India to select one or more fighter aircraft to be built by private sector

[ashdoc]

only thing that i could not understand is---300 km using external fuel tanks attached to the wings or without ??

 

[Harinath]

listen buddy . i went to the 'make in india' exhibition recently---just few days ago . there , besides a model of tejas aircraft were it's specifications . and the model and specifications were posted by HAL , for it was HAL's part of the exhibition . among the specifications was written tejas' combat radius---300 km .

now if HAL says the combat radius is 300km then you cant argue against it , can you....

with such a small range how are they going to use it, can you see any usage of Tejas with such a short range?

 

[Superdefender]

with such a small range how are they going to use it, can you see any usage of Tejas with such a short range?

Mk.1A will be 500kg lighter, so it will save fuel. Combat radius may increase to 500km. You have to consider it is light catagory. So do not compare it with medium fighters. How many light fighters are there beside it? Only Gripen and JF-17, isn't it? Compare with these.

 

[smestarz]

listen buddy . i went to the 'make in india' exhibition recently---just few days ago . there , besides a model of tejas aircraft were it's specifications . and the model and specifications were posted by HAL , for it was HAL's part of the exhibition . among the specifications was written tejas' combat radius---300 km .

now if HAL says the combat radius is 300km then you cant argue against it , can you....

Sure, I can argue, either you read 300 instead of 3000 else HAL mistakenly wrote 300 instead of 3000

These are the numbers which are widely accepted

Range: 3,000 km
Combat radius: 500 km[
Ferry range: 1,700 km[

So thats why am saying that tere was some error, no chance that IAF would accept a plane with just 300 kms range

 

[Superdefender]

Oh buddy, mk. 1 has 300km combat radius, not mk. 1A (which has 500km)! Mk. 1 had participated in BIAS, 2016.

 

[salute]

Oh buddy, mk. 1 has 300km combat radius, not mk. 1A (which has 500km)! Mk. 1 had participated in BIAS, 2016.

wiki page says lca mk.1 got combat radius of 500 kms.

 

[Superdefender]

@salute, read properly. It is written - Specification (HAL Tejas mk.1A)

 

[tsunami]

Combat radius depends on number of parameters ... Like Altitude, weapon load and speed.
When one says LCA Tejas combat radius is 300 Km only, then it must be fully in Low-Low-Low with full weapon load without having any external fuel tank (Even in this case it must be more then that). With 2 drop tank and High-High-High scenario with only A-to-A weapons combat radius will be near to 800-1000 Km.

 

[salute]

@salute, read properly. It is written - Specification (HAL Tejas mk.1A)

del.....................................................

 

[salute]

@salute, read properly. It is written - Specification (HAL Tejas mk.1A)

copied from wiki page,

Specifications (HAL Tejas Mk.1)

Weapon stations on Tejas

Tejas carrying Astra missile, R-73 missile and drop tank

Tejas weapon display Aero India 2011
Data from tejas.gov.in,[158] DRDO Techfocus,[159] Aero India 2011[160]

General characteristics

• Crew: 1
• Length: 13.20 m (43 ft 4 in)
• Wingspan: 8.20 m (26 ft 11 in)
• Height: 4.40 m (14 ft 9 in)
• Wing area: 38.4 m² (413 ft²)
• Empty weight: 6,560 kg (14,300 lb)
• Loaded weight: 9,500 kg[158] (20,944 lb)
• Max. takeoff weight: 13,200 kg[158] (29,100 lb)
• Powerplant: 1 × General Electric F404-GE-IN20 turbofan
  • Dry thrust: 53.9 kN[161] (12,100 lbf)
  • Thrust with afterburner: 89.8 kN (20,200 lbf[162])
• Internal fuel capacity: 2,458 kg
• External fuel capacity: 2 x 1,200-litre drop tank at inboard, 1 x 725-litre drop tank under fuselage

Performance

• Maximum speed: Mach 1.8[citation needed] (2,205 km/h) for FOC version;[163]Mach 1.6 (2,000 km/h) for IOC version;[164][165]
• Range: 3,000 km[163] (1,620 nmi, 1,864 mi)
• Combat radius: 500 km[166] (270 nmi, 311 mi)
• Ferry range: 1,700 km[166] (1,056 mi)
• Service ceiling: 15,240 m[158] (50,000 ft)
• Wing loading: 247 kg/m² (50.7 lb/ft²)
• Thrust/weight: 1.07[158]
• g-limits: +8/−3.5 g[167]

 

[BON PLAN]

That should actually be a learning advice for you, It means that INDIA CONSIDERS ISRAEL MORE RELIABLE SUPPLIER TO DELIVER THAN FRANCE. So if there is anything that Israel does not produce/offer, we shall source from other source. Radars, Missiles, Avionics etc etc. India selected ELTA for Tejas... we did not even think of going for Thales or selex product, Missiles, Derby and Python prefered over MICA.
BTW Tejas vs Mirage 2000 we already had that discussion, Tejas, better detection range than Mirage 2000, Tejas having long ranged R-77 misiles. so Mirage 2000 (any version) is inferior to Tejas. Seems no matter how much you explain the facts to French they are just indoctrinated to believe that everything French is the best. no matter how badly its over rated.

In Air to Air role, maybe. But we will have to wait (long) to see Tejas fully developped and operational.
In Air to Grund role.... Not see a cruise missile Under Tejas Wing. Just few guided and unguided bombs. But I haven't seen all photos of Tejas.
And what about maturity? Even after induction you will need to mature systems. Tejas will be ready when Mirage will be retired. So no comparaison possible. So sorry !

 

[BON PLAN]

That should actually be a learning advice for you, It means that INDIA CONSIDERS ISRAEL MORE RELIABLE SUPPLIER TO DELIVER THAN FRANCE. So if there is anything that Israel does not produce/offer, we shall source from other source. Radars, Missiles, Avionics etc etc. India selected ELTA for Tejas... we did not even think of going for Thales or selex product, Missiles, Derby and Python prefered over MICA.
BTW Tejas vs Mirage 2000 we already had that discussion, Tejas, better detection range than Mirage 2000, Tejas having long ranged R-77 misiles. so Mirage 2000 (any version) is inferior to Tejas. Seems no matter how much you explain the facts to French they are just indoctrinated to believe that everything French is the best. no matter how badly its over rated.

In Air to Air role, maybe. But we will have to wait (long) to see Tejas fully developped and operational.
In Air to Ground role.... Not see a cruise missile Under Tejas Wings. Just few guided and unguided bombs, some rockets. But I haven't seen all photos of Tejas.
And what about maturity? Even after induction you will need to mature systems. Tejas will be ready when Mirage will be retired. So no comparaison possible. So sorry !

 

[BON PLAN]

You are born stupid or you just happen to fall on your head? There is ToT for Mirage 2000, but then we already have flying Tejas, By the way, let me do remind you that HAL had taken advisers from Dassault, for ensuring that Tejas would be ready soon, Unfortunately it just turned out to be an expense, as the Dassault consultants were incompetent and could not help in any development. That should give you the level of liars and incompetent the Dassault consultants were. In Fact they made HAL believe that Rafale is not a threat to Tejas as they are in different "weight class" unfortunately HAL seems to have believed them. But Dassault is very much threatened by Tejas for two reasons.
A) Tejas inducted by IAF means no French plane will be purchased by india for at least next two decades.
B) Tejas will also be competing with Rafale in many of the markets where Rafale is trying and in fact Tejas due to virtue of its low cost, top of the line avionics and easy maintenance will be the choice.

All the Rafale fans can then talk about is the over rated SPECTRA and also how it was "proven" in Libya

Dassault engineers, a small compagny among beast like Lookeed, Boeing, Sukhoi.... are skilled enough, even if they are few (because small compagny, and they are french ! too handicaped...), to studied a top class fighter. So top that IAF, after a very strong field test, said it is the best with EF.
And India's team is not alone.... Switzerland make the same rank, but Rafale clearly first.

Not so bad for a small compagny, with few french stupid engineers.

 

[BON PLAN]

Kick the A$$ of dassault. We can go for f16 or F18 or Su35. They are very inexpensive yet potent plane. Me may consider Mig 35 as well.

And JF17. Very cheap and flying not so bad. Enough to replace 40/50 years old Mig 21.

 

[BON PLAN]

Rafale has its own advantage in small RCS and PESA radar. It is unique in many way. In some qualities, MKI leads while in some rafale leads. Rafle is no doubt a great plane like Mirage 2000 which is loved by air force after so many years. They are highly reliable and cost effective to operate. The EW suit of rafale (Spectra) is best in the world. If we buy rafale, they are for sure will give us the best service upto 2050. Here the question is at what cost? Can the money be spent better? We have to make a choice.

You forget PESA radar is not more produce. first serial AESA were delivered in 2012. In the force in 2013. ALl planes produced since are AESA equipped.

 

[BON PLAN]

listen buddy . i went to the 'make in india' exhibition recently---just few days ago . there , besides a model of tejas aircraft were it's specifications . and the model and specifications were posted by HAL , for it was HAL's part of the exhibition . among the specifications was written tejas' combat radius---300 km .

now if HAL says the combat radius is 300km then you cant argue against it , can you....

YES, He CAN !

My friend SMESTARZ argue on every thing. The important is to conclude Tejas ans K77 are the best products in the world. Even F22 and Meteor are BS.

 

[salute]

And JF17. Very cheap and flying not so bad. Enough to replace 40/50 years old Mig 21.

r u paki with disguise,

jf replacing mig 21 is bs,

its like replacing vietnam war era jet with first iraq war era jet.

 

[garg_bharat]

Sure, I can argue, either you read 300 instead of 3000 else HAL mistakenly wrote 300 instead of 3000

These are the numbers which are widely accepted

Range: 3,000 km
Combat radius: 500 km[
Ferry range: 1,700 km[

So thats why am saying that tere was some error, no chance that IAF would accept a plane with just 300 kms range

I think 1700km ferry range and 300km combat radius may be correct WITHOUT EXTERNAL FUEL.

This is the reason they are increasing internal fuel in Mark-2.

The combat radius increases to 500km with two external tanks.

 

[garg_bharat]

LCA Tejas is a replacement of Mig-21. It is a small point defence fighter. It cannot fulfil the roles of larger fighters.

Tejas is needed in near term to fill frontline squadrons which operated Mig-21 earlier and are now without aircraft due to retirement.

LCA Tejas is NOT a replacement of Rafale, and nobody should argue that.

However the purposes of Tejas and Rafale are different. So these two go in parallel.

 

[smestarz]

I think 1700km ferry range and 300km combat radius may be correct WITHOUT EXTERNAL FUEL.

This is the reason they are increasing internal fuel in Mark-2.

The combat radius increases to 500km with two external tanks.

What I had given was accepted data of 1A