India Pakistan conflict along IB and LoC (July 2021 onwards)

mcpo117

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Perhaps we may see a more far more alt right in far away in future....previously congress was a central figure and bjp was seen as far right....now congress, a left loonie party and bjp trying to become "Gandu piEce" party.....we need another agency like Internal CIA. Since R&AW is not allowed to operate internally and our forces suffered massively in insurgent areas whether in NEIndia or Chattisgarh Maoists or JK. Its high time we raise a Grey Area Activities Internal CIA equivalent.
I thought IB was the greys.
 

ezsasa

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Perhaps we may see a more far more alt right in far away in future....previously congress was a central figure and bjp was seen as far right....now congress, a left loonie party and bjp trying to become "Gandu piEce" party.....we need another agency like Internal CIA. Since R&AW is not allowed to operate internally and our forces suffered massively in insurgent areas whether in NEIndia or Chattisgarh Maoists or JK. Its high time we raise a Grey Area Activities Internal CIA equivalent.
systems are already in place for decades, but you will have to lower your expectations of drama. it's done silently, methodically and within constitutional framework. and this is "political party in power" agnostic.

Positive watershed moment in N-E as calm reigns & Army withdraws from counter-insurgence
 

samsaptaka

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OGWs are becoming a problem need to solve this issue too many ambushes
Not going to happen unless GoI recognises that this is indeed a relegion based problem which is dictated by al kitab, and takes punitive action on the local ppl supporting such Yahoo's as well as their families. Op Sadbhavna should be suspended. It's not the job of the IA to run schools & hospitals all the while when local sullahs keep killing our own. Absolutely ridiculous policy of only thinking that poor economic conditions lead to ppl taking up terror. When will we learn ? :facepalm:
 

daya

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Not going to happen unless GoI recognises that this is indeed a relegion based problem which is dictated by al kitab, and takes punitive action on the local ppl supporting such Yahoo's as well as their families. Op Sadbhavna should be suspended. It's not the job of the IA to run schools & hospitals all the while when local sullahs keep killing our own. Absolutely ridiculous policy of only thinking that poor economic conditions lead to ppl taking up terror. When will we learn ? :facepalm:
That hard disk to be formatted, which is full of viruses. No-one dare to do that. There is no relation between poor economic conditions and terrorism. Poore bharat me garib hain, koi bomb-gola lekar nahi kood padta..
 

ezsasa

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Not going to happen unless GoI recognises that this is indeed a relegion based problem which is dictated by al kitab, and takes punitive action on the local ppl supporting such Yahoo's as well as their families. Op Sadbhavna should be suspended. It's not the job of the IA to run schools & hospitals all the while when local sullahs keep killing our own. Absolutely ridiculous policy of only thinking that poor economic conditions lead to ppl taking up terror. When will we learn ? :facepalm:
individual opinions aside.

Operation Sadbhavna started in 1998, data says it correlates with decline in terror incidents. data also will correlate with other factors like economic growth, economic integration, maturity in SOPs in the region, external factors, diplomacy with U.S, increase in terror attacks within pakiland etc.

we may have own opinions on op sadbhavna, but since military leadership have continued to invest in this, we have to presume their assessment is that it is yielding results. not just J&K it happens in other regions as well including maoist areas before civilian administration gets their bearing right, initial wave of infra/assistance to locals comes thru as aid by security personnel. since army has bigger budgets and direct line with centre than police so they are able to do more.

by the way, i too have an issue with it, but i have decided to look at the big picture.

1709709304001.png



recently came across literature on missing tile syndrome, in case this helps.

The Missing Tile Syndrome
 
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Kumaoni

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individual opinions aside.

Operation Sadbhavna started in 1998, data says it correlates with decline in terror incidents. data also will correlate with other factors like economic growth, economic integration, maturity in SOPs in the region, external factors, diplomacy with U.S, increase in terror attacks within pakiland etc.

we may have own opinions on op sadbhavna, but since military leadership have continued to invest in this, we have to presume their assessment is that it is yielding results. not just J&K it happens in other regions as well including maoist areas before civilian administration gets their bearing right, initial wave of infra/assistance to locals comes thru as aid by security personnel. since army has bigger budgets and direct line with centre than police so they are able to do more.

by the way, i too have an issue with it, but i have decided to look at the big picture.

View attachment 243003


recently came across literature on missing tile syndrome, in case this helps.

The Missing Tile Syndrome
Not really. Data coincides with the fact that the decline in terror started due to Operation Sarp Vinash in 2003 and the fencing of the LoC in 2003-2004. The bloodiest year in the insurgency was 2001 which was three years after the humanitarian operation.
It’s not the indian army’s job to run schools.
 

ezsasa

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Not really. Data coincides with the fact that the decline in terror started due to Operation Sarp Vinash in 2003 and the fencing of the LoC in 2003-2004. The bloodiest year in the insurgency was 2001 which was three years after the humanitarian operation.
It’s not the indian army’s job to run schools.
point being, we complain about gormint working in silos, and yet analysis is being done in silos.

from military purist’s perspective army shouldn’t be running schools and aid programs in insurgent areas, but military purist’s perspective is not the only perspective that is in operation on the field out there. it's the Indian state that is doing what it thinks is required to run it's writ in a particular geography.

by the same logic, military purists should have a problem with army building roads and doing road repairs. they get into building roads because leadership decided that it is required to accomplish their mission.

even invading forces like muricans take up social development programmes during conflict in foreign lands, why should Indian army not take up such tasks for our own people.
 

Azaad

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individual opinions aside.

Operation Sadbhavna started in 1998, data says it correlates with decline in terror incidents. data also will correlate with other factors like economic growth, economic integration, maturity in SOPs in the region, external factors, diplomacy with U.S, increase in terror attacks within pakiland etc.

we may have own opinions on op sadbhavna, but since military leadership have continued to invest in this, we have to presume their assessment is that it is yielding results. not just J&K it happens in other regions as well including maoist areas before civilian administration gets their bearing right, initial wave of infra/assistance to locals comes thru as aid by security personnel. since army has bigger budgets and direct line with centre than police so they are able to do more.

by the way, i too have an issue with it, but i have decided to look at the big picture.

View attachment 243003


recently came across literature on missing tile syndrome, in case this helps.

The Missing Tile Syndrome
IA & other security managers of the Indian deep state made a deep study of the Malaya insurgency which till date remains the only major insurgency movement to be defeated.

It sought to avoid the excesses of it while emphasising rehabilitation & the healing touch . There are significant differences between the Malaya insurgency & what we faced in Punjab or Kashmir or even WB earlier & the Maoists in Central & Eastern India later, the NE being an exception in this regard , coz the Malaya insurgency was primarily the handiwork of the Chinese community there - an ethnic minority albeit a large one there who received moral diplomatic & military support from CCP China .

 

ezsasa

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IA & other security managers of the Indian deep state made a deep study of the Malaya insurgency which till date remains the only major insurgency movement to be defeated.

It sought to avoid the excesses of it while emphasising rehabilitation & the healing touch . There are significant differences between the Malaya insurgency & what we faced in Punjab or Kashmir or even WB earlier & the Maoists in Central & Eastern India later, the NE being an exception in this regard , coz the Malaya insurgency was primarily the handiwork of the Chinese community there - an ethnic minority albeit a large one there who received moral diplomatic & military support from CCP China .

some reading material on this...

Indian Army’s Counter-Insurgency Operations in J&K

Read more at:

LESSONS FROM INDIA’S COUNTERINSURGENCY CAMPAIGN IN JAMMU AND KASHMIR
-United States Army Command and General Staff College

 

Azaad

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Not really. Data coincides with the fact that the decline in terror started due to Operation Sarp Vinash in 2003 and the fencing of the LoC in 2003-2004. The bloodiest year in the insurgency was 2001 which was three years after the humanitarian operation.
It’s not the indian army’s job to run schools.
Do you actually indulge in analysis before making posts like these for there times when it seems you do & others like these , which seems more frequent nowadays , when it seems more like a knee jerk reaction aka getting your knickers into an all too familiar twist .

Weren't you aware of the ceasefire across the LoC negotiated between Indian & Pak interlocutors with the US mediating as a way out of the logjam arising from our mobilization during Operation Parakram as a result of the LeT attack on parliament which , by & large , held as long as Musharraf was in power ?
 

Kumaoni

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Weren't you aware of the ceasefire across the LoC negotiated between Indian & Pak interlocutors with the US mediating as a way out of the logjam arising from our mobilization during Operation Parakram as a result of the LeT attack on parliament which , by & large , held as long as Musharraf was in power ?
1. Operation Parakram is independent and has no causation with the Ceaafire of 2003. Operation Parakaram itself was inconsequential as militant violence continued and preserved for little over 2 years after the initial conflict.

2. Throughout 2002 and 2003, there were brutal and bloody clashes between indian and Pak forces, and Indian artillery almost entirely pulverized the entire Neelam Valley. Not to mention, frequent raids by indian soldiers, pakis being outgunned and being unable to counter superior indian arty, and more importantly their failure to protect the Neelum Valley since 1998 which was pulverized constantly by Indian artillery (according to @Bornubus) all led to them declaring a ceasefire under the guise of ramadan in November of 2003. Before that, there was no talks of ceasefire. Only brutal artillery and border clashes. Paks declared a ceasefire and within one week India accepted.
Do you actually indulge in analysis before making posts like these for there times when it seems you do & others like these , which seems more frequent nowadays , when it seems more like a knee jerk reaction aka getting your knickers into an all too familiar twist .
Yes, I have done extensive research on this topic.
 

Azaad

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1. Operation Parakram is independent and has no causation with the Ceaafire of 2003. Operation Parakaram itself was inconsequential as militant violence continued and preserved for little over 2 years after the initial conflict.


2. Throughout 2002 and 2003, there were brutal and bloody clashes between indian and Pak forces, and Indian artillery almost entirely pulverized the entire Neelam Valley. Not to mention, frequent raids by indian soldiers, pakis being outgunned and being unable to counter superior indian arty, and more importantly their failure to protect the Neelum Valley since 1998 which was pulverized constantly by Indian artillery (according to @Bornubus) all led to them declaring a ceasefire under the guise of ramadan in November of 2003. Before that, there was no talks of ceasefire. Only brutal artillery and border clashes. Paks declared a ceasefire and within one week India accepted.

Yes, I have done extensive research on this topic.
Operation Parakram, 9/11 & it's aftermath, US's WoT with the need for PA to single mindedly partner US in its attempts to exterminate AQ & cut off support in the tribal areas without being distracted by its Kashmir agenda, pressure from the US & India, conditional US aid, IA's sharp retaliation & escalation, Paxtan's deteriorating economy, etc all played their parts in Musharraf proposing the CF.

Then your extensive research doesn't show up in your posts. Only your pet peeves & biases do.
 

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