India opens bids in $10.4-bn combat plane tender.

[arya]

why not they are declaring rafale is wining

guys it will good as soon as possible we declare and induct them

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Nice, this basically means the Rafale Won?

Cant say for sure, but its place is strong in IAF view..

 

[sukhish]

I don't think rafale is going to win this. this is the confirmation that rafale is infact not going to win.

 

[ashdoc]

I don't think rafale is going to win this. this is the confirmation that rafale is infact not going to win.

the suspense is killing me

 

[Nagraj]

lol the drama continues

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

i think this mmrca should be cancelled and 5-6 squadrons of upgraded su-30 may be bougt from russia.

 

[arundo]

I don't think rafale is going to win this. this is the confirmation that rafale is infact not going to win.

How this?
It means, that there will be some potential synergies for IAF and that India will be in a good position to negotiate further missile purchases. larger quantities mean better prices and less costs in terms of logistics etc.

 

[p2prada]

Prada,

The F-16XL had advantages like enhanced kinematics and arguably lower operating costs but you can't necessarily say that the F-15E lost to it. The XL would have required significant research and development given its newer cranked-delta configuration compared to the lower risk Strike Eagle. Additionally, the Eagle had better range/payload capability with its bigger conformal fuel tank capability (more than 800 gallons each); the XL was not exactly suited for carrying a number of heavy munitions like the GBU-28 or even GBU-15 without compromising fuel load. And of course the F-15E's twin engines would have been a factor given the risk of battle damage in the strike role.

Afterall this was a replacement for the F-111, not a hot-rod fighter.

The F-16XL had both higher endurance(twice on internal fuel) and more hardpoints(27) as compared to the F-15E. Like the I said the E was chosen only to keep the production line running. It had clearly lost the ETF only because USAF wanted the F-15 to remain in production.

F-16XL carrying a full complement: 2 wingtip AIM-9 Sidewinders, two underwing 370 gal tanks, 10 Mk.82 (5 lbs) on underwing stations, 2 on the centerline, and 4 semi-recessed Amraams [Photo by Erwin Boone]

This is from f-16.net.

The only advantage F-15 had was the two engines or else the development time and money shouldn't have been a problem for Lockheed.

 

[p2prada]

@ p2prada
so why do you think that India should go for Rafale, but it is more likely that they will chose Typhoon? What are, according to you, the decisive points in the case of India - are they just checking figures with the main focus on overall costs now or will strategic considerations (which should be pro EF) make the difference?

If you had asked this question in 2007-08 I would have told you only Rafale had a chance. The technology on Rafale is more mature than on the EF. However EF has an equal chance today as they have been able to catch up quite a bit over the years. Rafale remains my primary choice because India is comfortable dealing with France. We won't have hiccups later and a lot of the technology is already developed. We don't have a highly capable strike fighter apart from the MKI. Rafale fits the bill. The SH is too old, but it would have been my second choice for strike after Rafale.

Rafale's UAE bid was fine. We are paying more than UAE for the M88-3 core that will go in Kaveri. More importantly, UAE was asked to pay $2Billion(supposedly) extra for a platform that even France does not own yet. UAE paid for F-16 Block 60 and are regretting the fact that nobody is interested in it. So, they don't want to go for the French platform and end up paying for it's development like they did on the Block 60 and not earning anything through Royalties. Dassault cannot push R&D costs on India for the same and neither can EADS. Joint development on future technology is a possibility, for MLUs.

There is no guarantee the M88-3 will be used on the IAF Rafale rather than the M88-4E which is less advanced. But such a move will allow commonality with Rafale and LCA.

I don't care about costs as both aircraft will be similar. It is not like Gripen, F-16 and Mig-35 are in contention. The biggest potential reason for EF to win is by taking strategic interests into consideration. France is one country, UK and Germany are two. Both UK and Germany have more political power in Europe than France does.

 

[p2prada]

How this?
It means, that there will be some potential synergies for IAF and that India will be in a good position to negotiate further missile purchases. larger quantities mean better prices and less costs in terms of logistics etc.

We paid a similar amount for GE F414 engines instead of choosing the EJ-200 and then kicked SH out of the competition. Other deals happening in India has nothing to do with the MRCA deal.

The MICA announcement is old,
domain-b.com : Rs5000 crore IAF contract for missiles, trainer jets in final stageCheck the date.

The Mirage upgrade cannot be related.

 

[Immanuel]

damn but 1.8 billion for 500 missiles that's 3.6 million per missile. I think this MICA purchase is terrible waste of cash, they should have simply ordered the Derby/ Python-5 combo just like for LCA MK-1 for a far lower price. Such high weapons prices would certainly be a set back for french weapons pack on the Raffy. Derby is being ordered for the LCA, theere is no reason why it can't be integrated on Lirages as well. Sad.

 

[Yawn]

The F-16XL had both higher endurance(twice on internal fuel) and more hardpoints(27) as compared to the F-15E. Like the I said the E was chosen only to keep the production line running. It had clearly lost the ETF only because USAF wanted the F-15 to remain in production.

F-16XL carrying a full complement: 2 wingtip AIM-9 Sidewinders, two underwing 370 gal tanks, 10 Mk.82 (5 lbs) on underwing stations, 2 on the centerline, and 4 semi-recessed Amraams [Photo by Erwin Boone]

This is from f-16.net.

The only advantage F-15 had was the two engines or else the development time and money shouldn't have been a problem for Lockheed.

Again look at the layout of the XL and ask yourself how many 'heavy' munitions it can deploy-it is given in the F-16.net article. You would lose fuel capacity if you decided to deploy 2,000 lb bombs and you would never be able to deploy the 5,000 lb GBU-28. Number of hardpoints is not as relevant as layout-it's the same problem with the Eurofighter Typhoon. As I said earlier, the F-15E came closest to the F-111 in its role as a tactical strike aircraft. The only folks who talk about politics are those who designed and lobbied for the XL.

 

[Yawn]

damn but 1.8 billion for 500 missiles that's 3.6 million per missile. I think this MICA purchase is terrible waste of cash, they should have simply ordered the Derby/ Python-5 combo just like for LCA MK-1 for a far lower price. Such high weapons prices would certainly be a set back for french weapons pack on the Raffy. Derby is being ordered for the LCA, theere is no reason why it can't be integrated on Lirages as well. Sad.

Immanuel, agreed it is a high priced deal. But it would essentially have been the same if we had opted for any MMRCA contender other than the Mig-35 (which can use existing stocks). You would have had to buy American systems for the two teen series jets and European systems for the others. At least with the Rafale and upgraded Mirage-2000s, there is a degree of cross-subsidization and streamlining of logistics. If the Rafale is chosen, it would share a common weapons train with the Mirage while the Jaguar and LCA would likely use similar (short-range) systems.

 

[noob101]

Immanuel, agreed it is a high priced deal. But it would essentially have been the same if we had opted for any MMRCA contender other than the Mig-35 (which can use existing stocks). You would have had to buy American systems for the two teen series jets and European systems for the others. At least with the Rafale and upgraded Mirage-2000s, there is a degree of cross-subsidization and streamlining of logistics. If the Rafale is chosen, it would share a common weapons train with the Mirage while the Jaguar and LCA would likely use similar (short-range) systems.

You are right it is a high price deal but really there is no alternative, a cost analysis was made by the pentagon into aircraft cost effect on AC numbers into the future and it concluded that with current trend of increasing AC prices and decreasing budget the USAF will be able to afford only one aircraft by the year 2050. So the McNameria idea was tried , if all the forces operating the same kind of fighter it would save the US government a lot of money. This was the idea behind the JSF program which is ironic because the idea of a cost effective aircraft turned into a nightmare budget wise. And also the smaller services are the ones to loose the most like the marines that right now dont have any alternative.

 

[SpArK]

Landing a Rafale an aircraft carrier. At night. A video shows why a night trap is the scariest and most demanding kind of flying


This French Navy Rafale's HUD (Head Up Display) video gives a hint. Barely visible at the beginning of the footage (a very little light) is the (pitching) deck, filled with planes, people and an "island".

 

[JAISWAL]

Negotiations with Saudi for 48 Eurofighters hit road block : BAE

not related to Indian MMRCA but with Euro-fighter.
.
Negotiations with Saudi for 48 Eurofighters hit road block : BAE | idrw.org
++

.
.
In a stock market announcement, BAE said it had
yet to agree with the Kingdom how much extra it
will have to pay for changes to the contract for
the next 48 Eurofighter Typhoon aircraft.
This means that the extra payment – described
by BAE as a "significant cash payment" and
estimated by UBS analysts to be around £500m –
will be deferred until negotiations have been
concluded.
The warning from BAE spooked the stock market
and sent shares in the company down 3pc to
286.6p.
BAE said its guidance that underlying earnings per
share in 2011 would be similar to 2010 had
"included some dependency on the conclusion of
the Salam [the Typhoon acquisition]
negotiations".
The changes to the £20bn contract, agreed in
2007, relate to the final assembly of the last 48 of
the 72 aircraft, the creation of a maintenance
facility in Saudi Arabia, and the upgrade of 24
aircraft already delivered
Despite the setback, BAE said the talks had made
"good progress". It also said the financial impact
of the delay to its 2011 results will be largely
mitigated by a deal this week to sell three Ocean
Patrol Vessels to Brazil for £133m. The value of
the ships was written down by £100m in 2010
after Trinidad and Tobago cancelled an order.
However, the carrying value of the ships will now
be increased.
UBS analysts said BAE could also secure a new
£1.5bn deal with Saudi to sell Hawk aircraft and
that meeting 2011 forecasts despite the Typhoon
delay would show "the robustness of the
business".

 

[weg]

India will procure 500 air-to-air missiles from French firm MBDA for IAF's Mirage 2000

MBDA are 37.5% owned by EADS, the rest is owned by British and Italian companies.

EADS is 22.5% owned by a French company, much of the rest owned by Spain and German companies.

MBDA are headquarters in Paris.

 

[arundo]

EADS is 30% French owned (each 15% Lagardère and French state).
30% German owned (Daimler AG)
5,5% Italian (SEPI)
34,5% belong to a dispersed number of shareholders

 

[Armand2REP]

MBDA is just a holding company. Each nation is responsible for hocking and making its own wares. MICA is a product of MBDA France.

 

[arundo]

MBDA is just a holding company. Each nation is responsible for hocking and making its own wares. MICA is a product of MBDA France.

In fact it is a product developed & launched by former Matra company, today a part of MBDA. MICA = Missile d'Interception, de Combat et d'Autodéfense.