India-China Relations

[I-G]

After LAC incursions, China now violates Intl Border in Ladakh
PTI 6 September 2009, 08:53pm IST

LEH (J&K): After helicopter incursions into Indian airspace, the Chinese Army has brazenly violated the International Border in Ladakh region and painted boulders and rocks in the area red.

The Chinese troops entered nearly 1.5 kilometres into the Indian territory near Mount Gya, recognised as International border by India and China, and painted the boulders and rocks with red spray paint, official sources said.

The incursions were reported from the area, generally referred in the Chumar sector in east of Leh, and painted "China" in Cantonese with Red spray paint all over the boulders and rocks, they said.

The 22,420 ft Mount Gya, also known as "fair princess of snow" by Army is located at the tri-junction of Ladakh in Jammu and Kashmir, Spiti in Himachal Pradesh, and Tibet. Its boundary was marked during the British era and regarded as International border by the two countries.

The border patrol discovered the red paint markings on various rocks and boulders along the Zulung La (pass) on July 31 and the Chinese had entered into the area and written "China" and "China" all over the place, the sources said.

When asked to comment on the issue, an Army spokesperson declined to answer any queries regarding this saying it was an operational matter.

After LAC incursions, China now violates Intl Border in Ladakh - India - NEWS - The Times of India

 

[amitkriit]

What holds Indian Airforce from shooting down those intruders, are they so hopelessly ill-equipped, or is it our poilitical leadership which is acting like a lamb in front of a wolf?

 

[Tamil]

What holds Indian Airforce from shooting down those intruders, are they so hopelessly ill-equipped, or is it our poilitical leadership which is acting like a lamb in front of a wolf?

our poilitical leadership which is acting like a lamb in front of a wolf this is the correct words. in this time they demilitarize the J&K region, what a funny thing they do. i can't believe this...

 

[RPK]

Incursions into India never happened: China - India - NEWS - The Times of India

LEH (J&K): China on Monday rejected the reports that its army has brazenly violated the International Border in Ladakh region and painted
boulders and rocks in the area red.

"Reports of incursions are groundless. Incursions into India never happened," Chinese foreign ministry said, according to Times Now.

"We will seek a friendly solution to the issue through negotiations," China said.

According to the media reports on Sunday, the Chinese troops entered nearly 1.5 kilometres into the Indian territory near Mount Gya, recognised as International border by India and China, and painted the boulders and rocks with red spray paint, official sources said.

The incursions were reported from the area, generally referred in the Chumar sector in east of Leh, and painted "China" in Cantonese with Red spray paint all over the boulders and rocks, they said.

The 22,420 ft Mount Gya, also known as "fair princess of snow" by Army is located at the tri-junction of Ladakh in Jammu and Kashmir, Spiti in Himachal Pradesh, and Tibet. Its boundary was marked during the British era and regarded as International border by the two countries.

The border patrol discovered the red paint markings on various rocks and boulders along the Zulung La (pass) on July 31 and the Chinese had entered into the area and written "China" and "China" all over the place, the sources said.

When asked to comment on the issue, an Army spokesperson declined to answer any queries regarding this saying it was an operational matter.

Though the spokesperson refused to answer further questions, senior Army officials said the issue was being downplayed as three of its Generals were currently in Beijing and Lhasa under an exchange programme.

This incident was viewed with seriousness by the officials as the Chinese have made foray into these areas for the first time since independence and sprayed the area with red marking as deep as 1.5 to 1.7 kilometres of the Indian territory.

The border forces talked to the locals located along the border in Ladakh and Spiti from where they came to know about the incursions by the People's Liberation Army of China in this area.

River Pareechu, which runs through Himachal Pradesh, has been a headache for frequent floods, enters Tibet from this region only.

Before this, Chinese helicopters had violated the Indian air space along the Line of Actual Control in Chumar region only in June and also Helli-dropped some expired food.

Reacting to this, the Army spokesperson had said "there was a report of a helicopter flying in the area south of Chumar, where India and China have differences in perception on the Line of Actual Control. It was reported by grazers."
India and China have been engaged in talks over the Line of Actual Control and had exchanged maps in 2002. In the western sector (East Jammu and
Kashmir), the Samar Lungpa area, between the Karakoram Pass and the Chipchap river, is contentious, with Chinese maps showing the LAC to be south of the Samar Lungpa.

This is the northernmost part of the border, far to the north of Leh. But while the Indo-Tibetan Border Police operates north of the line the Chinese claim to be the border, they remain south of the Lungpa.

South of the Chipchap River are the Trig Heights, comprising Points 5495 and 5459.

Chinese troops frequently enter the area and in fact, they have a name for Point 5459; Manshen Hill. The area, south-east of Trig Heights, called Depsang Ridge is also contentious. Differences were found when Chinese small-scale maps were interposed on large-scaled Indian ones.

 

[nitesh]

Incursions into India never happened: China - India - NEWS - The Times of India

 

[ZOOM]

So, Chinese soldiers seems to have following the approch of aggressive patrolling on LAC. Many experts in India are suggesting that India should beef up its infrastructure spending in this remote corners of the country. But as far as economic recession and increasing fiscal deficit is concerned, I don't think despite repeated incursions of Chinese soldiers, we would be able to make a effective roadways or railways this remote part of the world. Litterally this entire region is barren and inhospitable and because of lax behaviour on the part of Indian government, Chinese soldiers seems to have taking complete advantage of this situation. Since they themsleves mindful of the fact that, no matter how much Indians do the hard work in mobilizing the troops and related hardware alongwith necessary measures to contain this unlawful activities, still all this measures will fall flat. Because it is a perpetual process to invest both time, money and manpower in this remote region to maintain full integrity of the nation and all this things take decades and massive investment in monetary terms to have a effective deterrant. Chinese themselves have been working on this since decades to arrest all this shortcoming in their side of the border and hence we Indians cannot even known in which part of the Indian side of border is being intruded by the chinese.

 

[RPK]

Chinese incursions under army scanner - India - NEWS - The Times of India

Indian Army's Northern Commander General PC Bhardwaj will be visiting the 14 Corps within the next few days to take up the issue of
Chinese incursions, sources said.

What began with helicopter violations into the Indian airspace has now escalated into the Chinese Army brazenly violating the International Border in Ladakh.

The Chinese Army has brazenly violated the International Border in Ladakh region and painted boulders and rocks in the area red.

The matter will also be discussed at the next border meeting between Indian and Chinese officials.

The Chinese troops entered nearly 1.5 kilometres into the Indian territory near Mount Gya, recognised as International border by India and China, and painted the boulders and rocks with red spray paint, official sources said.

The incursions were reported from the area, generally referred in the Chumar sector in east of Leh, and painted "China" in Cantonese with Red spray paint all over the boulders and rocks, they said.

The 22,420 ft Mount Gya, also known as "fair princess of snow" by Army is located at the tri-junction of Ladakh in Jammu and Kashmir, Spiti in Himachal Pradesh, and Tibet. Its boundary was marked during the British era and regarded as International border by the two countries.

The border patrol discovered the red paint markings on various rocks and boulders along the Zulung La (pass) on July 31 and the Chinese had entered into the area and written "China" and "China" all over the place, the sources said.

 

[RPK]

China's strategy on India: provoke, pressure

New Delhi: Chinese troops are challenging India again. Reports say Chinese troops entered the international border in Ladakh and painted “China” in Cantonese on boulders and rocks in Indian territory.


Indian border patrol found on July 3 that Chinese troops had entered nearly 1.5 km into Indian territory near Mount Gya, which is recognised as international border by both countries.


A week ago it was reported that Chinese helicopters came into Indian air space along the Line of Actual Control in Chumar region of Jammu and Kashmir in June. The Indian Army recorded 270 border violations and nearly 2,300 cases of “aggressive border patrolling” by Chinese soldiers last year.


Are these intrusions intended to provoke India? Does China want to convey some message through these intrusions?


The answer is complex and related to the negations the two countries are conducting to resolve their territorial and border disputes, said C Uday Bhaskar, strategic expert, columnist and director of National Maritime Foundation.


“There seems to be an attempt from China to step up the kind of leverages they have as far as India is concerned, particularly over complex territorial disputes,” Bhaskar told CNN-IBN.


“India and China, over the last few years, have had a number of incursions and ‘violations’ of the Line of Control they both recognise. Just as we have instances of Chinese coming into this side, there are instances of China similarly making allegations about Indians entering Chinese territory.”


Bhaskar, a former director of the Institute for Defence Studies and Analysis, believed there has been a “steady pattern” in Chinese strategy in the last few months.


“Whether it’s violation of air space or the kind of reportage that has come from some Chinese journals, there is an anxiety growing in India that is China increasing pressure at a time when the two sides are engaged in a formal dialogue on the complex territorial and border issue.”


India has publicly said that it is committed to improving infrastructure along its border with China in order to help its armed forces. Could the Chinese be warning India not to go any further?


“I think this is a complex kind of signaling that is going between India and China.” China, last year, took a position that was detrimental to India at the Nuclear Suppliers Group, which was discussing the India-US nuclear deal.


China, earlier this year, tried to block a $2.9 billion dollar Asian Development Bank (ADB) loan to India. It said part of the loan was intended for water projects in Arunachal Pradesh, which includes Tawang, an area which the Communist nation says is disputed.


China, in May 2007, refused to grant visa to an IAS officer from Arunachal Pradesh. Bhaskar said by these actions China is “pressing its own case” in talks with India.


“I call this complex signaling. India’s relationship with China will really be predicated on its capacities: political capacity, economic capacity and military capacity. We have to work on all three fronts,” he said.

 

[sob]

The tactics are very clear. Keep up pressure on India with little pin pricks on different spots. It is virtually impossible for IA to cover every little square inch of the border.

Maybe the radar coverage has to be improved so that IAF can respond quickly to such incursions. If we try to downplay it every time it happens it will only embolden our northern neighbour to try even deeper incursions.

 

[ajay_ijn]

Does not make any sense. China and India are both economically growing. Both in my view will not be interested in any war right now. Looks like some one is trying to create a situation.

the perception of border is somewhat different for both sides in many regions. So if patrols intruding into other side of border, trying to do anything will definitely raise tensions and there is also a possibility of skirmish if things get serious.

 

[ajay_ijn]

The tactics are very clear. Keep up pressure on India with little pin pricks on different spots. It is virtually impossible for IA to cover every little square inch of the border.

Maybe the radar coverage has to be improved so that IAF can respond quickly to such incursions. If we try to downplay it every time it happens it will only embolden our northern neighbour to try even deeper incursions.

may be Indian soldiers can also intrude at night and paint India in chinese region.

 

[RPK]

Krishna plays down report on Chinese incursions

External Affairs Minister S M Krishna on Monday sought to play down the alleged incursion by a Chinese helicopter in Ladakh, saying that there is an inbuilt mechanism to deal with it.


Talking to reporters outside his South Block office, Krishna said: “This (India-China boundary in Ladakh) is one of the peaceful boundaries. We have no dispute with China in this area. There is an inbuilt mechanism to deal with such issues.


Krishna’s remarks came as the Indian Army said that its Northern commander, Lt Gen P C Bhardwaj will visit the Leh-based 14 Corps headquarters over the next few days to verify reports of Chinese incursion in the Ladakh area.


Krishna and other sources said the matter would also be raised at the next border meeting between Indian and Chinese officials.


Officials sources have said that Chinese troops entered nearly 1.5 kilometres into the Indian territory near Mount Gya, which is recognised as the international border by India and China, and painted the word ''China'' in Cantonese on the boulders and rocks there with red spray paint


The incursions were reported from the area generally referred in the Chumar sector in east of Leh.


The 22,420 ft Mount Gya, also known as "fair princess of snow" by the Army is located at the tri-junction of Ladakh in Jammu and Kashmir, Spiti in Himachal Pradesh, and Tibet. Its boundary was marked during the British era and is regarded as International border by the two countries.


The border patrol discovered the red paint markings on various rocks and boulders along the Zulung La (pass) on July 31 and the Chinese had entered into the area and written "China" all over the place, the sources said.


Indian soldiers later erased the text, writing ''India'' instead.


This is not the first such reported intrusion. On June 21 Chinese helicopters had violated the Indian air space along the Line of Actual Control in Chumar region. The Chinese troops also reportedly dropped expired tinned food packets in the area.


Some people blame the problem of Chinese incursions on lack of infrastructure.


India’s Ambassador to China, S. Jaishankar was also upbeat about the momentum in the development of Sino-Indian relations, describing it as a "very good story" characterized by booming trade, regular contacts between State leaders as well as rising interaction between the two peoples and even the armed forces of the two countries.


He also brushed aside media reports of conflict along the border as "sensational" and "alarmist".


As for the problems in bilateral relations, he said it is "natural" for countries that have genuine and substantial relations with each other to face a lot of these. He refused to call such problems "irritants", and instead termed them as "issues".


The Chinese Foreign ministry on Monday said the reports of yet another Chinese incursion into India are groundless.


The Chinese Foreign Ministry said: "Reports of any incursion into India are groundless and based on incidents which never happened."


The statement further claimed that Beijing seeks a fair and mutually understandable solution through a peaceful and friendly negotiation between both the Asian giants.

 

[NSG_Blackcats]

Ladakh: Where the incursions take place

Video on NDTV

 

[1.44]

Why is India playing clean-up after the Chinese?We should arrest their soldiers the next time they enter our territory.Maybe for illegal immigration?

 

[Vinod2070]

^^ There is a treaty on how such intrusions need to be handled.

 

[sayareakd]

^^ There is a treaty on how such intrusions need to be handled.

yeah their is, actually it is not treaty, it does not cover under international law, it covers under domestic law.

In this case section of foreigner act and other penal provisions of IPC would be available, but the short cut method is to shoot those, who have intruded into our land. :2guns:

 

[RPK]

Indo-China border one of the most peaceful: MEA

fullstory

New Delhi, Sep 7 (PTI) Notwithstanding the incidents of Chinese aggression, Ministry of External Affairs today described as "most peaceful" the boundary with China and said these "incursions" will be certainly sorted out.

"Let me go on record to say that this (border with China) has been one of the most peaceful boundaries that we have had as compared to other boundary lines with other countries," Minister for External Affairs S M Krishna told reporters.

He was asked about the incidents of China violating India's airspace and International Border.

Noting that the country has a very long border of over 3000 km with China, Krishna said "there is a built-in mechanism which is in place and which takes care of such incursions."

"With China, I think the boundary has been one of the most peaceful. So, there is no issue on that. There is no problem on that.

 

[1.44]

^^ There is a treaty on how such intrusions need to be handled.

The agreement doesn't cover attempts at land grabbing.

After LAC incursions, Chinese now violate IB in Ladakh
​

LEH, Sept 6: After helicopter incursions into Indian airspace, the Chinese army has brazenly violated the International Border in Ladakh region and painted boulders and rocks in the area red.
The Chinese troops entered nearly 1.5 kilometres into the Indian territory near Mount Gya, recognised as International Border by India and China, and painted the boulders and rocks with red spray paint, official sources said.
The incursions were reported from the area, generally referred in the Chumar sector in east of Leh, and painted “China” in Cantonese with Red spray paint all over the boulders and rocks, they said.
The 22,420 ft Mount Gya, also known as “fair princess of snow” by Army is located at the tri-junction of Ladakh in Jammu and Kashmir, Spiti in Himachal Pradesh, and Tibet. Its boundary was marked during the British era and regarded as International Border by the two countries.
The border patrol discovered the red paint markings on various rocks and boulders along the Zulung La (pass) on July 31 and the Chinese had entered into the area and written “China” and “China” all over the place, the sources said.
When asked to comment on the issue, an Army spokesperson declined to answer any queries regarding this saying it was an operational matter.
Though the spokesperson refused to answer further questions, senior Army officials said the issue was being downplayed as three of its Generals were currently in Beijing and Lhasa under an exchange programme.
This incident was viewed with seriousness by the officials as the Chinese have made foray into these areas for the first time since independence and sprayed the area with red marking as deep as 1.5 to 1.7 kilometres of the Indian territory.
The border forces talked to the locals located along the border in Ladakh and Spiti from where they came to know about the incursions by the People’s Liberation Army of China in this area.
River Pareechu, which runs through Himachal Pradesh, has been a headache for frequent floods, enters Tibet from this region only.
Before this, Chinese helicopters had violated the Indian air space along the Line of Actual Control in Chumar region only in June and also Helli-dropped some expired food.
Reacting to this, the Army spokesperson had said “there was a report of a helicopter flying in the area south of Chumar, where India and China have differences in perception on the Line of Actual Control. It was reported by grazers.”
India and China have been engaged in talks over the Line of Actual Control and had exchanged maps in 2002. In the western sector (East Jammu and Kashmir), the Samar Lungpa area, between the Karakoram Pass and the Chipchap river, is contentious, with Chinese maps showing the LAC to be south of the Samar Lungpa.
This is the northernmost part of the border, far to the north of Leh. But while the Indo-Tibetan Border Police operates north of the line the Chinese claim to be the border, they remain south of the Lungpa.
South of the Chipchap River are the Trig Heights, comprising Points 5495 and 5459.
Chinese troops frequently enter the area and in fact, they have a name for Point 5459; Manshen Hill. The area, south-east of Trig Heights, called Depsang Ridge is also contentious. Differences were found when Chinese small-scale maps were interposed on large-scaled Indian ones. (PTI)

Daily Excelsior....News Page

 

[Vinod2070]

The agreement doesn't cover attempts at land grabbing.

But they are going back after pissing or coloring the rocks. We do the same.

 

[1.44]

But they are going back after pissing or coloring the rocks. We do the same.

You never know with the Chinese,they're probably thinking they gain some strategic advantage by doing this.

Btw: LoL