India S-400 Acquisition - News Updates and Discussions

[tharun]

awesome video of destructive power of S 400 or S 300, Place seems like Syrian Desert

That's rocket motor failure....that's scary missile falling from air

 

[gadeshi]

There is a video of this incident that clearly shows all of this mess and destruction was caused not by rocket motor, but by stearing gas units only.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[Chinmoy]

The place is Ashuluk AD/BMD training ground near Astrakhan.
Old S-300PS missile booster failure.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

All shit aside, what is the thrust generated by the boosters of S-300 and 400?

 

[gadeshi]

All shit aside, what is the thrust generated by the boosters of S-300 and 400?

Donno for sure.
It's not an open info and of course strongly depends on missile version.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[Prashant12]

To speed up deliveries, Russia's S-400 air defence system may come without offset package

NEW DELHI: The defence ministry may forego the offset clause to speed up deliveries of a Russian air defence system designed to deter Pakistani fighters and provide a missile shield for major cities, said people with knowledge of the matter.

India and Russia will start final negotiations on the S 400 air defence system next month with the deal value pegged at Rs 39,000 crore. The offset clause, which fits in with the Make in India programme, mandates foreign companies to invest at least 30 per cent of the contract value in the Indian aerospace and defence sectors.

The S 400 is an advanced air defence system that has already been ordered by China, which is likely to get its first deliveries later this year. India and Russia began talks after the government accepted an air force proposal to purchase five firing units of the system to protect both the northern and eastern borders.

A top Russian official told ET that offsets could delay deliveries by as much as two years.

"As far as I have heard, there is no offset package for the programme. It is a strategic project and is very important for the two countries," said Viktor N Kladov, director of international cooperation at Rostec, the Russian state-owned company that controls sales of the S 400 system. "It should not be played around with some offset packages."

He said Russia would comply if India insisted on an offset package. But, he said, "It may delay delivery by one-two years and that is why a deal with no offsets package is the best choice."

According to analysts, the offset clause typically adds 10-15 per cent to the value of a contract on account of the domestic investment required. Also, the non-compliance rate is very high as companies find it difficult to discharge the offset within the rules.

Sources have told ET that while the defence ministry has approved the purchase of five firing units of the S 400 system for an estimated Rs.39,000 crore, two may be ordered in the initial phase. This could be increased based on performance, they said.

If the contract is signed within a year, deliveries could start by 2019-20.

"One year for the contract plus another two years for delivery. That will be the timeframe," Kladov said. "The Indian side invited us for negotiations in March. So, if we start negotiations in March, it will take another year to prepare for the contract. I do hope it will happen this year or maybe first half of next year."

China will likely get the system this year itself after signing up to be the first export customer. Designed to counter a variety of threats from hypersonic cruise missiles to unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), airborne early warning aircraft, stealth fighters and even precision-guided munitions, the S 400 is the latest in a range of air defence systems that have posed a formidable threat to western aircraft across the world.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...thout-offset-package/articleshow/57260971.cms

 

[IndianHawk]

To speed up deliveries, Russia's S-400 air defence system may come without offset package

NEW DELHI: The defence ministry may forego the offset clause to speed up deliveries of a Russian air defence system designed to deter Pakistani fighters and provide a missile shield for major cities, said people with knowledge of the matter.

India and Russia will start final negotiations on the S 400 air defence system next month with the deal value pegged at Rs 39,000 crore. The offset clause, which fits in with the Make in India programme, mandates foreign companies to invest at least 30 per cent of the contract value in the Indian aerospace and defence sectors.

The S 400 is an advanced air defence system that has already been ordered by China, which is likely to get its first deliveries later this year. India and Russia began talks after the government accepted an air force proposal to purchase five firing units of the system to protect both the northern and eastern borders.

A top Russian official told ET that offsets could delay deliveries by as much as two years.

"As far as I have heard, there is no offset package for the programme. It is a strategic project and is very important for the two countries," said Viktor N Kladov, director of international cooperation at Rostec, the Russian state-owned company that controls sales of the S 400 system. "It should not be played around with some offset packages."

He said Russia would comply if India insisted on an offset package. But, he said, "It may delay delivery by one-two years and that is why a deal with no offsets package is the best choice."

According to analysts, the offset clause typically adds 10-15 per cent to the value of a contract on account of the domestic investment required. Also, the non-compliance rate is very high as companies find it difficult to discharge the offset within the rules.

Sources have told ET that while the defence ministry has approved the purchase of five firing units of the S 400 system for an estimated Rs.39,000 crore, two may be ordered in the initial phase. This could be increased based on performance, they said.

If the contract is signed within a year, deliveries could start by 2019-20.

"One year for the contract plus another two years for delivery. That will be the timeframe," Kladov said. "The Indian side invited us for negotiations in March. So, if we start negotiations in March, it will take another year to prepare for the contract. I do hope it will happen this year or maybe first half of next year."

China will likely get the system this year itself after signing up to be the first export customer. Designed to counter a variety of threats from hypersonic cruise missiles to unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), airborne early warning aircraft, stealth fighters and even precision-guided munitions, the S 400 is the latest in a range of air defence systems that have posed a formidable threat to western aircraft across the world.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...thout-offset-package/articleshow/57260971.cms

Well unless we are going to attack pakistan what is the rush.????

 

[Mikesingh]

The S 400 is the latest in a range of air defence systems that have posed a formidable threat to western aircraft across the world.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...thout-offset-package/articleshow/57260971.cms

Nope! The latest is the S-500 which will enter service in Russia by the end of next year.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

To speed up deliveries, Russia's S-400 air defence system may come without offset package

NEW DELHI: The defence ministry may forego the offset clause to speed up deliveries of a Russian air defence system designed to deter Pakistani fighters and provide a missile shield for major cities, said people with knowledge of the matter.

India and Russia will start final negotiations on the S 400 air defence system next month with the deal value pegged at Rs 39,000 crore. The offset clause, which fits in with the Make in India programme, mandates foreign companies to invest at least 30 per cent of the contract value in the Indian aerospace and defence sectors.

The S 400 is an advanced air defence system that has already been ordered by China, which is likely to get its first deliveries later this year. India and Russia began talks after the government accepted an air force proposal to purchase five firing units of the system to protect both the northern and eastern borders.

A top Russian official told ET that offsets could delay deliveries by as much as two years.

"As far as I have heard, there is no offset package for the programme. It is a strategic project and is very important for the two countries," said Viktor N Kladov, director of international cooperation at Rostec, the Russian state-owned company that controls sales of the S 400 system. "It should not be played around with some offset packages."

He said Russia would comply if India insisted on an offset package. But, he said, "It may delay delivery by one-two years and that is why a deal with no offsets package is the best choice."

According to analysts, the offset clause typically adds 10-15 per cent to the value of a contract on account of the domestic investment required. Also, the non-compliance rate is very high as companies find it difficult to discharge the offset within the rules.

Sources have told ET that while the defence ministry has approved the purchase of five firing units of the S 400 system for an estimated Rs.39,000 crore, two may be ordered in the initial phase. This could be increased based on performance, they said.

If the contract is signed within a year, deliveries could start by 2019-20.

"One year for the contract plus another two years for delivery. That will be the timeframe," Kladov said. "The Indian side invited us for negotiations in March. So, if we start negotiations in March, it will take another year to prepare for the contract. I do hope it will happen this year or maybe first half of next year."

China will likely get the system this year itself after signing up to be the first export customer. Designed to counter a variety of threats from hypersonic cruise missiles to unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), airborne early warning aircraft, stealth fighters and even precision-guided munitions, the S 400 is the latest in a range of air defence systems that have posed a formidable threat to western aircraft across the world.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...thout-offset-package/articleshow/57260971.cms

Atleast it should come with make in India as planned to be produced with reliance defense.

 

[Trinetra]

Atleast it should come with make in India as planned to be produced with reliance defense.

Yes.. Production could come to India as reliance partnered for this system.. but the investment wont.. sometimes we have giveaway the money to get our security right.. Security is highest priprity..

 

[captscooby81]

As per the famous Quote goes "In the Longer run everyone is dead" i think we should fast process the defence purchases ASAP without the offset clause the delivery will take place only in 2020 if we go with the offset clause then it may go to 2022 or beyond which is like no good seeing the current scenario with Trump in the driving seat in USA a war with China is sooner than later to start and we better get our BMD to protect ourselves from any aggression .. War with pakistan is purely depends on how things in kashmir go from here after if things gets out of control then i don t think the govt will keep its hands tied and may launch a major offensive into POK ..

Well unless we are going to attack pakistan what is the rush.????

 

[mayfair]

Roosis upto their usual tricks to shaft us on yet another big ticket deal.

 

[IndianHawk]

current scenario with Trump in the driving seat in USA a war with China is sooner than later to start and we better get our BMD to protect ourselves from any aggression ..

If Trump and china go to war , Chinese would literally beg for India neutrality.
What aggression are you thinking about.
The prerogative of any aggression would lie with. If Chinese somehow engage both USA and India simultaneously they are toast!!

 

[captscooby81]

If i am not wrong i think we have signed Logistical support agreement with the USA . What if the american uses our forward bases in the North for Refuelling or for maintenance when they go on war with China .. wont the chinese be attacking our bases ???

If Trump and china go to war , Chinese would literally beg for India neutrality.
What aggression are you thinking about.
The prerogative of any aggression would lie with. If Chinese somehow engage both USA and India simultaneously they are toast!!

 

[IndianHawk]

If i am not wrong i think we have signed Logistical support agreement with the USA . What if the american uses our forward bases in the North for Refuelling or for maintenance when they go on war with China .. wont the chinese be attacking our bases ???

Nope . Chinese will have to suck that up .
They will whine and cry but won't fire a single bullet .
The best case scenario for chinese will be to somehow keep India out of the conflict . If they attack US base in India it would still count as an attack on Indian soil and India will be forced to retaliate. Thus china will be caught in two front war with USA and India. That stuff can wet Mao's pants:biggrin2:

 

[captscooby81]

And isn't that the main reason why china is hell bent on CPC so that we will have a two front war with the pakistan and the chinese when they wanted to attack us .. the Paki s will have to obey their masters like a Dog and start attacking our Western borders with Gwadar becoming on Nuclear sub Base we will have even more dangerous headaches this time than 1971 ...

Nope . Chinese will have to suck that up .
They will whine and cry but won't fire a single bullet .
The best case scenario for chinese will be to somehow keep India out of the conflict . If they attack US base in India it would still count as an attack on Indian soil and India will be forced to retaliate. Thus china will be caught in two front war with USA and India. That stuff can wet Mao's pants:biggrin2:

 

[lcafanboy]

INDIA TO BUY 12 RUSSIAN ADVANCED S-400 AIR DEFENSE SYSTEM: SOURCES
SUNDAY, JUNE 11, 2017 BYINDIANDEFENSE NEWS

Sources reported that India has decided to buy 12 units of Russia's advanced S-400 ADS instead of the earlier proposal to acquire only 5 such units
Rakesh Krishnan Simha wrote in RIR, "The year is 2020. A posse of F-16 jet fighters takes off from the main Pakistan Air Force (PAF) base in Sargodha. Approximately 300 km east, at the Adampur air force base, an Indian S-400 air defence system picks up these aircraft almost instantly. The radar lock unnerves the F-16 pilots and they peel further west – away from the battery’s range."
While taking evasive action the PAF jets have to be careful not to stray into Afghanistan – which is increasingly hostile towards Islamabad – or Iran. The Pakistani pilots, however, realise trespass is the least of their problems. As the F-16s arrive over Baluchistan – the furthest they can get away from the Indian border – they are tracked by another S-400 battery stationed near the Jodhpur air force base 527 km away.

The S-400 systems are routinely scanning the airspace around them in a 360 degree sweep, but the PAF pilots are on the verge of panic. Between the overlapping coverage by India’s multiple S-400 battalions stationed along the border, PAF aircraft can run but not hide. This is the fishbowl effect – the feeling of being observed from all sides.
The most devastating impact of India acquiring the S-400 Triumf will be on the Pakistani military’s psyche. With its 600 km tracking range – and a 400 km kill range – the Russian air defence system will increase the vulnerability of all Pakistani air assets, especially fighter aircraft, missiles and drones, by several orders of magnitude.
Their 600 km tracking range – and a 400 km kill range – will allow just three S-400 battalions located on the border to cover all of Pakistan, except the western extremity of its restive Baluchistan province. With Afghanistan turning hostile and upending Pakistan’s grandiose plans of acquiring strategic depth, the arrival of the S-400 will squeeze the operational capabilities of both its offensive and defensive assets.
Because of its blistering speed of 17,000 kph, an S-400 missile fired from Adampur, Punjab, will take just 65 seconds to hit an F-16 flying over Sargodha. Ejection – rather than evasive action – would be the sensible option against a missile coming at you at that speed.
The S-400’s deployment will widen the window of vulnerability of Pakistan’s air force, army and strategic missile forces.

• First up, PAF jets will be forced to operate hundreds of kilometres west of the Indian border and will have to fly in a narrow strip of airspace along the borders of Iran and Afghanistan.

• Secondly, they will not be able to come to the defence of their armour and troop concentrations which would be taking a pounding from Indian artillery and the Indian Air Force (IAF).

• The system can even function as a ballistic missile killer until India’s indigenous Prithvi Air Defence (PAD) comes online in the coming decade.

Old & Trusted Ally
Since the Soviet era, Russia and India have enjoyed mutually beneficial strategic relations, especially in the field of defense and military cooperation.
In 2014, the total value of weapons and military hardware delivered by Russia to India reached $4.7 billion, according to Russian Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation estimates.
The S-400 Triumph is an air defense missile system, which integrates a multi-function radar, autonomous detection and targeting systems, anti-aircraft missile systems, launchers, and command and control center. It is capable of firing different three types of missiles capable of destroying aerial targets at short-to-extremely long range.
Delivery Timeline
Russia could begin shipping the S-400 ‘Triumf’ anti- aircraft missile defence systems to India in 2020, Sergey Chemezov, head of the state corporation Rostec informed reporters attending the BRICS summit in Goa.
He was briefing reporters after the 17th India-Russia summit between President Vladimir Putin and Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi saw a slew of agreements being signed, including one on India’s purchase of advanced S-400 air defence systems.
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2017/06/india-to-buy-12-russian-advanced-s-400.html

@IndianHawk @Willy2 @roma @Krusty @Defcon 1 @Ghanteshwar @raheel besharam @raja696 @Amr @AnkitPurohit @Akshay_Fenix @aditya10r @airtel @aditya10r @ancientIndian @Bahamut @Berkut @Bornubus @Bengal_Tiger @ersakthivel @FRYCRY @Gessler @HariSud @hit&run @hardip @indiandefencefan @IndianHawk @JayPatel @Kshatriya87 @LETHALFORCE @Mikesingh @NavneetKundu @OneGrimPilgrim @pmaitra @PaliwalWarrior @Pulkit @smestarz @SakalGhareluUstad @Srinivas_K @ShashankSharma @Superdefender @Screambowl @TacticalFrog

 

[pmaitra]

If i am not wrong i think we have signed Logistical support agreement with the USA . What if the american uses our forward bases in the North for Refuelling or for maintenance when they go on war with China .. wont the chinese be attacking our bases ???

Most certainly yes.

If the US uses Indian infrastructure to attack PRC, India would be a belligerent and PRC would have the legal right to attack India. The line is blurred. If Indian infrastructure is used to treat wounded US servicemen, then India would not be a belligerent.

As long as US does not enter PRC's territory from India, India could technically remain neutral.

Rights and responsibilities of a neutral power

Belligerents may not invade neutral territory,[3] and a neutral power's resisting any such attempt does not compromise its neutrality.[4]

A neutral power must intern belligerent troops who reach its territory,[5] but not escaped prisoners of war.[6] Belligerent armies may not recruit neutral citizens,[7] but they may go abroad to enlist.[8] Belligerent armies' personnel and material may not be transported across neutral territory,[9] but the wounded may be.[10] A neutral power may supply communication facilities to belligerents,[11] but not war material,[12] although it need not prevent export of such material.[13]

Belligerent naval vessels may use neutral ports for a maximum of 24 hours, though neutrals may impose different restrictions.[14] Exceptions are to make repairs—only the minimum necessary to put back to sea[15]—or if an opposing belligerent's vessel is already in port, in which case it must have a 24-hour head start.[16] A prize ship captured by a belligerent in the territorial waters of a neutral power must be surrendered by the belligerent to the neutral, which must intern its crew.[17]

 

[Adioz]

Most certainly yes.

If the US uses Indian infrastructure to attack PRC, India would be a belligerent and PRC would have the legal right to attack India. The line is blurred. If Indian infrastructure is used to treat wounded US servicemen, then India would not be a belligerent.

As long as US does not enter PRC's territory from India, India could technically remain neutral.

Rights and responsibilities of a neutral power

Food for thought: What happens if PRC and India got to war, and PRC decides to hit India by first entering Myanmar and then flanking us on the Eastern border. Myanmar is not likely to resist, but its not like it has to. It can simply play the victim card given how vast the gap in power between the forces of PRC and Myanmar is.

The only saving grace we have in this scenario is that the lack of infrastructure (in Myanmar) will impede the movement of a mechanized column of the PRC.

 

[Chinmoy]

INDIA TO BUY 12 RUSSIAN ADVANCED S-400 AIR DEFENSE SYSTEM: SOURCES
SUNDAY, JUNE 11, 2017 BYINDIANDEFENSE NEWS

Sources reported that India has decided to buy 12 units of Russia's advanced S-400 ADS instead of the earlier proposal to acquire only 5 such units
Rakesh Krishnan Simha wrote in RIR, "The year is 2020. A posse of F-16 jet fighters takes off from the main Pakistan Air Force (PAF) base in Sargodha. Approximately 300 km east, at the Adampur air force base, an Indian S-400 air defence system picks up these aircraft almost instantly. The radar lock unnerves the F-16 pilots and they peel further west – away from the battery’s range."
While taking evasive action the PAF jets have to be careful not to stray into Afghanistan – which is increasingly hostile towards Islamabad – or Iran. The Pakistani pilots, however, realise trespass is the least of their problems. As the F-16s arrive over Baluchistan – the furthest they can get away from the Indian border – they are tracked by another S-400 battery stationed near the Jodhpur air force base 527 km away.

The S-400 systems are routinely scanning the airspace around them in a 360 degree sweep, but the PAF pilots are on the verge of panic. Between the overlapping coverage by India’s multiple S-400 battalions stationed along the border, PAF aircraft can run but not hide. This is the fishbowl effect – the feeling of being observed from all sides.
The most devastating impact of India acquiring the S-400 Triumf will be on the Pakistani military’s psyche. With its 600 km tracking range – and a 400 km kill range – the Russian air defence system will increase the vulnerability of all Pakistani air assets, especially fighter aircraft, missiles and drones, by several orders of magnitude.
Their 600 km tracking range – and a 400 km kill range – will allow just three S-400 battalions located on the border to cover all of Pakistan, except the western extremity of its restive Baluchistan province. With Afghanistan turning hostile and upending Pakistan’s grandiose plans of acquiring strategic depth, the arrival of the S-400 will squeeze the operational capabilities of both its offensive and defensive assets.
Because of its blistering speed of 17,000 kph, an S-400 missile fired from Adampur, Punjab, will take just 65 seconds to hit an F-16 flying over Sargodha. Ejection – rather than evasive action – would be the sensible option against a missile coming at you at that speed.
The S-400’s deployment will widen the window of vulnerability of Pakistan’s air force, army and strategic missile forces.

• First up, PAF jets will be forced to operate hundreds of kilometres west of the Indian border and will have to fly in a narrow strip of airspace along the borders of Iran and Afghanistan.

• Secondly, they will not be able to come to the defence of their armour and troop concentrations which would be taking a pounding from Indian artillery and the Indian Air Force (IAF).

• The system can even function as a ballistic missile killer until India’s indigenous Prithvi Air Defence (PAD) comes online in the coming decade.

Old & Trusted Ally
Since the Soviet era, Russia and India have enjoyed mutually beneficial strategic relations, especially in the field of defense and military cooperation.
In 2014, the total value of weapons and military hardware delivered by Russia to India reached $4.7 billion, according to Russian Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation estimates.
The S-400 Triumph is an air defense missile system, which integrates a multi-function radar, autonomous detection and targeting systems, anti-aircraft missile systems, launchers, and command and control center. It is capable of firing different three types of missiles capable of destroying aerial targets at short-to-extremely long range.
Delivery Timeline
Russia could begin shipping the S-400 ‘Triumf’ anti- aircraft missile defence systems to India in 2020, Sergey Chemezov, head of the state corporation Rostec informed reporters attending the BRICS summit in Goa.
He was briefing reporters after the 17th India-Russia summit between President Vladimir Putin and Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi saw a slew of agreements being signed, including one on India’s purchase of advanced S-400 air defence systems.
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2017/06/india-to-buy-12-russian-advanced-s-400.html

@IndianHawk @Willy2 @roma @Krusty @Defcon 1 @Ghanteshwar @raheel besharam @raja696 @Amr @AnkitPurohit @Akshay_Fenix @aditya10r @airtel @aditya10r @ancientIndian @Bahamut @Berkut @Bornubus @Bengal_Tiger @ersakthivel @FRYCRY @Gessler @HariSud @hit&run @hardip @indiandefencefan @IndianHawk @JayPatel @Kshatriya87 @LETHALFORCE @Mikesingh @NavneetKundu @OneGrimPilgrim @pmaitra @PaliwalWarrior @Pulkit @smestarz @SakalGhareluUstad @Srinivas_K @ShashankSharma @Superdefender @Screambowl @TacticalFrog

Number had gone from 5 to 12?
Lets wait till the deal is signed....

 

[aditya10r]

Most certainly yes.

If the US uses Indian infrastructure to attack PRC, India would be a belligerent and PRC would have the legal right to attack India. The line is blurred. If Indian infrastructure is used to treat wounded US servicemen, then India would not be a belligerent.

As long as US does not enter PRC's territory from India, India could technically remain neutral.

Rights and responsibilities of a neutral power

Their is a clause that in case of war,this pact will go to trash

=================================

Food for thought: What happens if PRC and India got to war, and PRC decides to hit India by first entering Myanmar and then flanking us on the Eastern border. Myanmar is not likely to resist, but its not like it has to. It can simply play the victim card given how vast the gap in power between the forces of PRC and Myanmar is.

The only saving grace we have in this scenario is that the lack of infrastructure will impede the movement of a mechanized column of the PRC.

Chinese wont get in any conflict for some 10-15 years,good enough for us to beef up our defensive as well as offensive capabilities..

======================================