India US Relations

[Suryavanshi]

Lol, is that why the Indian Government cows down to international pressure? Is that why Indira returned the gains in PoK and Bangladesh without any gains for India?

o really, you don’t care for what outsiders think. Is that why there is a no gun policy on the China border. What you say sounds good to pat yourself on your back and feel good drinking your own cool aid. A patriotic Indian would actually wake up, smell the coffee and figure how to improve things; not bask in their own shit and reject help.

without outside allies, India is surrounded by enemies like China, Pakistan, With fence sitters Nepal and Sri Lanka. The only reason Nepal and Sri Lanka are not in Chinese camp is Quad and international pressure. So don’t give me this 5 cent bullshit.

This is our aspiration this is our resolve u can keep kissing up to those you serve, we have smelled the kada no need for coffee.

We will fail sometimes but that will not change our resolve. U may defeat us but our resolve will never be defeated, u will not take us alive.

 

[srevster]

This is our aspiration this is our resolve u can keep kissing up to those you serve, we have smelled the kada no need for coffee.

We will fail sometimes but that will not change our resolve. U may defeat us but our resolve will never be defeated, u will not take us alive.

Mods open season on personal attacks? I am holding back but this guys keeps opening a can of worms asking for a spanking

 

[srevster]

This is our aspiration this is our resolve u can keep kissing up to those you serve, we have smelled the kada no need for coffee.

We will fail sometimes but that will not change our resolve. U may defeat us but our resolve will never be defeated, u will not take us alive.

Let me break down your psychology for you. You are a textbook psycho. You first attack someone, you then try to isolate them and then you victimize yourself to gain sympathy. This is a textbook psycho behavior and might work with your immediate family whom you gaslight to get your way, but it won’t work with me.

 

[srevster]

India was ruled back then by people with your kiss-ass mentality. Things our changing.

Whose ass am I kissing?

 

[Tshering22]

I think the discussion is going way out of bounds of rationality to emotion now.

Guys, please bring it back.

To those who profess advocating stronger alliance with the United States: Yes. Let's be practical; they are the fountainheads of technology and influence and our cooperation with them will go a long-way in benefiting the both of us.

Keyword here is "both". And this is where the cautious approach comes; But as @srevster has mentioned here in one of his posts, the onus of drawing boundaries is on our leadership. We need to look at the bigger picture of what benefits us and to what extent, mutual benefits are possible, such that the ties are built on a solid foundation of realistic expectations.

USA's concept of alliances in non-White countries:- Ally = doormat.

Meanwhile the IFS babus in the foreign ministry assume:- Ally = a permanent ATM of technology & unlimited benefits.

Both these positions are equally wrong. They don't get either party what they are looking for and result in a disillusionment of each other.

Therefore any proposal of an enduring, practical relationship with the US would have to be assessed from a 20-30 year perspective rather than the 5-year bull*** we are usually accustomed to.

 

[Rassil Krishnan]

LMAO, India has more Muslims than Pakistan, what is your point.
I rarely interact with them. If I do it’s circumstantial. I have nothing against their citizens; but despise their government. Same as Chinese. Most Chinese in US are quite pleasant. But their government is all sorts of fucked.

most of the time ,the gov is the face of the people's culture,china's attitude is the attitude of the people.chinese are kind when they have to be and when there is no need to be rude.they are highly nationalistic and dont give a damn about others opinion and that reflects intheir actions and effects them both positively and negatively.

same goes for pakistan except that here there are no positives.stop thinking that the average person on the ground is pakistan is some nice guy who would change if the gov or military was not in charge.in reality it is the acceptance of the mass paki psyche that allows the pak gov and army to exist not the other way around.

the army just fueled the fire of islam,islam was always there at the core and now the army and gov are stuck imo and are riding the elephant to wherever it wants to go and only has control over little actually.

 

[cannonfodder]

You guys are fighting un-necessarily, please take an deep breath.

1. US has not been kind to India geo-politically. Mostly It follows its national interest and does where ever suits interest of its oligarch. So every one from defence ind / missionaries lobbyist/ inducstries will dictate policy decisions depending on leverage and how much it can take out of this negotiations.
2. India has been bit naive and in reality its external posture is dependent on the internal strength and prevailing geo-politics. It cannot rely on US alone due to past baggage also restricted by economic realities.

India has to monkey balance over all geo-political game/ economic situation. when it goes out of the way to go against CCP, it basically falls into trap where US will end up using India as pawn to fight CCP. On the flip side, CCP is aggressive territorially and wants to control entire Asia economics under its influence to overthrow US as #1 nation. Currently, India is navigating both titans, its best if we can discuss if its possible to milk the situation and not getting burned in process. It will be long churn and time will tell.

 

[Rassil Krishnan]

Arrey they already see India at the big boy table. It is us Indians who self impose doubt and pussy foot around about “what will they say” mentality. Bottom line is strength respects strength.

If india expects US to solve all Indian problems aka Pakistan, then the big boy mentality will be gone. If india establishes it’s own sphere of influence and improves trade, stability and introduces a balance by putting Pakistan and China in their place; then US will support it.

bottom line is US in 2050 will be majority non-white and focused on preserving national power by finding alliances with countries like India.

Graduate studies are dominated by Indians and Chinese. Anyone who has the wherewithal to get to Graduate school and can generate value to the country doesn’t need extra assistance in assimilation. They set the tone of society when they enter the job market and earn more than the locals.

at the end of the day, money is what matters and the number of people within the demographic strata that are pro-India. Being a democracy, US will automatically shift policy to support that.

they did not accept india at the big boys table and will always and have cried when we reached irreversible milestones in any field.

we grew due to our own will.india is divided among people who want to have carry the flag of india ,for india and by indians and those indians who carry the flag of their favoured foreign group based on religion,culture,values or ethnicity.these groupscan be further subdivided but i digress.

the only reason that some of the guys in the west are cosying up to us even a little is becuase there is no way back,they can possibly denuke us,they cant reverse the establishment and mastery of certain strategic tech,they cant reverse many things and so they tolerate.

these little glimpses of truth like when the comment on the mars landing show us the real west.i dont blame them for not wanting another rival looking to grab the geopolitical pie when they already have to deal with demographic change,china's rise,etc.they just cant do anything about it and so try to slow it down as much as possible.

their preferred strategy is now of containment.exclusion is over and a minority opinion.i will only propose take help from them in a very mercinery way without any cultural exchange.

 

[Knowitall]

@Bhumihar it is only through the destruction of America that the world can finally know a world peace.

A country formed of the dead bodies of 65 million native Americans shouldn't be allowed to exist in the first place.

America supports nations like Saudi UAE pakistan while bombing ME and preaching about democracy.

India with all its flaws has not even done 1% of the damage US has done to the world.

 

[Rassil Krishnan]

You guys are fighting un-necessarily, please take an deep breath.

1. US has not been kind to India geo-politically. Mostly It follows its national interest and does where ever suits interest of its oligarch. So every one from defence ind / missionaries lobbyist/ inducstries will dictate policy decisions depending on leverage and how much it can take out of this negotiations.
2. India has been bit naive and in reality its external posture is dependent on the internal strength and prevailing geo-politics. It cannot rely on US alone due to past baggage also restricted by economic realities.

India has to monkey balance over all geo-political game/ economic situation. when it goes out of the way to go against CCP, it basically falls into trap where US will end up using India as pawn to fight CCP. On the flip side, CCP is aggressive territorially and wants to control entire Asia economics under its influence to overthrow US as #1 nation. Currently, India is navigating both titans, its best if we can discuss if its possible to milk the situation and not getting burned in process. It will be long churn and time will tell.

it is more accurate to say that usa is even more deeply divided than india and its divisions are also more serious and irreversible as in the large groups have no issue on which to comprimise and that means that other than in a situation in which a very powerful enemy on the outside threaten everyone equally,they wont unite and this will only increase in the future.this will paralyze any president coming to take the seat and also other policymakers too.

the only reason the us was more united was due to the larger than life presence of the ussr.it gave an excuse.they also had a much better culture,demography,values position then.

i understand that india has a lot to improve but it is improving,its military and defence and industry is making slow but permenant changes for the better and america however is in terminal decline that wont be saved by any president unless he is willing to make drastic changes.

the only positive of immigration that you can say is iffy at best,getting mercenary attitude people is not a win,you need a certain zealotry that is only inspired by priml forces like tribe,religion,etc.those fairweather immigrants will start loving other countries when america declines,they may not show any loyalty to america in the first place.this is not mentioning the many freelodaer immigrants,etc.

 

[Chimaji Appa]

America is a woke wasteland that will decline and be overtaken by China, economically. Now that they can’t exploit middle Eastern countries for their oil gains, and profit off of their resources, let’s see how they adjust. Alliance with America will lead to the corruption of Indian society. But an alliance can never happen, India isn’t like Pakistan that it’s willing to be a lapdog for it.

 

[Rassil Krishnan]

@srevster let me put it this way- What is the incentive for US to let India grow?

The way we are headed, we seem to be close to surpassing them in the coming century.

If your answer is to contain China, then the reverse is also true-when India challenges US, they will support China. 5hats the way they stay ahead. My point is, milk them while you can when they fear from China. Get ready to ditch them when they start turning on us.

this is the energy i want india to be in,the srveetr or whatever the f his name is should undertand that the above is my take for indias stand in foreign policy.

i criticize my gov for deviation from this way of thinking.

you are asking for ideological alignment with the US when india if you look at its people,values and culture closely will suprisingly have more similarities with china than the US.

people on the street are fine with banning and limiting stuff when it goes against the country and culture of the indeginous people unlike the west and especially the US(even though the west after the turn of the century is also starting to ban stuff but curiously it is the fun stuff.)we are authoritarian friendly and I am sure if we present it in a different package most indians will take it in fine.

the only issue is that china is close by and hence will push for its way otherwise india would have let the whole SCS be taken by china.its the ladakh and arunachal that india deeply cares about.

 

[cannonfodder]

it is more accurate to say that usa is even more deeply divided than india and its divisions are also more serious and irreversible as in the large groups have no issue on which to comprimise and that means that other than in a situation in which a very powerful enemy on the outside threaten everyone equally,they wont unite and this will only increase in the future.this will paralyze any president coming to take the seat and also other policymakers too.

the only reason the us was more united was due to the larger than life presence of the ussr.it gave an excuse.they also had a much better culture,demography,values position then.

i understand that india has a lot to improve but it is improving,its military and defence and industry is making slow but permenant changes for the better and america however is in terminal decline that wont be saved by any president unless he is willing to make drastic changes.

the only positive of immigration that you can say is iffy at best,getting mercenary attitude people is not a win,you need a certain zealotry that is only inspired by priml forces like tribe,religion,etc.those fairweather immigrants will start loving other countries when america declines,they may not show any loyalty to america in the first place.this is not mentioning the many freelodaer immigrants,etc.

Dealing with diverse ethnic population politically is not that easy in general. I agree that that US fault lines are more or less shielded by economic and military power.

But I will re-iterate don't underestimate the yankees. Whatever you see on social media where 1-2% people make all noise and clutter is not good representation of overall political/economic landscape (there are various undercurrents etc.). Also currently it is in "good time make weak men" phase.

 

[Rassil Krishnan]

America is a woke wasteland that will decline and be overtaken by China, economically. Now that they can’t exploit middle Eastern countries for their oil gains, and profit off of their resources, let’s see how they adjust. Alliance with America will lead to the corruption of Indian society. But an alliance can never happen, India isn’t like Pakistan that it’s willing to be a lapdog for it.

i am fine with india trading with the usa,but it should be like the striclty friends with benefits relationships you see in the west.it should be strictly regualted while the relationship is progressing from our higher officials.as in no cultural exchange ,just trade.

also it is the USA that is making the other allies including india hesitate to form strong bonds with it as it has a strong corrosive self destructive dual cultural marxist and evangelist nature that forces its ways on any country that might consider a partnership.

atleast with china,you kind of know hat you are getting into.america is in many ways the same but with a heavy dollop of high horse wokeist evangelism.iswear,if it was not for chinese agreesive pushing for things like nine dash line that cannot be justified,then most will not sidewith usa which ran off from afhanistan,has these cultural cancer incubators within.

 

[altruist ROR]

A country with no culture can not survive. US is a perfect example. They are left with few year(not even a decade) to handle the internal, though irreversible, mess they have created for themselves.

Why Wokeism Will Rule the World

The woke movement could be the next great U.S. cultural export — and it is going to do many other countries some real good.

www.bloomberg.com

And they want the world to embrace these nation-cum-culture breaking values.
For India, the best interest is to maintain balance b/w US and CCP, maintaining enough checks and balances on Chinkis, not letting them do salami-slicing.

 

[Chimaji Appa]

i am fine with india trading with the usa,but it should be like the striclty friends with benefits relationships you see in the west.it should be strictly regualted while the relationship is progressing from our higher officials.as in no cultural exchange ,just trade.

also it is the USA that is making the other allies including india hesitate to form strong bonds with it as it has a strong corrosive self destructive dual cultural marxist and evangelist nature that forces its ways on any country that might consider a partnership.

atleast with china,you kind of know hat you are getting into.america is in many ways the same but with a heavy dollop of high horse wokeist evangelism.iswear,if it was not for chinese agreesive pushing for things like nine dash line that cannot be justified,then most will not sidewith usa which ran off from afhanistan,has these cultural cancer incubators within.

Yes. Economic relationships are always welcome. We should now how to exploit the best for their the neighbors. I am saying India should have no special alliance. Like the US can’t expect India to be it’s “democracy upholder” that fights an “evil Communist China”, like they did Pakistan. Our disputes with China are territorial, not ideological. China and India both descend from great civilizations and have great culture.

 

[Chimaji Appa]

A country with no culture can not survive. US is a perfect example. They are left with few year(not even a decade) to handle the internal, though irreversible, mess they have created for themselves.

Why Wokeism Will Rule the World

The woke movement could be the next great U.S. cultural export — and it is going to do many other countries some real good.

www.bloomberg.com

And they want the world to embrace these nation-cum-culture breaking values.
For India, the best interest is to maintain balance b/w US and CCP, maintaining enough checks and balances on Chinkis, not letting them do salami-slicing.

The thing is, our disputes with China are compeletly territorial. China isn’t trying to disintegrate our society with woke values like America is through their NGOs. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, we need to base our relationships with China based on our own interests, and not fight them becuase some man in the White House wants us to resist them for democratic states. India and China descend from two great civilizations. America doesn’t. That’s the difference.

 

[cannonfodder]

The thing is, our disputes with China are compeletly territorial. China isn’t trying to disintegrate our society with woke values like America is through their NGOs. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, we need to base our relationships with China based on our own interests, and not fight them becuase some man in the White House wants us to resist them for democratic states. India and China descend from two great civilizations. America doesn’t. That’s the difference.

Not true.. CCP uses naxals movements. Our comrades are chinese... CCP comrades are nationalist.

Both CCP and US are titans, they will try to dominate & remain on top of the food chain.

 

[Rassil Krishnan]

Okay, then why does India care about Tibet and Taiwan? India interference in China affairs. why does India care about Ukraine or Palestine?
as per your logic, India should keep its nose out of all of these affairs since they don’t affect you directly. Don’t use whataboutery as an excuse for incompetence in foreign policy.

india is just as inconsistent as America. America just has more dollars and weight to throw around so you feel a bigger impact.

don’t use whataboutery, and instead use introspection to analyze why previous policy has failed to improve on what you do in the future.

none of the other countries like the patronizing comments from India either, especially when it doesn’t have the national power to back it up. In my opinion. india should grow powerful by partnership and then throw its weight around. Talk less, do more and show leadership through actions and not speeches.

india did not promise to spread its word and way everywhere around the world like america thinks and confirms through its actions and then acts like why a lot of nations think the usa is just a hypocritical hipster champaigne liberal country(what is epitomizes mostly since the 1960s,before it was the redneck and the picket fence),basically a neoconservative.there is a reason why people dont like neoconservatives and as long as america channels that energy,they will be hated as they have both the AIR OF A priest trying to evangelize and the violence of interventionism and as a newest addition,the degenaracy of the hipster wokester too.none of these archtypes are liked by most groups around the world.

but american policy epitomizes this now.hell trumpian redneckism is more tolerable than this,leave it to beaverism is better than this but i know that any visible sign of this will be cancelled according the current US establishment.not that those were the best for us indians,but atleast we could identify and emulate some of their cultural traits to benefit us.

1.priest attitude - our people become thralls to wokeism and harass our own country men
2.interventionism - our country participates in wars that do not benefit our interests when it could spend time and effort on long term internal development and our real enemies internally and extrnally like pakistan
3. wokester - degenerates culture and people to a point they become useless as citizens.

india does not go around and force other countries half way across the world to follow anything,the most it could be said to have done is present a way of doing things with no binding action for violations and most no comment and the rest are just internal fights or wars in our neighourhood,something I would suggest the US to indulge in as they are literaaly being invaded by hostile demograhics from haiti and mexico instead of trying to teach 7th century goat shaggers on not fing their own sons and kill each other.

 

[Chimaji Appa]

Not true.. CCP uses naxals movements. Our comrades are chinese... CCP comrades are nationalist.

Both CCP and US are titans, they will try to dominate & remain on top of the food chain.

Source for CCP funding Naxals? Didn’t china refuse to fund them?