India to select one or more fighter aircraft to be built by private sector

[smestarz]

USA send 4 billions per year for helping Israel. I'm not sure they are OK to divert some from buying non US fighters.

America has a strong jewish lobby, and no matter what USA is obliged to support Israel. What did USA do when Israel conducted unprovoked attackes on Lebanon?

 

[garg_bharat]

As IAF is upgrading Mig-29, no need of buying Mig-35.
Maybe Navy will buy more Mig-29K. I think navy needs more Mig-29K if it has to operate two mid-size carriers.

LCA-N still looks not ready. Possible Navy goes for Mig-29K only on its carriers. LCA-N can operate from coast. Low fuel capacity of LCA-N and limited load capacity makes it almost useless for carrier borne ops.

 

[BON PLAN]

Actual all of them are confirmed buy ,Egypt is trying be nice to everyone ,no one knows who is calling the shots in middle east.

See nothing about that.... .

 

[Immanuel]

They just have to debug some millions of code lines....

Well, they have time to do that, by the way there are already more F-35s flying than Rafales and soon they'll have accumulated more flying hours than the entire Rafale fleet. Let's not pretend to compare the scale of these 2 programs. No aircraft in history has ever been tested to the levels that the F-35 is being tested.

 

[BON PLAN]

Egypt did pay Russians advance for MiG-35,, the Russians will give the delivery of the first two planes in 2016 end...
And by the way, I had arranged the names as per the time ordeed.. F-16 in use, Mig-35 ordered in 2014 (advance paid by egypt) ,, Rafale ordered in 2015 (funded by France) So the point was not about Rafale but the point was abt having 3 planes doing the same job.. Its like having a Lion, Tiger and a panther,, which is a circus...

And by the way Rafale does come last, be it alphabetically F-16 ,Mig-35, Rafale or in way the planes were ordered... the question mark is in right place

Mig 35 ordered in 2014 ? absolutely no news about that. Send us a link please. And no one in the egyptian air force to day. Rafale : 6 already delivered. It's a fact.
Rafale funded by France? As a lot a weapons deal all around the world.

 

[BON PLAN]

YES the only customer is UAE, the other customers have either gone for F/A-18 or now for F-35.
By the way it ha an AESA since past 9 years, and Rafale has just now, and you are calling it as French achievement ... hahahaha Hilarious

Once again : false.
RBE2 AESA is industrialy produce from 2012. And all the software from the PESA model, developped since mid 90's are suitable (you can change of antenna from PESA to AESA and reverse in 2 hours). So that AESA has 15 years of software improvements. Not like some others, exclude US ones of course.

 

[BON PLAN]

Egypt now has a Dictator in ruling, And I dont think Democracy is going to come anytime soon.
Gen Sisi knew France is desperate to Sell Rafales as he knew India will not order Rafales (at lest not even then) so he felt its good to make deal for FREMM Frigate (which egypt really needs) and 24 Rafales (which egypt does not really need considering they have 200+ F-16 and have ordered MiG-35 (and paid advance) still Gen Sisi went ahead and ordered FREMM and Rafale and since Egypt is already down on its knees, the French paid for the deal themselves. So now the French are happy with Dassault order book saying "we sold to egypt , we sold to egypt" , but they are actually the ones paying for it too" egypt gets assurance that in case of any resolution against Egypt govt, at least France will support it.

the case of egypt is like "nanga nahayega kya, nichodega kya" get the drift?

We don't paid for that plane. French private banks do a loan. The deal is maainly PAID by Saudi Arabia.

Why they diecided to take a non US plane? becaus they see there are not free to use the huge fleet of F16 as they want (UAE experience same thing during lybian campaign). And Egyptian F16 are not top edge fighter because israel too near. And they made a choice. Raffale is their choice.

 

[BON PLAN]

Well, they have time to do that, by the way there are already more F-35s flying than Rafales and soon they'll have accumulated more flying hours than the entire Rafale fleet. Let's not pretend to compare the scale of these 2 programs. No aircraft in history has ever been tested to the levels that the F-35 is being tested.

Today's news from Avia news

The F-35 too sensitive for cyberwar !

Too much computer can be dangerous cyber security, this is the conclusion that has been made by the Director of Operational Test and Evaluation (DOT & E) Lockheed Strike Fighter program -Martin F-35.

In the coming months, the F-35 program will receive a new version of its software ALIS (Autonomic Logistics Information System) but concerns remain about the performance and safety of it. Indeed, a report by the Director of Operational Test and Evaluation (DOT & E) published in January suggested that the ALIS software must in no case be put into service in its current version in order to set initial operational capability (IOC) of the F-35 in the US Air Force. Indeed, according to the report the system does not provide the necessary security for cyberwar. The current version of the software is too permeable facing a cyber-attack for penetrating the system of the F-35!

It must be said that if a hacker manages to penetrate the ALIS system that communicates directly from each aircraft on the ground, it will have access to the entire maintenance management cell, mission systems and cryptographic keys used on each F-35 in service. Needless to say, if the enemy accesses this data, it can change at ease and nail the fleet of F-35 to the ground. In addition it will also have access to data from other users nations of the aircraft.

While the program may be modified to provide additional security, but critics on "any computer" are growing about the F-35 and some experts believe that cyber warfare electronics, so important for this plane will turn against him.

 

[Immanuel]

Bahamut

I have read this one many years ago, long before an upgrade of the SH was proposed, SH Advanced is quite a different beast, adding CFTs, additional RCS reduction methods, uprated engines with 20% added thrust per engine thus promising higher ranges, better fuel consumption and transonic kinematic performance. Moreso, the SH will also features large panel displays, upgraded MAWs, stealth Pods, improved IRST etc.

The Super Flanker will always be very dangerous in A2A. The SH using the likes of Aim-120D can challenge the Flanker and in high alpha capabilties its still one of the best Western performers, the Growler keep in mind is the only aircraft to have a confirmed BVR A2A kill on the F-22 during excercises. Only proves its a good over-all aircraft. As said, in the Indian context, the Super Hornet brings multirole abilities with reasonable operating costs, extensive weapons options & proven reliability over thousands of combat hours.

 

[Immanuel]

Today's news from Avia news

The F-35 too sensitive for cyberwar !

Too much computer can be dangerous cyber security, this is the conclusion that has been made by the Director of Operational Test and Evaluation (DOT & E) Lockheed Strike Fighter program -Martin F-35.

In the coming months, the F-35 program will receive a new version of its software ALIS (Autonomic Logistics Information System) but concerns remain about the performance and safety of it. Indeed, a report by the Director of Operational Test and Evaluation (DOT & E) published in January suggested that the ALIS software must in no case be put into service in its current version in order to set initial operational capability (IOC) of the F-35 in the US Air Force. Indeed, according to the report the system does not provide the necessary security for cyberwar. The current version of the software is too permeable facing a cyber-attack for penetrating the system of the F-35!

It must be said that if a hacker manages to penetrate the ALIS system that communicates directly from each aircraft on the ground, it will have access to the entire maintenance management cell, mission systems and cryptographic keys used on each F-35 in service. Needless to say, if the enemy accesses this data, it can change at ease and nail the fleet of F-35 to the ground. In addition it will also have access to data from other users nations of the aircraft.

While the program may be modified to provide additional security, but critics on "any computer" are growing about the F-35 and some experts believe that cyber warfare electronics, so important for this plane will turn against him.

such articles only prove what I said, the aircraft is under testing quite extensively and all major issues will be solved by FOC around 2021, its easy to pull criticism on an aircraft thats still in testing.

 

[Tactical Frog]

Egypt now has a Dictator in ruling, And I dont think Democracy is going to come anytime soon.
Gen Sisi knew France is desperate to Sell Rafales as he knew India will not order Rafales (at lest not even then) so he felt its good to make deal for FREMM Frigate (which egypt really needs) and 24 Rafales (which egypt does not really need considering they have 200+ F-16 and have ordered MiG-35 (and paid advance) still Gen Sisi went ahead and ordered FREMM and Rafale and since Egypt is already down on its knees, the French paid for the deal themselves. So now the French are happy with Dassault order book saying "we sold to egypt , we sold to egypt" , but they are actually the ones paying for it too" egypt gets assurance that in case of any resolution against Egypt govt, at least France will support it.

the case of egypt is like "nanga nahayega kya, nichodega kya" get the drift?

I hope nobody ' s paying attention to thie insane amount of nonsense you keep posting .. Rafale put into storage ( only in your imagination) and now France paying for the Egyptian deal ( that is the kind of stories you hear daily from uninformed dummies in France) .
It is not because there is a loan from French banks than u can say France is paying for Egypt. A loan is a loan !

 

[Bahamut]

Bahamut

I have read this one many years ago, long before an upgrade of the SH was proposed, SH Advanced is quite a different beast, adding CFTs, additional RCS reduction methods, uprated engines with 20% added thrust per engine thus promising higher ranges, better fuel consumption and transonic kinematic performance. Moreso, the SH will also features large panel displays, upgraded MAWs, stealth Pods, improved IRST etc.

The Super Flanker will always be very dangerous in A2A. The SH using the likes of Aim-120D can challenge the Flanker and in high alpha capabilties its still one of the best Western performers, the Growler keep in mind is the only aircraft to have a confirmed BVR A2A kill on the F-22 during excercises. Only proves its a good over-all aircraft. As said, in the Indian context, the Super Hornet brings multirole abilities with reasonable operating costs, extensive weapons options & proven reliability over thousands of combat hours.

Well the trails were done a long time back and the Mig 35 has plans for a new radar FAD 35 or some thing like that plus changes in sensors and avionics.F 18 is not good for A2A combat against China J 10 ,Flankers or Pak F 16 .Typhoon is rafale is another dress so out of the question and Gripen NG is expensive (100 million per piece ) and is conflicts with LCA. F 16 is out of question .That leaves Mig 35 and F 18 SH in race .E 18 growler is electronic attack aircraft and we can do better if we fit latest Russian,French or Israeli jammer and radar tracker in Mig 35 or Su 30.Is IAF offered Growler ?F 18 is a better bomber and strike aircraft but what ever it holds is in the maturity of the software which it lose by the Mig 35 .We can easily fit Brahmosh NG missle and we get a good attack aircraft.If we had to replace Jaguar then SH is 1st choice as its primary role is bombing but the primary role is going to supplement Su 30 MKI in A2A combat and for that Mig 35 is a better choice .

 

[BON PLAN]

such articles only prove what I said, the aircraft is under testing quite extensively and all major issues will be solved by FOC around 2021, its easy to pull criticism on an aircraft thats still in testing.

Still in testing but :
- more numbers produced than Rafale !
- On study until....october 2001 (official selection of X35).

 

[BON PLAN]

I hope nobody ' s paying attention to thie insane amount of nonsense you keep posting .. Rafale put into storage ( only in your imagination) and now France paying for the Egyptian deal ( that is the kind of stories you hear daily from uninformed dummies in France) .
It is not because there is a loan from French banks than u can say France is paying for Egypt. A loan is a loan !

Indeed.

For my sweet Smerdetarz
Just remember the gift made by the USA to help the sell of F16 in Morocco.... not a loan, a gift for culture developpment !!!

 

[Immanuel]

Well the trails were done a long time back and the Mig 35 has plans for a new radar FAD 35 or some thing like that plus changes in sensors and avionics.F 18 is not good for A2A combat against China J 10 ,Flankers or Pak F 16 .Typhoon is rafale is another dress so out of the question and Gripen NG is expensive (100 million per piece ) and is conflicts with LCA. F 16 is out of question .That leaves Mig 35 and F 18 SH in race .E 18 growler is electronic attack aircraft and we can do better if we fit latest Russian,French or Israeli jammer and radar tracker in Mig 35 or Su 30.Is IAF offered Growler ?F 18 is a better bomber and strike aircraft but what ever it holds is in the maturity of the software which it lose by the Mig 35 .We can easily fit Brahmosh NG missle and we get a good attack aircraft.If we had to replace Jaguar then SH is 1st choice as its primary role is bombing but the primary role is going to supplement Su 30 MKI in A2A combat and for that Mig 35 is a better choice .

Mig-35's radar is no where close to the performance of the SH, actually it happens to be one of the best operational AESAs out there and its being upgraded. Super Hornet can hold its own against any threat in Asia be it Flankers or Paki Falcons simply because of the radar, decent high alpha performance and wide range of weapons abilit. The Advanced SH being offered to India also comes with new IRST, MAWS, upgraded radar with counter eletronic attack modes, large panel displays, higher thrust engines, Mig-35 though a good aircraft is no where near as multirole as the Super Hornet. Also, Mig-35 is a tougher sell for the IAF than the SH, IAF clearly wants to have something not Russian. However, IAF can always be over-ruled by a strong MOD.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-VhQJQ2CEM...flefoI8/s1600/F18-Advanced-Super-Hornet-3.png

Also Mig-35 was one of the worst over-all performers in the MRCA trials because of maintenance, the MTBFs of its radars, engines were no where close to the requirement or competition. SH's engines can be changed in 30 mins, the F 414 has a MTBF over 2000 hrs etc. The SH also has much higher operational range with better payload.

 

[BON PLAN]

Still in testing but :
- more numbers produced than Rafale !
- On study until....october 2001 (official selection of X35).

2021... 20 years to have a plane operationnal.... a kind of record no?

 

[BON PLAN]

Mig-35's radar is no where close to the performance of the SH, actually it happens to be one of the best operational AESAs out there and its being upgraded. Super Hornet can hold its own against any threat in Asia be it Flankers or Paki Falcons simply because of the radar, decent high alpha performance and wide range of weapons abilit. The Advanced SH being offered to India also comes with new IRST, MAWS, upgraded radar with counter eletronic attack modes, large panel displays, higher thrust engines, Mig-35 though a good aircraft is no where near as multirole as the Super Hornet. Also, Mig-35 is a tougher sell for the IAF than the SH, IAF clearly wants to have something not Russian. However, IAF can always be over-ruled by a strong MOD.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-VhQJQ2CEM...flefoI8/s1600/F18-Advanced-Super-Hornet-3.png

Also Mig-35 was one of the worst over-all performers in the MRCA trials because of maintenance, the MTBFs of its radars, engines were no where close to the requirement or competition. SH's engines can be changed in 30 mins, the F 414 has a MTBF over 2000 hrs etc. The SH also has much higher operational range with better payload.

Again it's difficult to compare a medium fighter to a heavy one.

 

[Immanuel]

Again it's difficult to compare a medium fighter to a heavy one.

Offcourse but if the choice is between Mig-35 and SH, SH is a better prospect, it has a steady support netwwork, USN will use it into 2040s and thus upgrades are quite easily funded by the USN.

 

[Immanuel]

2021... 20 years to have a plane operationnal.... a kind of record no?

Rafale tech demonstrator flew in 1986 and the 1st aircraft were inducted into service in 2000 so 14 years. 1st F-35 as we know it flew in 2006 and should be fully inducted by 2020+ roughly the same time. X-35 was merely a competition prototype.

 

[garg_bharat]

Well the trails were done a long time back and the Mig 35 has plans for a new radar FAD 35 or some thing like that plus changes in sensors and avionics.F 18 is not good for A2A combat against China J 10 ,Flankers or Pak F 16 .Typhoon is rafale is another dress so out of the question and Gripen NG is expensive (100 million per piece ) and is conflicts with LCA. F 16 is out of question .That leaves Mig 35 and F 18 SH in race .E 18 growler is electronic attack aircraft and we can do better if we fit latest Russian,French or Israeli jammer and radar tracker in Mig 35 or Su 30.Is IAF offered Growler ?F 18 is a better bomber and strike aircraft but what ever it holds is in the maturity of the software which it lose by the Mig 35 .We can easily fit Brahmosh NG missle and we get a good attack aircraft.If we had to replace Jaguar then SH is 1st choice as its primary role is bombing but the primary role is going to supplement Su 30 MKI in A2A combat and for that Mig 35 is a better choice .

I keep hearing competition with LCA but you forget that Gripen NG was in MMRCA tender. This was a tender by invitation means IAF has already pre-selected Gripen as a possible MMRCA candidate.

So while you say so, it may not be in tune with IAF thinking or justifications given by IAF to MOD.

IAF has given certain parameters for MMRCA to MOD. MOD can still approve Gripen if it meets the parameters, even if it is not the best of all possible contenders.

I said the same thing in 2014 on this very message board. I don't know why people fail to understand basic things.

I see low chances of American planes because these will not meet unit price and offset conditions.