Indian Army Armored Vehicles

[SanjeevM]

So new ones cost 6-7 crore and upgrades 2-3 crore? Which one do you think is better? New or upgrade?

 

[ezsasa]

So new ones cost 6-7 crore and upgrades 2-3 crore? Which one do you think is better? New or upgrade?

check the link above, 363 new BMP ordered in 2015. Probably that order itself is not fulfilled yet.
Hope thats the last batch of BMP purchased, time to get some wheeled IFVs.

in the new upgrades order, night vision capabilities are being added which were not existing before.
Full list of upgrades is not available in news articles.

To answer your question, upgrade is better for older ones.

 

[bhramos]

So new ones cost 6-7 crore and upgrades 2-3 crore? Which one do you think is better? New or upgrade?

i said BMP-2 may cost 6-7 because its an in house product line is still running.. and if we buy Kestral would no less be 10+ crore....

which one is better? upgrade or new one?

we have 1000+ BMP1 & 2500+ BMP-2 variants.... we cant replace them at that such a speed time... even if we buy 100+ a year it would take 20 years for replacing 2500 BMP, so BMP need to run 20 more years so they are upgrading them...

 

[Vinod DX9]

India decided to procure T-72 series MBTs from USSR. But afaik India had two more options in hand
1) AMX-40 of France , which wasn't ready that time of deal
2) Chieftain 800 of Britain...
Ignore AMX-40 wasn't ready yet, then say, what you do think which option would be better ?
My personal opinion is Chieftain 800 would be the best option.
Reasons in short
i) Cobham armour , better than Soviet export version varriant
ii) 120 mm Rifled gun , better than 125 mm 2A46 smoothbore one , afterall Arjun too went with 120 Rifled gun
iii) Arjun project would be much benefitted by a western design tank rather a Soviet one which didn't help any way in the indigenous tank development I guess
iV) Chieftain 800/900 would be a much potent platform still rather T-72 which needed to be upgraded in even mid 90s (by Yugoslavia, unfortunately their civil war destroyed both the project as well as their country) , later CIA project was initiated, and still weaker armour is a problem, no matter how much ERA Mk-II we add, and we aren't replacing that old 125 mm gun too (with 2A46M5 at least)
v) India already started to manufacture customised licensed version of Vickers Mk 1 as Vijayanta, no incident of British later hampering Indian manufacturing them ...so I don't think licensed production of Chieftain 800 would be a problem
vi) Would be maintenance a headache? May be

This is just my opinion, what you do think?

 

[TheHurtLocker]

The T72s have a reputation for being very reliable(Apart from early autoloader issues) and on the move it is a harder target to hit as a result of it's relatively smaller profile.
IIRC, Indian Army's experience with British Tanks were less impressive.

"The Vijayanta wasn't a good offensive tank and had mechanical troubles, but was excellent in the defensive role and made for a great pillbox. Its 105 mm main gun could literally shred enemy bunkers."

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/transformers-retired-tanks-functioning-as-bunkers/1/948896.html

 

[Vinod DX9]

1) Who made the reputation of T-72 being reliable? Standard Soviet version may be , but export version? Except Syria no other country had used that tank in large no when deal was signed (possibly, Iraqi use of T-72 against Iran was during 8 year long war, was an incident of later period) Assad called it The Best Tank because it was victorious against M60s,Magaches and Merkavas (doubtful) , didn't face any upgraded version of Chieftain at all. Then how it can be clarified as reliable?
2) Low silhouette is ,yes a plus point. But in Gulf war taking out them (and I am not considered Asad Babil and Saddam, some M models also were present ) wasn't at all any problem.

A tank quality I believe based upon it's firepower, protection, mobility and serviceability.
If you say that scorching heat in western desert would be problem, then how could Kuwati not upgraded Chieftains just chewed Iraqi T-72s during Iraqi invasion? Iraqi tanks were overwhelming in no only, but not in quality. And if just old Chieftain could do thay, I wonder what magic would bring Chieftain 800.

However, I know , there are differences between theory and practical experience.

 

[ezsasa]

Assuming that this tender is a pre-cursor to WHAP procurement process next year.

 

[TheHurtLocker]

1)Then how it can be clarified as reliable?

I'm basing the reliability point on Soviet experience as reported publicly and the Indian Army's lack of complaints on the powertrain front.
I'd be much obliged if you can point me to articles which mention the IA's Ajeya problems from back in the 80's and 90's.
I also know that India got a great deal which the Britshits would not have given:
From The Washington Post, 1980.

The Soviet Union has agreed to sell $1.6 billion in weapons to India in a move that strengthens the already close ties between the countries and is likely to increase Soviet influence in South Asia.

An Indian government spokesman said yesterday that the weapons agreement, the largest New Delhi has ever concluded, was initialed in Moscow last week. India has 17 years to pay for the arms at an annual interest rate of 2.5 percent, terms considered extremely concessionary.

Indian defense experts yesterday defended the decision to purchase the Soviet T72 tank over West German Leopards and British Chieftains on grounds that the Soviet weapons proved more suitable to the Indian terrain.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...reement/2de6c9f8-7269-491d-9158-c32b9f6cea66/

So I believe India got a good deal, a great tank and a very good Ally.

 

[Vinod DX9]

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...cture-soviet-t-72-tank-in-india/1/392162.html

This article shows what in reality defence experts did think.

 

[TheHurtLocker]

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...cture-soviet-t-72-tank-in-india/1/392162.html

This article shows what in reality defence experts did think.

Well hindsight is always 6/6.
I found an interesting video on the T72:
And the competitor from England:

 

[Vinod DX9]

Ok I shall check those videos... By the way can anyone say if the attatched image is of Combat Improved Ajeya or just Ajeya with Era cover?

 

[TheHurtLocker]

Ok I shall check those videos... By the way can anyone say if the attatched image is of Combat Improved Ajeya or just Ajeya with Era cover?
View attachment 17795

CIA
...........................

 

[Vorschlaghammer]

India decided to procure T-72 series MBTs from USSR. But afaik India had two more options in hand
1) AMX-40 of France , which wasn't ready that time of deal
2) Chieftain 800 of Britain...
Ignore AMX-40 wasn't ready yet, then say, what you do think which option would be better ?
My personal opinion is Chieftain 800 would be the best option.
Reasons in short
i) Cobham armour , better than Soviet export version varriant
ii) 120 mm Rifled gun , better than 125 mm 2A46 smoothbore one , afterall Arjun too went with 120 Rifled gun
iii) Arjun project would be much benefitted by a western design tank rather a Soviet one which didn't help any way in the indigenous tank development I guess
iV) Chieftain 800/900 would be a much potent platform still rather T-72 which needed to be upgraded in even mid 90s (by Yugoslavia, unfortunately their civil war destroyed both the project as well as their country) , later CIA project was initiated, and still weaker armour is a problem, no matter how much ERA Mk-II we add, and we aren't replacing that old 125 mm gun too (with 2A46M5 at least)
v) India already started to manufacture customised licensed version of Vickers Mk 1 as Vijayanta, no incident of British later hampering Indian manufacturing them ...so I don't think licensed production of Chieftain 800 would be a problem
vi) Would be maintenance a headache? May be

This is just my opinion, what you do think?View attachment 17729 View attachment 17730

Ok I shall check those videos... By the way can anyone say if the attatched image is of Combat Improved Ajeya or just Ajeya with Era cover?
View attachment 17795

I'm not sure why T72 was chosen, but two things, AMX-40 was still on drawing board, and Chieftain-800 weighed 56 tons. Beyond that i'm not sure.

I believe the picture is of a CI Ajeya, cause the side mounted smoke grenade launchers. It's also supposed to have the FCS from polish PT-91, but that can't be seen from outside.

Check out this blog for pics and explanations of internal mechanisms of the T72
https://thesovietarmourblog.blogspot.in/2015/05/t-72-soviet-progeny.html

 

[WolfPack86]

Decision on FICV worth $7.5-billion by July end

The Indian Army’s long-delayed futuristic infantry combat vehicle (FICV) programme is expected to be taken up when the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) meets later this month.

For the 2600+ vehicle order, the Indian companies which are trying include L&T, Mahindra, Tata, Bharat Forge and Reliance Defence. The potential original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) will include US-based General Dynamics, Russian companies under the umbrella of Rosoboronexport and the German Rheinmetall Group, subject to approval, among others.

The earlier EoI for FICV, which is expected to have a life span of 32 years, was issued under the DPP-2008 and it has recommended a minimum 40% indigenous content.

A lot of issues, mostly procedural in nature, seem to be hampering further progress in the project. There also seems to be no clarity over the number of development agencies the MoD would need for this programme.

Under the approved SP model, for the armoured vehicle segment, the first would be Future Infantry Combat Vehicle (FICV), which is currently being considered under the ‘Make’ Category under DPP-2008.

The Indian Army had also issued a request for information (RFI) in June 2015 to design and develop a new-generation combat vehicle platform called the Future Ready Combat Vehicle (FRCV). Under the project, 2,610 FRCVs are expected to be built to replace the Army's T-72s.
https://www.facebook.com/pg/TejasMrca/photos/?ref=page_internal

 

[bhramos]

Indians arrived in Russia with their T-90S Bhishma for Tank Biathlon!!!

dont confuse front tiles & side skirts were removed to reduce weight....

 

[bhramos]

We have lots of vehicles here in kanpur....parked in a college campus near my house....some troop carriers....n there is a British humbr car also.....and a A-A vehicle...!!

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Upgraded Ajaya MBT by DRDO ..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Fire Power and Manoeuvre Exercise’ and ‘Equipment display’, held in the KK Ranges near Ahmednagar under the aegis of the Armoured Corps Centre and School (ACC&S) and the Mechanised Infantry Regimental Centre (MIRC) on January 10, 2017.

 

[sbm]

Fire Power and Manoeuvre Exercise’ and ‘Equipment display’, held in the KK Ranges near Ahmednagar under the aegis of the Armoured Corps Centre and School (ACC&S) and the Mechanised Infantry Regimental Centre (MIRC) on January 10, 2017.

Is there a video for this? Looks really cool!

 

[bhramos]

The Indian Army T-90S on Day 1 of the Tank Biathlon 2017 near Moscow.