Indian Army Artillery

[bengalraider]

we should go to the next step and get the Israelis to share the Design & tech of the Sholef with us.we could build the same gun on an Arjun chassis.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

we should go to the next step and get the Israelis to share the Design & tech of the Sholef with us.we could build the same gun on an Arjun chassis.

SPH is next to towered arty, though during 2002 IA did mentioned abt buying 152mm MSTA-S and said it will be modified to 155mm with Israeli help..
But that was also dropped..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The Archer wheeled SPH..

http://www.defence-observer.info/articles/land/536-the-archer

 

[prateikf]

the Israeli Sholef never entered production and the archer is too costly. The finance ministry will shoot down any proposal to buy the Archer. In such terrible conditions i wonder how the army would be able to buy anything at all. all the artillery manufacturer's have been blacklisted-bofors, denel, stk, rheinmetall, IMI etc. wonder who is left to buy anything from. the FMS route seems possible. but that too is very costly.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

the Israeli Sholef never entered production and the archer is too costly. The finance ministry will shoot down any proposal to buy the Archer. In such terrible conditions i wonder how the army would be able to buy anything at all. all the artillery manufacturer's have been blacklisted-bofors, denel, stk, rheinmetall, IMI etc. wonder who is left to buy anything from. the FMS route seems possible. but that too is very costly.

Money is not a problem but the way of procurements and the corruption level of MOD is, Only US & Russia remain, US SPH are expensive also our partners - brother PA are using the same, Russia can offer us MSTA-S 152mm ( 155mm on request ) can be delivered on Arjun Chassis ( If they agree with our terms ) after purchase we have to update its fire-control system with IMI..

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=MSTA-S&aq=f

 

[dineshchaturvedi]

I am also concerned with ban on so many firms but I also feel that something will be worked out. Antony wants to send a message on corruption. I feel some of these firms will have their ban lifted in future.

 

[171K]

Money is not a problem but the way of procurements and the corruption level of MOD is, Only US & Russia remain, US SPH are expensive also our partners - brother PA are using the same, Russia can offer us MSTA-S 152mm ( 155mm on request ) can be delivered on Arjun Chassis ( If they agree with our terms ) after purchase we have to update its fire-control system with IMI..

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=MSTA-S&aq=f

Kunal, what about Bhim in IA?
How many are in service? How is it's performance?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Kunal, what about Bhim in IA?
How many are in service? How is it's performance?

0 bhim in IA,
performance can be comparable tp ph-2000 in terms of rounds per min and Range..

One of the DRDO guy told me during DEFEXPO-2010 that BHIM project will be operation once the ban is removed from SA company..

 

[sayareakd]

One of the DRDO guy told me during DEFEXPO-2010 that BHIM project will be operation once the ban is removed from SA company..

yeah they told me the same the project was revived and soon some thing will come by.

 

[prateikf]

but as things stand no bhim has even entered production let alone be inducted. The Indian army has absolutely no worthy self propelled howitzer.

 

[bengalraider]

As i have detailed earlier on this forum Bhim is being revived however the gun shall no longer be the same Denel T6 as earlier , the DRDO is looking for an alternate weapons system(by some accounts we are in negotiations with the Koreans for the K9 Thunder) for the Bhim and the new prototype is expected by the end of 2011.

Also the Archer is a very good gun by all accounts but faces substantial competition from the Nexter Ceaser, I was told by ceaser officials taht they would be able to integrate the guyn onto any chassis we chose that could take the weight(think TATA or Leyland 8X8). this would bring down acquisition costs for this weapon substantially.

 

[prateikf]

if the prototype is expected by end 2011 then trials and negotiations would drag on till 2015 and an order would be placed by 2017. the final induction of the self propelled howitzer would only be by 2020. a good wait of 10 years and that also is so highly uncertain. who knows that MOD might even ban the south korean company and throw the whole process into confusion as they always do

 

[Known_Unknown]

I feel that banning so many suppliers is like cutting your nose to spite your face. It is we who are in need. We need to acknowledge that corruption is present everywhere in the international arms market, not just in India. The response to allegations of corruption against a foreign firm should not be to outright ban them, but to disqualify them from that competition, and single them out for stricter conditions in the re-bidding process. For example, they can be asked to increase the offset amount by 10% if they want to re-bid. Or, they could be asked to provide a greater level of technology transfer. The current process of banning suppliers is working against us and will compromise our military preparedness.....it's like the story of the monkey who used a sword to kill a fly, but missed and killed his master in the process.

 

[Rage]

I'm starting to lean in toward a mixed procurement of PzH-2000 for SPH, primarily for its larger turret and round count, and the Archer for wheeled, for its mobility, high rate of fire and flexibility, not to mention the reliability of its platform.

All of these lenghty trials and runs are beginning to bug me. Is there no end to this waterloo?

How the heck are we supposed to maintain a 'Cold Start' doctrine- when the Armed Forces are hampered in their mobility and firepower !

I think we need to get down to it and make a decision, fast.

[email protected]
The above is our esteemed minister's email id. Perhaps we should start an campaign to get the artillery deal through. otherwise who knows we may even have a repeat of the 1962 debacle. i did send an email to our minister asking him to speed up the procurement of desperately needed artillery guns.

I like the idea. I'm willing to pitch in with what help I can if we get a few more members.

Let's rankle a few feathers.

 

[prateikf]

yes very well said. this process of blacklisting foreign firms is like shooting ourselves in our foot. China and Pakistan could easily delay our artillery acquisition by just writing a newspaper article on alleged corruption. what a dream enemy our country would make. at the helm of affairs is mr. a.k. antony who after bankrupting his state of kerala during his time as CM has now taken the task of the destruction of the Indian armed forces. his ostrich kind attitude of putting one's head in the sand hoping that the danger would pass is responsible for the present state of affairs. as long as mr. antony is the defence minister we could very well forget about any new artillery being acquired. things were so bright when mr. george fernandes was the defence mnister. Bhim was on the verge of production, nalanda factory was being constructed by denel, denel howitzer was on the verge of being selected for the towed howitzer requirement. Alas it's all history now. Wonder if the rosy time wold be back again. the great George Fernandes is sadly missed by the army and by the whole nation

 

[prateikf]

@ Rage
sadly even the pzh-2000 cannot be procured as rhinemetall is blacklisted because it has denel as one of it's partner's. yes the whole nation should send mail's to antony is every form asking him to procure the howitzer's soon and to stop blacklisting every possible foreign firm
Here are his details

Delhi Address: 9, Krishna, Menon Marg, New Delhi
Telephone No.Tel. 23366744, Mobile: 9868181181)
My Permanent Address: 'Anjanam', Easwara Vilasam Road, Thiruvananthapuram 695014
My Telephone No.: (Tel.{0471}2329303, 2735858)
E-mail :[email protected]

 

[Raj Malhotra]

While GUn deal is important but there is no need to get overexcited. Note:-


Smerch are being procured with Pinaka-2 on way

Grad upgraded, Pinaka-1 being procured

Additional 130mm procured

Soltam 155mm upgrade kits (around 220-400?)

OFB 155mm upgrade kit (?)

M777s - 145

 

[prateikf]

just 64 smerch and about 80 pinaka have been procured. the deal for 145 m-777 needed for the mountain divsion is yet to be signed with trial's scheduled for december of this year. no additional 130mm have been procured as they are obsolete(1950's soviet era weapon). just 180 m-46 have been upgraded to 155mm, but that is a problem riddled process. the OFB 155mm upgrade kit is a failure and has been rejected by the army. the present requirement is for 3600 howitzer's of various kind's needed to equip 180 artillery division's(18 guns each). the trial's have been going on since 2002 with no end in sight.

 

[Welcome]

i think india should consider to develop it's own Artillery rather than buying it from others.i know it's take some time but it will help us to strong our base....

 

[bengalraider]

i think india should consider to develop it's own Artillery rather than buying it from others.i know it's take some time but it will help us to strong our base....

while i sincerely hope that we get our act together and build our armaments industry up(hell ! I'm trying hard to get into the business myself) .
It still doesn't take us away from the fact that we've had plenty to time to build our base for the last 50 yrs , let's wake up and smell the bull crap people the fact is that our entire establishment from the researchers to the politicos were never serious about building our arms industry, for pete's sake in 1948 we were the only nation in Asia with a viable weapons industry look at us now, Singapore the same nation that literally begged us to help start their weaponry industry(we refused , we were too gandhian) is now on the verge of selling us artillery and guns. we have squandered our chance to be a premier weapons producer in Asia long ago.