my post.

But I love truth and facts above everything else. The 12 ton weight was what was intended before they set out to do the detailed design and realize the product. Currently it's at 16 tons - it really doesn't make any difference though. There's a big-ass truck that will tow it. But let's keep things real!!!

Yeh loh bhaiyah, ee raha sourcewa!! Hame kahe padi ki khamakha tabahi machaye !!

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2016/12/indian-artillery-gun-shines-in-trials.html

"These enhanced performance attributes have increased the weight of ATAGS to 16 tonnes, a couple of tonnes heavier than comparable towed guns. The army is willing to accept a heavier gun that delivers significantly better performance."

The dude spoke to army/DRDO folks at the trials - nothing made up!!!

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Post related to Chinese artillery have moved here : http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/pla-vs-indian-army-on-lac-discussion-thread.25585/page-9

Read the thread and continue post there ..

 

[Amrk]

A few nice shots from the beautiful ATAGS

 

[Amrk]

I think people should reconcile themselves to the fact that a lot of world class def equipment would start to come from India.
Why do I say that? Think about this, we all know that Indian scientists are as good any of their peers. NASA , Intel, MS, Google and a lot of tech driven concerns are becoming more and more replete with Indian Scientists and engg. The problem was never with our scientific community but with Ind. gov. and its administrative skills, Antony years still disgust me. It is only natural that DRDO and other R&D facilities will start performing when under a competent leadership. Not only ATAGS but you can see the signs of this rapid capability rampup in the SLBM, Tejas and Kaveri, Varunashtra, Radars, HUMSA NG, USHIS, PAD, PDV and other programs.
As for ATAGS, forget about everything else, just look at the recoil system, then compare with other systems, you will realise that we have a winner at our hands even if you are an amateur defence enthusiast like me.

 

[Scrutator]

The argument you are putting is based on prototypes specs and not production model, ATAGS requirement still remains 12 tons which part of general requirement, In future their will be many more prototype before production variant, Army is willing and that is might be true but nothing official yet published on government portal, Their have been no change to specs originally made for ATAGS, This is something very common for all weapon systems ..

Their is a reason it must be a 12ton or less >

1. Trucks lose their efficiency with respect to height which comes with rarity of air, ATAGS is meant for operating at high altitude as well, Terrain is a prime factor ..

2. For air-portability it has to be lighter, Now it is not known in what configuration or numbers a C-17 or IL-76MD will carry them ..

With all due respect, what you're saying does not make much sense. Just look at the drawing of the ATAGS you've posted and look at the ATAGS that's being trialed and paraded on the Republic day - there's very little resemblance! (are you going to deny what you saw on the Republic day parade is actually ATAGS?)!! It is not hard to see where the additional weight has gone in. Initial drawings/specifications are normally very ambitious - they realize much of the 'intention' but end up making compromises in certain areas. In the ATAGS case, it appears that the features that led to additional weight is welcome by the Army.

Do you really think ATAGS will be skinned down to make it resemble the drawing that you posted, and also reduce the weight? There are two additional wheels added to accommodate the weight distribution!! There's talk about handing it off for user trials sometime this year itself !! If they don't reduce the weight to 12 tons and don't take off the 2 additional wheels, are you going to rant on this site that ATAGS is a big failure?? I think what's been achieved is great! We shouldn't be ostrich headed and accept reliable news and information (especially when it can be easily cross verified!!!).

 

[tejas warrior]

Regarding weight of ATAGS, Read what Ajay had reported :

These enhanced performance attributes have increased the weight of ATAGS to 16 tonnes, a couple of tonnes heavier than comparable towed guns. The army is willing to accept a heavier gun that delivers significantly better performance.

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2016/12/indian-artillery-gun-shines-in-trials.html?m=1

So, there is no question to raise on weight when Army is Happy to accept it considering better performance !!

How much Army is Happy, can be understood from fact that ATAGS prototypes marched in Republic Day Parade.

 

[Scrutator]

I think people should reconcile themselves to the fact that a lot of world class def equipment would start to come from India.
Why do I say that? Think about this, we all know that Indian scientists are as good any of their peers. NASA , Intel, MS, Google and a lot of tech driven concerns are becoming more and more replete with Indian Scientists and engg. The problem was never with our scientific community but with Ind. gov. and its administrative skills, Antony years still disgust me. It is only natural that DRDO and other R&D facilities will start performing when under a competent leadership. Not only ATAGS but you can see the signs of this rapid capability rampup in the SLBM, Tejas and Kaveri, Varunashtra, Radars, HUMSA NG, USHIS, PAD, PDV and other programs.
As for ATAGS, forget about everything else, just look at the recoil system, then compare with other systems, you will realise that we have a winner at our hands even if you are an amateur defence enthusiast like me.

(forget world for a moment) If a LOT of INDIAN defense equipment comes from India itself then that would be a BIG win in itself (billions of $$ saved). International markets will eventually develop for Indian equipment, which will be a huge bonus too!

 

[Hemu Vikram Aditya]

Antony years still disgust me.

:biggrin2:
Someone asked this question on quora

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Their are no source talks about these prototypes are final and production models, Your conclusion is fast and based on prototype specs, Their will be more on the way ..

Their is very little information on net to get on a steady conclusion, For example we don`t know which prototype Ajay Shukla was talking about nor we know about in depth information about two different prototypes except some ideas from their outer differences, Their are plenty of technologies are being tested on these prototypes and not just its firepower ..

You can come back and reply me, If you have some official conformation about which prototype got selected for mass production and why ..

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It is expected to have a least 4 prototypes of ATAGS before the 5th one get selected for production, This information is not official though.

With all due respect, what you're saying does not make much sense. Just look at the drawing of the ATAGS you've posted and look at the ATAGS that's being trialed and paraded on the Republic day - there's very little resemblance! (are you going to deny what you saw on the Republic day parade is actually ATAGS?)!! It is not hard to see where the additional weight has gone in. Initial drawings/specifications are normally very ambitious - they realize much of the 'intention' but end up making compromises in certain areas. In the ATAGS case, it appears that the features that led to additional weight is welcome by the Army.

View attachment 13770

Do you really think ATAGS will be skinned down to make it resemble the drawing that you posted, and also reduce the weight? There are two additional wheels added to accommodate the weight distribution!! There's talk about handing it off for user trials sometime this year itself !! If they don't reduce the weight to 12 tons and don't take off the 2 additional wheels, are you going to rant on this site that ATAGS is a big failure?? I think what's been achieved is great! We shouldn't be ostrich headed and accept reliable news and information (especially when it can be easily cross verified!!!).

 

[Kunal Biswas]

M204 105mm towed howitzer (type-classified in the mid-1970s but not produced / fielded), Something Mandus group is reproducing in new avatar for good ..

Must watch, It has gud insight ..

 

[Scrutator]

Their are no source talks about these prototypes are final and production models, Your conclusion is fast and based on prototype specs, Their will be more on the way ..

Their is very little information on net to get on a steady conclusion, For example we don`t know which prototype Ajay Shukla was talking about nor we know about in depth information about two different prototypes except some ideas from their outer differences, Their are plenty of technologies are being tested on these prototypes and not just its firepower ..

You can come back and reply me, If you have some official conformation about which prototype got selected for mass production and why ..

========

It is expected to have a least 4 prototypes of ATAGS before the 5th one get selected for production, This information is not official though.

It'll probably go through some fine tuning and minor redesign/patch-work based on the user feedback; but it is unlikely to shed 25% of the weight. While no one can estimate weight by looking at how big something is, one thing folks can be sure of is that additional wheels does mean that there's extra weight added (this is unlikely to change between prototypes)!!

At this time no one seems to be complaining - the only place the 12 tons weight is an issue seems to be in a dumb argument with wisemarko. I think ATAGS is world class even if it doesn't end up being the lightest (those attributes are good for sales sheets/pitches, that's all)!

Let's all cheer up Let's not mourn a success!!!

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Its a part of requirement by Army, Though their is a long journey and in time we will know about final outcome ..

Regarding weight and number of wheels, Its their because of larger Power unit and not with respect to weight, This power unit will be compact in size in time, Dhanush 52cal has most of the qualities of ATAGS but its not selected for various reason and prime issue was the weight ..

The future is indeed, Interesting .. !

 

[Scrutator]

Dhanush 52cal has most of the qualities of ATAGS but its not selected for various reason and prime issue was the weight ..

Thought Dhanush-52 just replaced the barrel of Dhanush-45! So Dhanush-52 is dead? That means no 52 cal gun till ATAGS is ready for production?? There was some murmur that 300 Dhanush-52 could be built (300 being the remaining part of the original intent of 414 Dhanush guns when only 114 of Dhanush-45 were ordered).

 

[Kunal Biswas]

They did not just change the barrel but as well as other details and one was new power unit..

Army intend to have light weight 52cals to form its backbone, Until that 45cal Dhanush which is 10ton in weight will be for production ..

Thought Dhanush-52 just replaced the barrel of Dhanush-45! So Dhanush-52 is dead? That means no 52 cal gun till ATAGS is ready for production?? There was some murmur that 300 Dhanush-52 could be built (300 being the remaining part of the original intent of 414 Dhanush guns when only 114 of Dhanush-45 were ordered).

 

[Scrutator]

They did not just change the barrel but as well as other details and one was new power unit..

Army intend to have light weight 52cals to form its backbone, Until that 45cal Dhanush which is 10ton in weight will be for production ..

Hmmm...Just last month Parrikar made the announcement that 155/52 was in the 'final' stages of being ordered. What changed in the last 4 weeks?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Like i said before in many posts, Wait and see how things goes ..

I suggest wait rather make assumptions ..

Hmmm...Just last month Parrikar made the announcement that 155/52 was in the 'final' stages of being ordered. What changed in the last 4 weeks?

 

[Prashant12]

Hmmm...Just last month Parrikar made the announcement that 155/52 was in the 'final' stages of being ordered. What changed in the last 4 weeks?

That was for K9 Thunder 155/52 self-propelled gun
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...5-52-self-propelled-gunparrikar/1/855976.html