Indian Army Artillery

[Hemu Vikram Aditya]

True. I was just replying to a quote from one of our esteemed members who claimed that ATAGS is light years ahead of western designs. When in reality it cannot even match the range of G-5 towed howitzer. For this my post was deleted.

Ghanta It's Ahead Of G-5 towed howitzer

 

[prateikf]

Ghanta It's Ahead Of G-5 towed howitzer

How so ? The range of Atags is only 45kms while G-5 a 1980's design had an 55km range.

 

[deepak ghanvatkar]

can u please clarify your claim?
AH-4 is supposed copy of M777. everything is said to be identical, even range is identical..
also if u are not aware what chinese claim is never true, if they say range is 40, consider it below that.
FYI india is getting M777A2, which can fire Excliber round till 40km range. Chinese PGM is we below standard than excaliber
all export customers are getting M777A2, even saudis got them in 2011.
BAE is moving final assembly, integration and testing to india, so u can firmly believe that number 145 will surely double.

The good point is we are starting with some thing there can always be debate as to which is best.
We don't know if artillery like "Tulip: The heaviest mortar in the world
The 240-mm mortar can destroy fortified buildings that are 20 km away, and which was there with soviets and used in Afghanistan was considered" This gun was there in the era we imported Bofors. you can read more on http://in.rbth.com/multimedia/video/2017/01/29/tulip-the-heaviest-mortar-in-the-world_689408

 

[Chinmoy]

How so ? The range of Atags is only 45kms while G-5 a 1980's design had an 55km range.

The 55 km range of G5 is only through VLAP, not with regular shells. With regular shells, its 39 km at base bleed performance or 35 km in normal condition.
Now if we compare G5 and ATAGS, G5 is 155/45 as opposed to 155/52 caliber ATAGS.
G5 weighs at 13+ ton whereas ATAGS weighs at 12tons.
Rate of fire of G5 is 3 rnds per min, whereas ATAGS fires 3 rnds in 15 second.

 

[ezsasa]

Just a word of caution: Excalibur shell costs about 100-150 TIMES the regular shell
Even though it's worth every penny you spend on it!!!

I remember it as around 60k $ per Excalibur round during Afghan deployment, from some YouTube video.

So it can't be 100-150 times, I hope.

 

[deepak ghanvatkar]

We have multi-calibre rifles but it seems there is no research to make a multi-calibre tube artillery so that we can reduce calibre and transport and increase calibre and fire at Islamabad or Rawalpindi from Indian borders....

 

[ezsasa]

We have multi-calibre rifles but it seems there is no research to make a multi-calibre tube artillery so that we can reduce calibre and transport and increase calibre and fire at Islamabad or Rawalpindi from Indian borders....

I am unable to comprehend whether you are joking or not..

Try to understand how the guns works in the first place..

 

[Chinmoy]

We have multi-calibre rifles but it seems there is no research to make a multi-calibre tube artillery so that we can reduce calibre and transport and increase calibre and fire at Islamabad or Rawalpindi from Indian borders....

.........

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Their is no piece in the world which have all the qualities of ATAGS ..

You can research that information yourself ..

You still didn't answered my question

 

[Scrutator]

I remember it as around 60k $ per Excalibur round during Afghan deployment, from some YouTube video.

So it can't be 100-150 times, I hope.

It's more like $80,000, the conventional shell cost around $500-$1000 (tops).

 

[The enlightened]

The 55 km range of G5 is only through VLAP, not with regular shells. With regular shells, its 39 km at base bleed performance or 35 km in normal condition.
Now if we compare G5 and ATAGS, G5 is 155/45 as opposed to 155/52 caliber ATAGS.
G5 weighs at 13+ ton whereas ATAGS weighs at 12tons.
Rate of fire of G5 is 3 rnds per min, whereas ATAGS fires 3 rnds in 15 second.

Apparently mod warning is being ignored. So let me shed my two paise. Hope it isnt deleted by the mod junta .

ATAGS is light years ahead of most western designs in its category ..

Weight, Range,Rate Of Fire & Recoil system, Chamber size ..

Weight - It is actually heavier than other comparable guns by 2-3 tons.
Range - lower than the only comparable 25l chambered gun on the G6-52ER which gives 50km with EFRB-BB shells.
Rate of fire - It does have an advantage of a 6 round magazine for burst fire mode but its sustained fire is once again far lower than even titanium M777 which can fire 2rpm vs 1rpm for ATAGS.
Recoil system - Dunno? what exactly makes it light years ahead of comparable westerns?
Chamber size - Changing chamber size means de-standardizing primer and/or charge which is why even Saffers who first made one didnt bother.

 

[Hemu Vikram Aditya]

Their is no piece in the world which have all the qualities of ATAGS ..

You can research that information yourself ..

I cannot find the specs of ah4 that's why asked you do you k ow its specs sir

 

[Scrutator]

Apparently mod warning is being ignored. So let me shed my two paise. Hope it isnt deleted by the mod junta .


Weight - It is actually heavier than other comparable guns by 2-3 tons.
Range - lower than the only comparable 25l chambered gun on the G6-52ER which gives 50km with EFRB-BB shells.
Rate of fire - It does have an advantage of a 6 round magazine for burst fire mode but its sustained fire is once again far lower than even titanium M777 which can fire 2rpm vs 1rpm for ATAGS.
Recoil system - Dunno? what exactly makes it light years ahead of comparable westerns?
Chamber size - Changing chamber size means de-standardizing primer and/or charge which is why even Saffers who first made one didnt bother.

Do you know what the life of an ATAGS/Dhanush barrel is? I think M777 is around 1000 rounds?
I agree that ATAGS is a good gun but not sure it's light years ahead! Seems like folks are going by the pre-design specs when they keep harping that ATAGS is 'light weight', the actual production has resulted in slightly heavier than expected product.
But what does a couple of extra tonnes (higher or lower) have anything to do with the lethality/reliability of the gun - sure it's good buzzwords on the the sales sheet.
I am really curious to know what the life of the barrel is when rounds are fired to full range. During a protracted war, that's what will give a competitive edge (other than range, accuracy et al)!

 

[The enlightened]

Do you know what the life of an ATAGS/Dhanush barrel is? I think M777 is around 1000 rounds?
I agree that ATAGS is a good gun but not sure it's light years ahead! Seems like folks are going by the pre-design specs when they keep harping that ATAGS is 'light weight', the actual production has resulted in slightly heavier than expected product.
But what does a couple of extra tonnes (higher or lower) have anything to do with the lethality/reliability of the gun - sure it's good buzzwords on the the sales sheet.
I am really curious to know what the life of the barrel is when rounds are fired to full range. During a protracted war, that's what will give a competitive edge (other than range, accuracy et al)!

Its still in development and most/all information comes from Shukla ji, so we have to wait a bit to know about barrel life I guess.
On present specs it is still a world class product but nothing to really beat our chests as seems to be the case with everything Indian over here.

 

[Wisemarko]

Comparing Towed artillery with SPGs? That does nothing to show that Chinese tube arty has any advantage on India. Or are you insinuating that PLA plans to use these heavy SPGs on Himalayas? Also, PGM capability or extended range rounds are not unique to PLA. ATAGS is being tested with a 70 km range round. All I can gauge from your reply is that PLA has an updated arty. We are stuck with obsolescent guns. True. But the fact that we have in place a plan to rationalise our arty by 2027 and that tube arty technology is not like smartphone tech. (its not gaining at a very fast rate) means that PLA's current advantage is temporary.
BTW, if you have some information on PLA's towed-arty, please do share.

Indeed. Formalized contract is of 145 pieces but some reports said the requirement could go up to 500 pieces.

Chinese have towed artillery- Type 89 look up before posting tall claims. That country is generation ahead of India in defense, manufacturing, infrastructure and overall development. There is really no comparison at this time between the two. Saying this as someone who has been to both countries.

Anyway, so India will modernize its artillery by 2027 and Chinese will wait for India to catch up till then? What kind of comparison is that! Their artillery is already top notch and in operation, while Indian ATAGS is in prototype form. That's like comparing non-deployed AMCA with F-22!

 

[Adioz]

Chinese have towed artillery- Type 89 look up before posting tall claims. That country is generation ahead of India in defense, manufacturing, infrastructure and overall development. There is really no comparison at this time between the two. Saying this as someone who has been to both countries.

Anyway, so India will modernize its artillery by 2027 and Chinese will wait for India to catch up till then? What kind of comparison is that! Their artillery is already top notch and in operation, while Indian ATAGS is in prototype form. That's like comparing non-deployed AMCA with F-22!

DO YOU READ REPLIES BEFORE YOU COMMENT OR DO YOU JUST LOVE TO MAKE FAKE ACCOUNTS AND POST CRAP? ARE YOU ONE OF THESE?

Read what I said. You keep comparing towed arty with SPH and tell me that I am making "tall claims"? Read what I said again, and carefully this time.
Got it? Good. Now read this:-

AH-4 is a Towed Artillery, its a chinese copy of M777, it has not moved to production and is only been developed as claimed by chinese.

So Chinese artillery is not up to date either. Unlike me, you are the one that made this tall claim here:-

Chinese artillery development is way ahead of India. Look up AH-4 that compares to M-777 India is importing which comes with PGM capabilities and has more range than M-777.
SH-1 is SPH that compares to Nexter Caesar in abilities. PLZ-54 is 54 cal artillery with range over 60km with ERFB BB ammunition. All these are already in service and their future development is ongoing.

As far as conventional parity with PLA is concerned, I am well aware that we cannot match PLA gun-for-gun. It is a bigger economy and bigger military. That is not what we are aiming for either. All we need to do is defend our territories well. And as far as this statement of yours goes:-

Anyway, so India will modernize its artillery by 2027 and Chinese will wait for India to catch up till then?

If you are so confident of defeating us, come at us. And we'll give you a live demonstration of how technological superiority is just one advantage (and one which can be offset). Come at us and we'll show you how an artillery barrage is equally devastating to the moral of the infantry man in its line of fire, irrespective of whether the round fired is from a high spec new gun or from an old one with its paint worn off. The fight will be in the mountains. You will be the attacking party. Try it out and you'll discover what mountain warfare is all about.

Finally, read this:-

This thread is about Indian Artillery, Keep comparison sake debates to minimum ..

 

[Alok Arya]

Chinese have towed artillery- Type 89 look up before posting tall claims. That country is generation ahead of India in defense, manufacturing, infrastructure and overall development. There is really no comparison at this time between the two. Saying this as someone who has been to both countries.

Anyway, so India will modernize its artillery by 2027 and Chinese will wait for India to catch up till then? What kind of comparison is that! Their artillery is already top notch and in operation, while Indian ATAGS is in prototype form. That's like comparing non-deployed AMCA with F-22!

Specs of type 89 on wiki / open source not backing your claims . Please come clean shows specs of type 89 is better than atags .

 

[Alok Arya]

Apparently mod warning is being ignored. So let me shed my two paise. Hope it isnt deleted by the mod junta .


Weight - It is actually heavier than other comparable guns by 2-3 tons.
Range - lower than the only comparable 25l chambered gun on the G6-52ER which gives 50km with EFRB-BB shells.
Rate of fire - It does have an advantage of a 6 round magazine for burst fire mode but its sustained fire is once again far lower than even titanium M777 which can fire 2rpm vs 1rpm for ATAGS.
Recoil system - Dunno? what exactly makes it light years ahead of comparable westerns?
Chamber size - Changing chamber size means de-standardizing primer and/or charge which is why even Saffers who first made one didnt bother.

ATAGS is 2 to 3 ton more than comparable gun ? Please enlighten us with facts from net / source .
Range -- which comparable gun has more range than atags with standard shell ? Please again provide facts .
Rate of fire bust fire mode of atags is superior to all other , you also acknowledge this . Simultaneous impacts multiple shell is technologies not present most of your so claimed superior gun .
Recoil -- soft recoil of atags is standard now a days .
All electric drive is standard for maintenance free working .

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Get your basics first before acting know all, A little research would help, The information is shared by Government R&D department DRDO, This is available on open source, Best don`t ask for spoon feedings ..

In case it missed weight details, This 52cal weight only 12tons compare to similar system of 14tons-18ton monsters, Unmatched globally ..

Comparing apple vs oranges is not smart, Comparing 39cal with 52cal gun also quietly comparing sustain fire of ATAGS with Intense fire American gun of a different class, This is obvious ..

Bigger the chamber, More powder bags hence more power and longer range with higher velocity, Its simple math and saffers ( slang for south Africans which is offensive way to describe them ) got it from Gerald bull himself, Our Army is not made of fool who will issue such a requirement for no reason ..

Keep in mind this is not terrorist forum, We have a reputation here and we don`t allow trolls / big mouths ..

===================

Type-89 is not a 52cal gun but a 45cal gun which is copy of G-5 towed howitzer, Post replies with better knowledge, Know what it have compare to ATAGS and visa versa, China has a good industrial base which we lack but unlike us their R&D is more interested in copying ..

AH4 is a very old system and nothing new, Its rejected by PLA and offered for exports, Its specifications are claimed to be similar to M777 ..

===================

Its a pity that many Indians may know about what America or Russia is doing or their history but remain clueless about their own archivements, Its unfortunate that many chose it due to their inferiority complex which has no treatment ..

Chinese have towed artillery- Type 89 look up before posting tall claims. That country is generation ahead of India in defense, manufacturing, infrastructure and overall development. There is really no comparison at this time between the two. Saying this as someone who has been to both countries.

Anyway, so India will modernize its artillery by 2027 and Chinese will wait for India to catch up till then? What kind of comparison is that! Their artillery is already top notch and in operation, while Indian ATAGS is in prototype form. That's like comparing non-deployed AMCA with F-22!

I cannot find the specs of ah4 that's why asked you do you k ow its specs sir

How so ? The range of Atags is only 45kms while G-5 a 1980's design had an 55km range.

Weight - It is actually heavier than other comparable guns by 2-3 tons.
Range - lower than the only comparable 25l chambered gun on the G6-52ER which gives 50km with EFRB-BB shells.
Rate of fire - It does have an advantage of a 6 round magazine for burst fire mode but its sustained fire is once again far lower than even titanium M777 which can fire 2rpm vs 1rpm for ATAGS.
Recoil system - Dunno? what exactly makes it light years ahead of comparable westerns?
Chamber size - Changing chamber size means de-standardizing primer and/or charge which is why even Saffers who first made one didnt bother.

 

[tharun]

Get your basics first before acting know all, A little research would help, The information is shared by Government R&D department DRDO, This is available on open source, Best don`t ask for spoon feedings ..

In case it missed weight details, This 52cal weight only 12tons compare to similar system of 14tons-18ton monsters, Unmatched globally ..

Comparison apple and oranges is not smart, Comparing 39cal with 52cal gun also quietly comparing sustain fire of ATAGS with Intense fire American gun of a different class, This is obvious ..

Bigger the chamber, More powder bags hence more power and longer range with higher velocity, Its simple math and saffers ( slang for south Africans which is offensive way to describe them ) got it from Gerald bull himself, Our Army is not made of fool who will issue such a requirement for no reason ..

Keep in mind this is not terrorist forum, We have a reputation here and we don`t allow trolls / big mouths ..

===================

Type-89 is not a 52cal gun but a 45cal gun which is copy of G-5 towed howitzer, Post replies with better knowledge, Know what it have compare to ATAGS and visa versa, China has a good industrial base which we lack but unlike us their R&D is more interested in copying ..

AH4 is a very old system and nothing new, Its rejected by PLA and offered for exports, Its specifications are claimed to be similar to M777 ..

===================

Its a pity that many Indians may know about what America or Russia is doing or their history but remain clueless about their own archivements, Its unfortunate that many chose it due to their inferiority complex which has no treatment ..

Do you know what i like about your replies...they are smooth,sweet slipper shot replies.