India to select one or more fighter aircraft to be built by private sector

[BON PLAN]

e

The best thing about rafale is its marketing, The french have marketed everything and to such an extent that people realise that its over rated. No plane without the shaping, can be truly Stealth.

If it was, we had selled it until 10 years !

The Rafale is a mix between stealth and electronic protection. It's not why you don't understand what it is and how it works than Spectra is like you say. France invest in electronic support mesures until 60's with the deterrence force. We have a huge experience !

 

[Jangaruda]

Mine is Mig 35 ,its advance and have a good electronic components ,no ToT problem and production base exist .Mig 35 is based on Mig 29 M2 and Mig 29k and it is a fundamental new jet .It is like Su 35 and Su 27.

But buying the mig 35 means total dependance on russia, something which is not very comfortable to India

 

[BON PLAN]

Eh Smerdetarz, have you seen my flag ?

 

[dawingman]

Because of heavy reliance on foreign equipment and corruption India will always look to buy aircraft.

 

[garg_bharat]

But buying the mig 35 means total dependance on russia, something which is not very comfortable to India

Buying any foreign plane is uncomfortable.

Russia has never sanctioned India. Europe has become sanction-happy, same with USA.

People MUST understand that India CANNOT work according to wishes of foreign countries. India has its own priorities and foreign policy. This requires India to develop sources of technology and equipment that are relatively free from foreign political interference.

Russia does not force India to make choices in its domestic or international policy.

 

[smestarz]

Dassault always said if there is no more support on defense programme, It will quit this market and invest all on business jets. Dassault make planes to earn money. To make fighter is OK only if it is good for Dassault. It's a private company.
And suddenly.... we sell 48 Rafale.... Not too bad.

Dasault sold 48 planes thanks to Modis movie, but then India is not buying, So Dasault can consider that as a last Hurrah...But in selling those plane, it is France that has financed the deal itself. So technically you are the buyer and you are the seller..

 

[garg_bharat]

Because of heavy reliance on foreign equipment and corruption India will always look to buy aircraft.

I do not think so. Once private sector comes in a big way, everything will be made in India.

 

[BON PLAN]

Dasault sold 48 planes thanks to Modis movie, but then India is not buying, So Dasault can consider that as a last Hurrah...But in selling those plane, it is France that has financed the deal itself. So technically you are the buyer and you are the seller..

24 were sold BEFORE Modi coming in France. The last 24 just after. Absolutely no link with india.
The 24 for Egypte are paid mainly by Saudi Arabia, with a loan (a loan, not a present) from french private banks, as usually made by US.
The 24 for Qatar.... no need of a loan, they have all the money in bank.

 

[BON PLAN]

I do not think so. Once private sector comes in a big way, everything will be made in India.

It take time to built such a high level industry.
To assemble part is one thing, to made forging components for exemple is another.
But if you want it hard, it's only a question of time and money.

 

[smestarz]

e

If it was, we had selled it until 10 years !

The Rafale is a mix between stealth and electronic protection. It's not why you don't understand what it is and how it works than Spectra is like you say. France invest in electronic support mesures until 60's with the deterrence force. We have a huge experience !

LOL very much like SPECTRA BS... SPECTRA is not what its being marketed as,
Funny the French say that any aircraft that opens its radar, SPECTRA can detect it and then strike it
But still Rafale has the need to have its own Radar. so SPECTRA is not really that reliable,
Also Rafale with it smaller range weapons, cannot target a plane at much longer distance,
YES the french have huge experience,.. they tried to hold on to vietnam were beaten back, the Americans had to get them out of their, same case in Algeria, but then the french did not wait for the Americans, they did turn tail.. A LOT OF EXPERIENCE I MIGHT SAY.

 

[smestarz]

24 were sold BEFORE Modi coming in France. The last 24 just after. Absolutely no link with india.
The 24 for Egypte are paid mainly by Saudi Arabia, with a loan (a loan, not a present) from french private banks, as usually made by US.
The 24 for Qatar.... no need of a loan, they have all the money in bank.

Which 24 ? Stop fooling yourself boy. Only after Modi did announce the 36 planes, then did Egypt want to order Rafale, You can read your own French news and see the timing of Modi announcement and when the Egypt order came. Do check your own records as to WHEN EXACTLY DID EGYPT SIGN THE DEAL.. before modi went to france or after it... Rather vstol even commented that Modi managed to fool the egyptians to get them buy Rafale.

 

[BON PLAN]

LOL very much like SPECTRA BS... SPECTRA is not what its being marketed as,
Funny the French say that any aircraft that opens its radar, SPECTRA can detect it and then strike it
But still Rafale has the need to have its own Radar. so SPECTRA is not really that reliable,
Also Rafale with it smaller range weapons, cannot target a plane at much longer distance,
YES the french have huge experience,.. they tried to hold on to vietnam were beaten back, the Americans had to get them out of their, same case in Algeria, but then the french did not wait for the Americans, they did turn tail.. A LOT OF EXPERIENCE I MIGHT SAY.

Where do you read it need to open it's radar to shoot? If Rafale is in chase, it use its radar, if it is in defense it leave the opponent use its own and thru Spectra fired missile on it.

Smaller range weapons? You speak about MICA? Just wiat 2 small years and Meteor will be there.

Vietnam? France never fought in vietnam. It was a US war and a US defeat.

Algeria? My dear you don't know history. France wins militarily speaking, but lost on political term : it was just humanly impossible to continue to leave the algerian people far away its destiny. As GB with india.

 

[BON PLAN]

Which 24 ? Stop fooling yourself boy. Only after Modi did announce the 36 planes, then did Egypt want to order Rafale, You can read your own French news and see the timing of Modi announcement and when the Egypt order came. Do check your own records as to WHEN EXACTLY DID EGYPT SIGN THE DEAL.. before modi went to france or after it... Rather vstol even commented that Modi managed to fool the egyptians to get them buy Rafale.

NO.
Egypt firm orders in february 2015. Modi came in Paris in April. No announcement before. It's easy to understand no?

 

[garg_bharat]

After moves by Draghi this week, I am convinced that EU is moving towards financial disaster.

France now represents a risky supplier. Giving critical projects to France will be same as giving critical projects to USSR just before its breakup.

 

[garg_bharat]

A country in distress cannot honor its commercial commitments.

The negative interest rate means very bad financial condition.

 

[BON PLAN]

After moves by Draghi this week, I am convinced that EU is moving towards financial disaster.

France now represents a risky supplier. Giving critical projects to France will be same as giving critical projects to USSR just before its breakup.

Ah ah ah..... you are not a Financial specialist, for sure.
France today has access to negative loan....

French debt is 2000 billiards. French people have 2300 billiards in banks : no problem.

See US situation. more than 103% of debt vs PIB. Total EU : 93% (France : 96%.) Japan .... 229%

 

[BON PLAN]

The negative interest rate means very bad financial condition.

ABSOLUTELY NOT !

When you don't trust to some one your interest rate is high as an insurance. a compensation to the risk.

When you trust, and money is cheap, you can take a small insurance. Germany, Switzerland... and now France have access to negative interest rate. It's a proof of confidence, not the contrary.

 

[Jangaruda]

Mine is Mig 35 ,its advance and have a good electronic components ,no ToT problem and production base exist .Mig 35 is based on Mig 29 M2 and Mig 29k and it is a fundamental new jet .It is like Su 35 and Su 27.

Russia is now becoming an unreliable spare supplier as the serviceability of Su 30MKIs r vry low nd also buying mig 35 means total dependence on Russians,something which we must nevr repeat... On the bright side the russian economy is in a state of mess so if v buy mig 35 it would give a big boost to Indo Russo Relations..

 

[Bahamut]

Russia is now becoming an unreliable spare supplier as the serviceability of Su 30MKIs r vry low nd also buying mig 35 means total dependence on Russians,something which we must nevr repeat... On the bright side the russian economy is in a state of mess so if v buy mig 35 it would give a big boost to Indo Russo Relations..

This is the third time I giving the reason for low service of Su 30 MKI ,IAF does not maintain spares in large quantity for Su 30 MKI.
Here is a abstract

By standard norms, a fighter fleet consumes five per cent of its worth in consumables and spares each year. By that benchmark the Su-30MKI fleet, currently worth about Rs 69,000 crore - 193 Su-30MKIs at Rs 358 crore a fighter - should consume spares worth Rs 3,450 crore annually. Yet, IAF orders from HAL add up to less than Rs 50 crore, including ground handling equipment.

Without competent inventory management by IAF, and with spares ordered piecemeal when defects arise, Su-30MKI fighters spend weeks on the ground awaiting spares.

To ensure that 13-14 per cent of the Su-30MKI fleet is not grounded for want of spares, HAL has stockpiled spares worth Rs 400 crore in Nashik. According to S Subrahmanyan, the chief of HAL's Nashik facility, the inventory is based on a study of consumption patterns of Su-30MKI spares over the preceding five years.
And the link http://www.business-standard.com/ar...mki-s-poor-serviceability-114102300006_1.html

 

[smestarz]

Where do you read it need to open it's radar to shoot? If Rafale is in chase, it use its radar, if it is in defense it leave the opponent use its own and thru Spectra fired missile on it.

Smaller range weapons? You speak about MICA? Just wiat 2 small years and Meteor will be there.

Vietnam? France never fought in vietnam. It was a US war and a US defeat.

Algeria? My dear you don't know history. France wins militarily speaking, but lost on political term : it was just humanly impossible to continue to leave the algerian people far away its destiny. As GB with india.

Lets assume a situatiom france ha a threat, Since its not the chase or being chased, does the Rafale use its radar or not? Apparently since this is supposed to be defensive stance as you say, it wont use its Radar. And if the enemy is not using its radar, it just goes through the screen of Rafales, so how does it become effective?

If an enemy has to attack france, it knows which areas / positions to hit, but then the defensive force does not know all the positions that are being hit as they do not really know accurately the objective of the attacking forces.

After 2 years will be 100 meteors that as you said France is buying for another customer. So now you are going to threaten with missiles that belong to someone else? Rented missiles?

French never fought in Vietnam? Now you really dont know abt French history or you either fell on your head (you surely not case for Zika) Let me educate you something

Post WW2, France wanted to enforce control over what it was then called French Indo China , this is what we now call Vietnam. Most of people in vietnam spoke Vietnamese and French The geography taught was about French geopgraphy.. Which country would use other countryls language which is few thousand miles away as a need?

Anyway, to fight the french oppressors (yes the french were the oppressors) and to kick them out of the country, there was one teacher who took the lead, his name Ho Chi Minh. He because the idol for struggle against France.. for this matter you can read Wiki

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Indochina

Also read this part in particular (the entire page is interesting)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First...efense_Assistance_Act_.281950.E2.80.931954.29

War in Vietnam which was againt the Vietnamese who wanted Freedom from the French who just a few years ago were champiioning the cause of Freedom and calling on the world for "LIBERTIE" so when the Germans overran Frane they are talking of liberty for the world, but after the war they do the exact same thing what a few years back they asked the world to fight against.

So it was actually France vs people of vietnam who wanted Freedom and ultimately since French were weak (and how many times in history do we see that?) and then again due to Mutual Defense Assistance Act (1950–1954) the Americans try to bail out France.

Also, read about Battle of Dien Bien Phu, what the hell were about 20000 french soldiers doing in Vietnam? Vacation??

The French and Americans were badly beaten at Dien Bien Phu,, some of the best French troops Foreing legion were the ones defeated https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Dien_Bien_Phu try reading it.

As usual in France you are only taught about the rosy things, if you know the bad part of france did, then maybe some might really jusfify what France is getting now.