India US Relations

[Kharavela]

Those refuelling started on 9th of January 1991 , ( two aircrafts per day ) and it lasted up to the second week of war , ( in total about 18 days of refuelling ).

War Dates are here for you :

Operation Desert Shield (2 August 1990 – 17 January 1991)

Operation Desert Storm (17 January 1991 – 28 February 1991)

​

It was during Chandrasekhar govt, when Dr Swamy was Commerce Minister.

India was in deep financial crisis & needed $ 2 Billion loan from IMF. US voted in favor of the loan due to this bargain.

 

[Yumdoot]

1987 to 1992 period is perhaps where the CIA workings bore results in India.

Fairfax, Bofors, Assassinations, Short term govts. with people of doubtful bearings, LTTE, Kashmir, Balochistan - saala complete mess.

People who do not know their history are going to repeat it.

 

[ezsasa]

Yes I agree, there is no such things as friends of America.

It's like what Roosevelt said " being enemy of America is dangerous, being friend of America is fatal".

This is true because, once in American orbit those guys assume the other country as a client state and expect full cooperation on all aspects.

You will find that almost all "so called" American allies always have second front against America.. This second front is used as a bargaining chip to put pressure on Americans when required.

1) Pakistan - Taliban and jehadism
2) turkey - technically created the current refugee crisis and let Isis spread into Europe
3) Mexico - drugs and immigration
4) Columbia - drugs


If you dig, you will some issue or other with all American allies which is detrimental to American interests.

 

[Zebra]

Yes I agree, there is no such things as friends of America.

It's like what Roosevelt said " being enemy of America is dangerous, being friend of America is fatal".

This is true because, once in American orbit those guys assume the other country as a client state and expect full cooperation on all aspects.

You will find that almost all "so called" American allies always have second front against America.. This second front is used as a bargaining chip to put pressure on Americans when required.

1) Pakistan - Taliban and jehadism
2) turkey - technically created the current refugee crisis and let Isis spread into Europe
3) Mexico - drugs and immigration
4) Columbia - drugs


If you dig, you will some issue or other with all American allies which is detrimental to American interests.

http://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/it_may_be_dangerous_to_be_americas_enemy_but_to_be_americas_friend_is_fatal/

 

[ezsasa]

http://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/it_may_be_dangerous_to_be_americas_enemy_but_to_be_americas_friend_is_fatal/

My bad...

Not Roosevelt ...
It was Kissinger...

 

[LETHALFORCE]

How has being America's friend been bad for Pakistan,Japan or NATO nations?
I don't see anything negative . American friends economies(except pak) boomed
and their security was ensured. What is the negative ? USA asked for support for something? What a terrible thing for America to do. Stop being shellfish. Even Russia is no friend of India. It is only improved relations with the west that has improved Indian economy.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

How has being America's friend been bad for Pakistan,Japan or NATO nations?
I don't see anything negative . American friends economies(except pak) boomed
and their security was ensured. What is the negative ? USA asked for support for something? What a terrible thing for America to do. Stop being shellfish. Even Russia is no friend of India. It is only improved relations with the west that has improved Indian economy.

Question is whether you share US world vision?

The above countries did not have diagonally opposite agenda to US foreign policy and were/are not heavy weights compared to US. India is going to be a big boy and it has to achieve it on its own. Only two countries china and India has that potential and man-power to challenge US hegemony. This means their goals cannot be aligned for far too long in the future.

 

[Zebra]

How has being America's friend been bad for Pakistan,Japan or NATO nations?
I don't see anything negative . American friends economies(except pak) boomed
and their security was ensured. What is the negative ? USA asked for support for something? What a terrible thing for America to do. Stop being shellfish. Even Russia is no friend of India. It is only improved relations with the west that has improved Indian economy.

It is nothing wrong in US itself.

But the trouble is few countries' politicians don't understand how they can milk US, that is the problem.

 

[Zebra]

^^

I give you an example.

Philippines and Singapore.

Philippines failed to take that advantage of US, Singapore took maximum of it.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

^^

I give you an example.

Philippines and Singapore.

Philippines failed to take that advantage of US, Singapore took maximum of it.

Philippines had preferential immigration to USA for a long time especially for professional like nurses. If countries cannot benefit from relations with USA that is not usa's fault.


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[LETHALFORCE]

Question is whether you share US world vision?

The above countries did not have diagonally opposite agenda to US foreign policy and were/are not heavy weights compared to US. India is going to be a big boy and it has to achieve it on its own. Only two countries china and India has that potential and man-power to challenge US hegemony. This means their goals cannot be aligned for far too long in the future.

Even China and India manpower aside are not a threat for USA. If USA is able to provide something and India accepting the relation is mutual. USA is not asking for any partners for hegemonic ambitions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[garg_bharat]

Question is whether you share US world vision?

The above countries did not have diagonally opposite agenda to US foreign policy and were/are not heavy weights compared to US. India is going to be a big boy and it has to achieve it on its own. Only two countries china and India has that potential and man-power to challenge US hegemony. This means their goals cannot be aligned for far too long in the future.

Well sometimes short term goals trump long term goals.

Even I would say long term goals are hazy. No one can say Indian leaders are clear about long term goals.

Challenging US hegemony is not a stated goal of any Indian leader. Never heard that.

Even non-aligned movement is dead. India has tagged along some superpower since LBS's times. It was USSR before, now the tune of USA is becoming sweet.

China has taken a different path from India. China has actually achieved the wherewithal to challenge US power in a way. India does not seem to have it.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Well sometimes short term goals trump long term goals.

Even I would say long term goals are hazy. No one can say Indian leaders are clear about long term goals.

Challenging US hegemony is not a stated goal of any Indian leader. Never heard that.

Even non-aligned movement is dead. India has tagged along some superpower since LBS's times. It was USSR before, now the tune of USA is becoming sweet.

China has taken a different path from India. China has actually achieved the wherewithal to challenge US power in a way. India does not seem to have it.

If India grows at 7-8% for next 15 yrs, it will automatically end up challenging US, the way it happened in case of China. You don't have to be a genius to outline that!

But if all your fighter jets and critical defence hardware comes from US, you will pull punches much below your economic weight.

 

[garg_bharat]

If India grows at 7-8% for next 15 yrs, it will automatically end up challenging US, the way it happened in case of China. You don't have to be a genius to outline that!

But if all your fighter jets and critical defence hardware comes from US, you will pull punches much below your economic weight.

If India grows at 7-8%, its economy will be about 6T in 2031. US economy will be about 20T. So it does not seem to catch up.

One line of US fighters does not mean that all fighters will be imported from US. India was looking for a western fighter for a long time. It could have happened for Rafale if French were more reasonable.

We still have Russian fighters, and local fighters will also pick up.

India will not spend more than 2B per year on the American fighter (or the western fighter). So it will not kill other programs.

 

[Bahamut]

SCO has no militarily capable countries to tackle NATO countries except Russia and China. India be proved a great addition to both Rosters if joins. Or it can proved to be a great blow in works order by creating a third pole inside the bipolar world.

The idea of SCO is that US or any other country does not create problem in Asian land mass ,because it is we that deal with consequences.Other then that it is mainly a economics collaboration with only defensive military capability.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

If India grows at 7-8%, its economy will be about 6T in 2031. US economy will be about 20T. So it does not seem to catch up.

One line of US fighters does not mean that all fighters will be imported from US. India was looking for a western fighter for a long time. It could have happened for Rafale if French were more reasonable.

We still have Russian fighters, and local fighters will also pick up.

India will not spend more than 2B per year on the American fighter (or the western fighter). So it will not kill other programs.

6T in absolute terms, roughly 10-12T in PPP terms. It won't help buy stuff from abroad, but for domestic purpose, PPP matters as India can fund more projects. For eg- MOM was so cheap for India, no other nation can do that.

Till US sells critical tech to Pak, it is not dependable.

I am actually enjoying Rafale debacle. Hope it knocks some sense into HAL and other zombies and force them to churn out Tejas at higher pace.

 

[garg_bharat]

Till US sells critical tech to Pak, it is not dependable.

US does not sell critical tech to Paki. Remember nuclear bomb and missiles are given by China not US.
F-16 and AH1H do not change the equation too much. Conventional weapons are limited in effect. Countering paki's conventional weapons is not difficult for India.

I think US influence in Pakistan is good for India. It is China that is a worry.

 

[harsh]

India, US agree to share military logistics for warships, aircraft

NEW DELHI: India and the United States have agreed in principle to share military logistics, US defense secretary Ashton Carter said on Tuesday, as both sides seek to counter the growing maritime assertiveness of China.
Washington has been urging New Delhi to sign the Logistics Support Agreement that allows the two militaries to use each other's land, air and naval bases for resupplies, repair and rest.
But after years of dithering, the two sides said an agreement was in hand, although not yet ready for signing.

"We have agreed in principle that all the issues are resolved. We now need to finalise the draft," Carter said after talks with his defence minister Manohar Parrikar.

New Delhi has had concerns that the logistics agreement will draw it into a military alliance with the United States and undermine its traditional autonomy.
But Prime Minister Narendra Modi's administration, faced with an assertive China expanding its influence in the South China Sea and into the Indian Ocean, has signalled its desire to draw closer to the United States. China is also a close ally of India's arch rival, Pakistan.
New Delhi is keen to access US technology for PM Modi's "Make in India" plans to build a domestic defence industrial base and cut expensive arms imports.
Carter said the two countries would also soon conclude a commercial shipping information exchange agreement.

 

[harsh]

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/Ind...or-warships-aircraft/articleshow/51792776.cms

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

US does not sell critical tech to Paki. Remember nuclear bomb and missiles are given by China not US.
F-16 and AH1H do not change the equation too much. Conventional weapons are limited in effect. Countering paki's conventional weapons is not difficult for India.

I think US influence in Pakistan is good for India. It is China that is a worry.

What pt is buying F-18 if it gets jammed against war with Pak. It will dent conventional capability a lot.

China might have sold critical tech to Pak but Pak is artificial creation of Brits and now used by their successor US in geo-political war. Don't expect US to ditch them in times of need. US is still funding them even after discovering that Pak was hiding Osama. There is more to this relationship than meets the eye.