India-China Relations

Ashutosh Lokhande

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Guyz hold you horses. taliban in no position to take over PN coz they have to beat the army before doing so. which is impossible.

the thing about indo-china is unless the border issue is resolved no genuine progress can be made. aksai chin and AP claims will keep croping up hindering the relationship to flourish.
 

Virendra

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Guyz hold you horses. taliban in no position to take over PN coz they have to beat the army before doing so. which is impossible.

the thing about indo-china is unless the border issue is resolved no genuine progress can be made. aksai chin and AP claims will keep croping up hindering the relationship to flourish.
Taliban does not have to fight & tear into PA or PN for that matter, it can soak into them by ideological brotherhood.
Co-opting of sorts .. like having proxy access. There is no need to have a violent explicit take over when you can co-own everything quietly under the sheets.
The way they've been fooling and milking the US so far, suggests that even the above mentioned is doable.
 

Ray

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My wish is to see India reach a point.

What point? A point of 70%-80% domestic manufacturing of military hardware.

How to reach that point? That is less important.

What is important, at least to me, is to stop this repetitive finger pointing at PRC's plagiarizing. True it is. Repeating it helps us little.
It only helps in demoralising the people to suggest that they lie down and enjoy by accepting that China's plagiarising is par for the course.

Instead, if kept drumming in, one wakes up and smells the coffee.



Whether it is an opinion, or based on reasonably accurate analysis, is something we would have worked out together. Please refer to this post in particular, and the entire debate in general. This is just one example, and not the only example.
I will buy your line.

Gen KV Krishna Rao, who was the Chief of Army Staff is a buffoon and wrongly assigned the post by the Govt, and that you know better.

Cheers!
 

prohumanity

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The english language media is very skilled into confusing average Indians who do not have depth of understanding of motives of certain declining powers.
These powers know that their hegemony is in danger as major countries are uniting and communicating with each other, which can puncture the hegemony and bullying.
One goal is to create enmity and hatred between India and China so that these two giants can not be friends. Take one on their side and pit against the other ..thus..weekening both. China and Russia has gotten into an unbreakable bond by major energy and business deals in last few months. Its now, just India which can be used against these two other major powers...so the west will try to lure India into its camp by bribes and sweet talk. Look at John Mc cain..the bloody war monster, camping in New Delhi for last 3 days to manipulate Modi company. He is a sales agent of Lockheed Martin, General dynamics and Boeing..and gets tons of money promoting wars and creating wars.
I believe India is very lucky to have these BJP nation loving ,patriots in power at this crucial juncture. India should trust China as Prezident Xi seems an honest guy and has repeatedly made very sensible statements about India China relationship ....and as always..Russia is a time tested friend of India and Prez. Putin is bold, gutsy guy who scares the west as they can never manipulate and intimidate this man of steel. A group of Russia, China, India supported by Iran, Brazil, Myanmar, Bangla Desh, and many other neighboring countries ..can be a formidable force to counter western bullying and rebalance the lopsided world order.
 

pmaitra

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I will buy your line.
I do not seek to convince you.

A wise man once said that, in a debate, one rarely convinces the opponent. My counter arguments are for the fence sitters. Let them hear out both the sides and draw their own conclusions, without outsouring their intelligence to Gen. Krishna Rao.
Gen KV Krishna Rao, who was the Chief of Army Staff is a buffoon and wrongly assigned the post by the Govt, and that you know better.
Let Gen. Krishna Rao be entitled to his opinion. I am going to investigate with whatever evidence I have with me.

I am happy to accept to defeat in the face of the truth.

सत्यमेव जयते
 

Ray

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I do not seek to convince you.

A wise man once said that, in a debate, one rarely convinces the opponent. My counter arguments are for the fence sitters. Let them hear out both the sides and draw their own conclusions, without outsouring their intelligence to Gen. Krishna Rao.
I understand that you did not want to convince me.

I know that you are aware that I am in the profession whose duty is to do its best to defend the nation and the Govt policies. But then I give way to you and prohumanity that you both ensconced on foreign shores all know better and more equipped with Indian Govt files, memos, confidential and secret notes at your disposal than those who are entrusted with the same.

If you say that KV Krishna Rao was a poddlefaker

Gen. Krishna Rao is entitled to his opinion. Of course he is. He has seen the documents available with the Army and the Govt.

But then, I surmise prohumanity has greater access to Chinese documents than KVKR! Must be a very trusted person for the Chinese Communists. He sure seems to be a great fan of Communist comrade Tongzhi Xi!

McCain maybe an agent of Lockheed Martin, General dynamics and Boeing.

Surprising he has forgotten that on the Google there are links to state that McCain is also close to the AQ and ISIS.

Could it be that he was in Delhi for 'organising' the release of Indian hostages held by the ISIS?

But then I don't know.

Prohumanity could help us here.

सत्यमेव जयते
With all humility I will state I am not enamoured by slogans. I believe in results.

Has सत्यमेव जयते enveloped India as yet?

As good as Garibi Hatao!
 
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brational

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Ledo(Assam) to Kunming. This is the road constructed by Americans during WW-II.
 
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vetiarvind

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The english language media is very skilled into confusing average Indians who do not have depth of understanding of motives of certain declining powers.
These powers know that their hegemony is in danger as major countries are uniting and communicating with each other, which can puncture the hegemony and bullying.
One goal is to create enmity and hatred between India and China so that these two giants can not be friends. Take one on their side and pit against the other ..thus..weekening both. China and Russia has gotten into an unbreakable bond by major energy and business deals in last few months. Its now, just India which can be used against these two other major powers...so the west will try to lure India into its camp by bribes and sweet talk. Look at John Mc cain..the bloody war monster, camping in New Delhi for last 3 days to manipulate Modi company. He is a sales agent of Lockheed Martin, General dynamics and Boeing..and gets tons of money promoting wars and creating wars.
I believe India is very lucky to have these BJP nation loving ,patriots in power at this crucial juncture. India should trust China as Prezident Xi seems an honest guy and has repeatedly made very sensible statements about India China relationship ....and as always..Russia is a time tested friend of India and Prez. Putin is bold, gutsy guy who scares the west as they can never manipulate and intimidate this man of steel. A group of Russia, China, India supported by Iran, Brazil, Myanmar, Bangla Desh, and many other neighboring countries ..can be a formidable force to counter western bullying and rebalance the lopsided world order.
^This. I do not understand why everyone here seems so anti-China. India and China have been pally for a while now, atleast since Manmohan's visit there. BRICS is taking off big and China desperately needs India on it's side as the US is flirting with it. China has been emphasizing that the border issue is a very small thing. Also, they said last year that the "indo-china" friendship was the most "important bilateral friendship in the world". That is a huge statement and shows where China is heading. They're clearly looking for creating a multi-polar world, at least economically. All the political indicators seem to be directed that way. Personally, I also think most Indians are for a more powerful east. After all, India and China were the top dogs for 18 of the last 20 centuries.
 

Ashutosh Lokhande

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Re: Indo-China Border Dispute

@vetiarvind; how can you expect to be best friends with china when they claim almost all of arunachal pradesh???
india must leave its claim on aksai chin and china on AP. this is the only we can see a strong indo-china partnership.
 
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prohumanity

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Ray, I do not have any access to any secret documents of any country. I am a voracious reader of history, have an open mind and want to know THE WHOLE TRUTH. Lots of my comments are based on the tons of long term memory I have of 70s, 80s and 90s events and world affairs as I was always a very avid reader and world watcher. If you have watched and read for over 30 years, you will get the tilt, the slant,the distortion, the agenda of various news sources...don't forget to find out source of the money financing these news media...that will give some clue to their hidden agenda.
India bashing was a regular feature as India ,esp. during Indira Gandhi's rule ,could not be subjugated and had self confidence and dared to stand up to the western powers and those powers could not handle it. Henry Kissinger called India Gandhi "that Indian bitch who did not budge" "Indians are bastards" etc. (From declassified documents 2-3 years ago per a news source ) I can not help you as I am not an insider....I am only a very concerned, pro-humanity student of history and geopolitical events and current affairs. The way the world is being hurled into uncontrolled violence with stupid foreign policy of arrogant powers ..is only going to make all of us very unhappy,very unsafe and very sad. Possible good outcome may be an accelerated way to MULTI-POLAR World where major nations make big decisions by consensus....Gang of 7 will soon become outdated and obsolete..within a decade.
 

cobra commando

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China mulls opening of new route to Kailash Mansarovar

BEIJING: In a major political gesture, Chinese President Xi Jinping is expected to announce the opening of a new safe route for Indian pilgrims visiting Kailash and Mansarovar in Tibet via Sikkim during his forthcoming visit to India. Besides a package of major investments, Xi may announce the opening of the route sought by Prime Minister Narendra Modi during their first meeting in Fortaleza in Brazil in July this year. Chinese officials say the proposal is under serious consideration. All announcements including the quantum of investments China plans to make in India are expected to be announced during Xi's visit planned for the third week of this month. Expectations are high that the route through Nathu La border point in Sikkim would be part of the big gesture of friendship not only to strike chord with Modi but also the people at large, specially the Hindus and Buddhists considering its religious importance. Modi wanted the second route for the Kailash-Mansarovar Yatra, keeping in view the terrain difficulties of the existing routes through Uttarakhand and Nepal which involved arduous journey involving heavy tracking or by mules. The Yatra involves trekking at high altitudes of up to 19,500 feet. The Yatra being organized by external affairs ministry goes through Lipu Pass, Himalayan pass connecting the Kumaon region of Uttarakhand in India with the old trading town of Taklakot in Tibet. The route was badly damaged in recent floods in Uttarakhand. The ministry take over 1,000 pilgrims a year in 18 batches involving a 22 day journey.


More in the link:
China mulls opening of new route to Kailash Mansarovar - The Times of India
 

prohumanity

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Love is more powerful than hate..Chinese leadership is wise and doing to right thing to erase the dislike between India and China ..instigated by outside sources. These two ancient civilizations have tremendous potential to cooperate and respect each other showing the world that equality based partnership is possible between two big powers...don't have to always think in terms of who dominates who ? President Xi's Win-Win theory in action ! Modi is equally wise.
 

cobra commando

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Doval to visit Beijing ahead of Xi's India trip

National security advisor Ajit Doval will visit Beijing next week for talks with Chinese leaders ahead of President Xi Jinping's visit to India later this month. During his three-day visit starting from September 8, Doval would hold talks with Yang Jiechi, the Chinese state councillor, officials here said. He is also later expected to call on Xi. Doval and Yang are also special representatives for the India- China border talks. However, Doval's visit is part of preparations for Xi's visit to India expected to take place in the third week of this month and not connected with the border talks, officials told PTI. This is Doval's first visit to China after he succeeded Shivshankar Menon. Both countries are currently making hectic preparations for Xi's first visit to India after he took over as president last year. Commerce minister Nirmala Sitharaman just concluded a three-day visit this week during which she held talks with her Chinese counterpart Gao Hucheng to discuss issues relating to Chinese plans to establish industrial parks in India as well as to take part in the modernisation of Indian railways expected to be announced by Xi during his visit.
Doval to visit Beijing ahead of Xi's India trip - Hindustan Times
 

t_co

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Doval to visit Beijing ahead of Xi's India trip

National security advisor Ajit Doval will visit Beijing next week for talks with Chinese leaders ahead of President Xi Jinping's visit to India later this month. During his three-day visit starting from September 8, Doval would hold talks with Yang Jiechi, the Chinese state councillor, officials here said. He is also later expected to call on Xi. Doval and Yang are also special representatives for the India- China border talks. However, Doval's visit is part of preparations for Xi's visit to India expected to take place in the third week of this month and not connected with the border talks, officials told PTI. This is Doval's first visit to China after he succeeded Shivshankar Menon. Both countries are currently making hectic preparations for Xi's first visit to India after he took over as president last year. Commerce minister Nirmala Sitharaman just concluded a three-day visit this week during which she held talks with her Chinese counterpart Gao Hucheng to discuss issues relating to Chinese plans to establish industrial parks in India as well as to take part in the modernisation of Indian railways expected to be announced by Xi during his visit.
Doval to visit Beijing ahead of Xi's India trip - Hindustan Times
A permanent border settlement will probably be on the agenda during Xi's visit. Likeliest outcome is consolidation of current LoAC.
 

nrupatunga

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China may commit $6.5 billion for industrial parks in India
China is expected to commit investments worth $6.5 billion to set up industrial parks in India and sign purchase agreements of over $3 billion with domestic companies during the visit of Chinese President Xi Jinping starting on Wednesday.

Besides, about 16 documents are likely to be signed in areas such as trade and economic development, drug administration and cooperation, an official said.

The Chinese President visit would start his three-day official visit from Ahmedabad on Wednesday.

China has proposed to set up an automobile industrial park in Maharashtra and a power transmission park in Gujarat. The Chinese companies are expected to invest about $6.5 billion for development of these parks, the official said.

During the visit, about two dozen Chinese companies are likely to sign purchasing agreements with Indian firms to buy products such as copper cathode, sea food, cotton yarn, industrial salt and polypropylene.

These investments and purchase agreements will help India in narrowing the ballooning trade deficit with China which has reached about $35 billion in 2013-14.

Further in railways sector, the Chinese companies may also ink pacts in development of 650 km rail track for high speed train in Karanataka.

The bilateral trade between the countries stood at $65.85 billion in 2013-14. China has invested only $410 million during April 2000 and June 2014.
So it looks like india would still mainly be selling raw materials to china.:tsk: What about pharma where india is competitive globally??
 

nrupatunga

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Xi to Abe, $35 billion is peanuts - By Madhav Nalapat
Bringing with him as many as eight ministers and 130 top businesspersons from both the public as well as the private sectors, President Xi Jinping of China expects to build on the rapport established with Prime Minister Narendra Modi at the BRICS summit in Brazil to create a new paradigm for the Sino-Indian relationship, according to senior officials contacted on telephone and in person. President Xi touches down in Ahmedabad on 17 September after lightning visits to Maldives and Sri Lanka, and is expected to be welcomed by Prime Minister Modi himself, in the same way as the PM was welcomed in Kyoto by Japan's PM Shinzo Abe. "President Xi is very keen on seeing for himself the way in which Modi has transformed Gujarat, which is why he was particular to begin his visit in that state", a top official revealed, adding that "both Xi as well as Modi have a shared interest in unlocking the potential in cooperative relations between China and India".

According to a senior official, the total investment in the projects which are slated to be approved during the 17-19 September visit will exceed $200 billion, thereby dwarfing Japan's commitment of $35 billion spread over five years, made during the just-concluded Modi visit to Asia's second-biggest economy.

Senior officials mentioned some of the big ticket items that are on track for initiation during the Xi visit, which will be the most high-profile ever by a Chinese head of state to India. "Agreements for two China-specific industrial parks, each around 5 square kilometres in area, are to be signed", an official pointed out. The facility near Gandhinagar will involve an investment of around $5 billion for setup, entirely financed by Chinese banks, and will involve companies active in power transmission and conversion. The one near Pune will comprise auto ancillary plants designed for export, and will have about the same land area and dollar cost of setup. "More than 10,000 Indian workers will get jobs in each park", a Chinese official pointed out, adding that it is expected that "a total of ten such parks will get initiated over the next five years, thereby making India a manufacturing location equal to that created by Chinese companies in the US".

A major item under discussion is a plan to involve Chinese companies in dredging more than 600 canals and reservoirs in six states across the country, so as to enhance their water storage capacity. This is expected to boost water supply to farms in these states, and is estimated to cost $18 billion, funded by Chinese financial institutions. An agreement on this is expected to be arrived at before 19 September.

Another mega deal will involve (a) the doubling of speeds on existing railway tracks in the country through use of technology developed and tested in China for the purpose; and (b) partnering in the construction of "fast trains" reaching speeds of 160 kilometres per hour. These would shrink travel time considerably while being much cheaper than the "bullet trains" to be developed in cooperation with Japan, an official claimed. No figures were proffered as project cost, although these sources said that around $35 billion will get spent on power and highway projects which involve Chinese companies.

"We are aware that certain circles are unhappy at the way in which President Xi and Prime Minister Modi are for the first time creating a new and mutually beneficial relationship between the two sides", a senior official said, but added that "on both sides, the leaders are popular and decisive and capable of implementing what they decide to get accomplished".

Among the agreements expected to be signed is the facilitation of an exponentially increased tourist flow between both countries, as well as agreements designed to enable more students from either side to study in the other country Another agreement likely to get signed between the two sides is the entry of Chinese banks as major lenders to Indian industry, with Bank of China expected to set up a branch in India after a lapse of half a century. "Even without operating in India, Bank of China has already lent $5 billion to Indian companies. This will rise manifold once the bank begins large-scale operations in India", a senior official said. He added that part of the blueprint for mutually beneficial economic relations between Delhi and Beijing is that "Chinese banks will lend money to Indian corporates, which secure guarantees of Indian banks for such loans". As Chinese banks have much lower interest rates and far longer repayment schedules than banks in India, such activity is expected to ensure a return to health of several units and projects now stalled for lack of finance or high cost of finance. As such a role may conflict with the interest of US and EU banking institutions in retaining the lead role in financial transactions in India, it remains to be seen if the Reserve Bank of India (which in the view of some seems to have its gaze firmly fixed on Wall Street) will permit such a quantum jump in lending by the banks of a country challenging the status of the dollar and the euro as the prime reserve currencies of the globe. "Such obstruction (from individuals and entities with a focus on Wall Street) may persist despite the benefits of cheap and abundant financing by Chinese companies of projects in India with a long gestation period, such as in infrastructure", an official warned, although later expressing confidence that the Modi government is strong enough to override such obstacles.

"The Chinese side is hopeful that Prime Minister Modi will shake off the biases of previous governments and act solely in the interests of India by ensuring that the best deal for India (rather than for Wall Street or the City of London) gets consummated", an official said. Another said that the Prime Minister's decisions over the past three months "indicate a leader who acts in a manner entirely independent of outside pressure", and that "in this, he is on the same page as (President) Xi Jinping". A senior official calculated the likely total loans by PRC-based banking institutions to industry in India as "being in excess of $75 billion over the next five years".

The fact that President Xi found the time for a substantive conversation in Zhongnanhai with National Security Adviser Ajit Doval on the latter's first visit in his new role to China, indicates, according to an official, that President Xi is on board with Prime Minister Modi on the need to expedite the process of negotiating a final border agreement between the two sides, thereby removing a key irritant in relations. According to him, such an agreement is feasible "within the term in office of PM Modi and General Secretary Xi".

Another issue expected to be discussed is the possibility of both countries coordinating their views and actions on Afghanistan, a stance unlikely to be popular with the Pakistan Army.

However, "China believes that an expanded UN Security Council should include only developing countries and not developed countries as new members", thereby hinting that as long as India remains in the "Gang of Four" (India, Brazil, Germany and Japan) and asks for seats for all four, Beijing will not give it the nod. However, "as individual countries, India, Brazil and South Africa would be welcome in an expanded Security Council", a senior official revealed. It is improbable that Delhi would end the four-country alliance decided upon by the UPA, in view of the importance of Germany and Japan in the economic and strategic calculus of the new government. However, an official claimed that "in case Delhi has ended a joint quest for the UNSC seat and is instead going on its own, the Chinese side will not disappoint our Indian friends".

While the actual results of the 17-19 September Xi Jinping visit are still to reveal themselves, it seems clear that the Chinese side recognises (in the words of a senior official) that a "New India has stood up in 2014 now that Prime Minister Modi has taken over", and that President Xi is therefore looking to "establish a new partnership paradigm jointly with him" in a relationship which till now has shown scant actualisation of the economic and strategic potential inherent in better ties.
@pmaitra @Razor @Ray what do you feel about the bolded part??
 
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Ray

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One can never be sure of China.

They say one thing and do something diametrically opposite.
 

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