Imported Single Engine Fighter Jet Contest

[Kunal Biswas]

Its his choice ..

I would not and so my advice not to go there and spread you country defense knowledge, We can keep track here on what said and what not, Even at some point BR too get to far..

But Kunal Sir Mr Sancho disseminates his HUGE knowledge on the enemy forum
and Not here

He disarms the Pakis in a clinical and systematic especially their
boasts about F 16 s and J 10 s

 

[DivineHeretic]

Since India has a very strong defence relationship with Israel and now buying shiploads of weapons from US and Europe, there is really no bar on the technology level of asea RADAR on IAF's Tejas mk-2.

When meteor is sold to india along with rafale, IAF can choose to customize any available best asea radar from the market even if it does not accept the capability of the LRDE asea radar. So it is quite certain that LRDE will offer the best in tech, if it want's it's ASEA radar to be picked inTejas mk-2.

So when it comes to asea radar and best BVR missile tech for TEJAS mk-2 , there is really no bar on it.That is what indicated by ADA chief in his interview with AJAI SHUKLA in BROADSWORD blog.

As far as radar is concerned, it is now strongly believed that the mk2 will be flying with an indigenious AESA radar, developed by DRDO and LRDE. The earlier plan was to have the LCA in operational service by 2010-11. Thus assuming the mkii would take to the skies by 2012-13, the developers wanted the Israeli 2052, but now with the LCA mkii pushed back until 2015-17, there is ample time for the introduction of the indigenious AESA radar.


The following is a report by Livefist.
Livefist: EXCLUSIVE: India's LCA AESA Radar Programme Detailed

But you are right that it will be foolish to argue that it will receive no foreign help.

I guess you will be aware of the fact that the other and equally important sensor that will be attached to the LCAmkii is the IRST, which assumes a greater significance in the post 2020 period. Rafale has already gone down this road, banking on its IRST more than the RBE radar for good passive detection.

 

[ersakthivel]

But Kunal Sir Mr Sancho disseminates his HUGE knowledge on the enemy forum
and Not here

He disarms the Pakis in a clinical and systematic especially their
boasts about F 16 s and J 10 s

That huge knowledge is just a bag full of gas when it comes to LCA tejas.
I have seen it all in his post in that circus forum.Don't know what is the true intent behind such posts.

 

[p2prada]

As far as radar is concerned, it is now strongly believed that the mk2 will be flying with an indigenious AESA radar, developed by DRDO and LRDE. The earlier plan was to have the LCA in operational service by 2010-11. Thus assuming the mkii would take to the skies by 2012-13, the developers wanted the Israeli 2052, but now with the LCA mkii pushed back until 2015-17, there is ample time for the introduction of the indigenious AESA radar.

According to SIPRI, we purchased one EL/M 2052 radar for the LCA program in 2009. It further states that the reason for the purchase was because there was no headway made in the indigenous program. There are no other details, so information is sketchy since LRDE did say they need a partner for the AESA radar.

Anyway, LCA Mk2 was always planned to have first flight in 2014, that's because the F-414s were still being developed at the time. Now first flight is expected in early 2015, that's a good enough time frame.

 

[Pakistani Nationalist]

lol... even mk-i is not in service and ur comparing mk-2 with f-16 block 60?

 

[Payeng]

lol... even mk-i is not in service and ur comparing mk-2 with f-16 block 60?

I agree, with your point.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Get rid of your inferior complex, And be straight here..

LCA MK1 is in service since last year Dec for People knowledge, And we are even comparing MK-1 with block 60, Incase you are educated about the topic you can see the light, If not then get educated..

lol... even mk-i is not in service and ur comparing mk-2 with f-16 block 60?

 

[ersakthivel]

lol... even mk-i is not in service and ur comparing mk-2 with f-16 block 60?

you must have read most of the nonsense spewed on tejas in various circus like forums(with pakistan on their name) .Before making all knowing sweeping comments on page -9 try to read from page-1 and raise your objections point by point so that we can have a debate not a brawl.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

@ersakthivel
There are many members in both forums who are knowledgeable about defence matters with different view points, sancho is one of them. there is no point in abusing or underestimating the members in other forums,many members like myself love both the forums for different reasons.

 

[DivineHeretic]

According to SIPRI, we purchased one EL/M 2052 radar for the LCA program in 2009. It further states that the reason for the purchase was because there was no headway made in the indigenous program. There are no other details, so information is sketchy since LRDE did say they need a partner for the AESA radar.

Anyway, LCA Mk2 was always planned to have first flight in 2014, that's because the F-414s were still being developed at the time. Now first flight is expected in early 2015, that's a good enough time frame.

SIPRI is a very reputed source but according to the other reports, Israel did sell one 2052 in 2009, but the destination was unknown. It could very well be India, but nothing concrete is available as proof.

At that point of time the LRDE did indeed state that they would go for foreign consultants for the AESA for LCA mk2. That was 2009-2010. And suggestions/rumours/reports are there that they did manage to get Israeli assistance to AESA progam, much like the low profile manner in which they helped in developing the swordfish derivative of Greenpine.

The mkii requirements and performance characteristics were drawn up by 2008, and at time too GE F414 was touted to be the engine for the mkii. The f414 was under development sure, but only to improve fuel economy. There were already engines being supplied to the USAF/USN by then. The mkii was envisaged to make first flight by 2012, but as usual, slipped once the mki slipped from 2010 to 2014-15.

In a way, the 2017 timeframe for squadron level production is very achievable, especially since the SU30 would finish production. Not that there is a direct link, but more attention and funds will be diverted to lca and the Rafale, hopefully.

 

[ersakthivel]

@ersakthivel
There are many members in both forums who are knowledgeable about defence matters with different view points, sancho is one of them. there is no point in abusing or underestimating the members in other forums,many members like myself love both the forums for different reasons.

I just want to draw them here for a debate that's all. None of the criticism on Tejas was based on it's specs.Most of it is based on lies and falsehoods. for example if you go to page no-480 plus in a circus like forum across the border, a member makes the case for tejas being used in combination with SUKHOI in air to air role. But you can find our SANCHO saying since RAFALE has arrived Tejas is not even fit for that.

We can have three TEJAS for the price of one RAFALE(if you include total life cycle costs for all the imported upgrades throughout the lifetime).TEJAS mk-2 will have almost the same size RAFALE ASEA radar and a possible METEOR missile combo. Then how come TEJAS mk-2 won't be fit for combined operations in indian airspace along with SUKHOI-30 MKI, when RAFALE alone is fit for that.

RAFALE is a stand alone multirole fighter with best in class deep penetration strike capabilities. And will operate as a stand alone fighter. Surely we are not burning 20 billion dollars merely to find a team player for SUKHOI-30 MKI.making such dubious analysis on an open forum is not a bright idea.

 

[p2prada]

SIPRI is a very reputed source but according to the other reports, Israel did sell one 2052 in 2009, but the destination was unknown. It could very well be India, but nothing concrete is available as proof.

SIPRI says the 2052 headed to India. That's proof enough.

Anyway I rummaged a bit and found something. The LRDE's search for a DP was completed in 2011. Of course, no idea when the contract was signed.

EADS, Elta, Phazatron, Thales and Selex were in the running. Selex was dumped due to procedural issues. Phazatron and Thales were dumped for technical reasons. EADS and Elta fought it out and Elta won. Americans did not participate as they were not allowed to by the US Congress.

It was decided only two years ago that the LCA will have AESA. Before that there were only feasibility studies and the hunt for a partner.

 

[Yusuf]

@p2prada

Didn't Israel back out from the deal under US pressure. This was after the teen fighters didn't make it to the shortlist in the MRCA deal.

 

[p2prada]

@p2prada

Didn't Israel back out from the deal under US pressure. This was after the teen fighters didn't make it to the shortlist in the MRCA deal.

This was before the shortlists came out. More to do with stopping Saab from selling Gripen with the 2052.

The ban happened in 2011. There were reports earlier that Israel sold one EL/M 2052 to an unknown air force for $95 Million in 2007. We didn't know which country. Since SIPRI lists one 2052 being transferred to India, we know that at least one 2052 was bought by India. Perhaps this $95 Million contract was for the one radar.

 

[WMD]

This was before the shortlists came out. More to do with stopping Saab from selling Gripen with the 2052.

The ban happened in 2011. There were reports earlier that Israel sold one EL/M 2052 to an unknown air force for $95 Million in 2007. We didn't know which country. Since SIPRI lists one 2052 being transferred to India, we know that at least one 2052 was bought by India. Perhaps this $95 Million contract was for the one radar.

$95 Million for one radar sounds very high.
BTW there is no delivery date for the EL/M-2052 radar mentioned in the SIPRI db,
also no delivery date mentioned for the derby and p-5 missiles for SPYDER SAMs (as u mentioned in SPYDER thread), just deliver was supposed to begin in 2011.(writing from memory, can't access the sipri db, being updated)

 

[p2prada]

$95 Million for one radar sounds very high.

Naturally. It is not produced in large quantities, this would be a hand made radar. Apart from that the Israelis sell to us at premium rates (2x, 3x, 4x etc) compared to the Israeli military.

BTW there is no delivery date for the EL/M-2052 radar mentioned in the SIPRI db,
also no delivery date mentioned for the derby and p-5 missiles for SPYDER SAMs (as u mentioned in SPYDER thread), just deliver was supposed to begin in 2011.(writing from memory, can't access the sipri db, being updated)

We need to wait for the updated version since SIPRI may not have the latest info of the time when we took deliveries. The previous SIPRI database was only until 2011. The new SIPRI database will cover events until the end of 2012.

 

[Yusuf]

This was before the shortlists came out. More to do with stopping Saab from selling Gripen with the 2052.

The ban happened in 2011. There were reports earlier that Israel sold one EL/M 2052 to an unknown air force for $95 Million in 2007. We didn't know which country. Since SIPRI lists one 2052 being transferred to India, we know that at least one 2052 was bought by India. Perhaps this $95 Million contract was for the one radar.

Why would India buy just one radar? We are not Chinese who will copy pasta it

 

[p2prada]

Why would India buy just one radar? We are not Chinese who will copy pasta it

We have always done this with radars. Even Greenpine.

Later it will be Indianized and we may licence produce it.

 

[Lions Of Punjab]

India aircraft industries are good but lack experience to make decent jets like other . nowadays india is buying weapons with their TOT (Transfer of technology) . I was thinking how about doing it the way chinese are doing . They are buying complete tech of old Soviet cancelled projects and modifying it completly in china . a good example would be WZ-10 attack helicopter .

What if our need could be fulfilled with russian Mig LMFS fighter tech . it is a cancelled one and Mig industry is facing hard time selling their jets . so i believe they won't deny . And it was a 5 th gen fighter , so we might get some good tech too . if we can get the complete tech that way we would be able to improve TEJAS as well as we might have a twin engined variant of our own desi fighter .

 

[arnabmit]

MiG LMFS is not a cancelled project. It is a proposed project touted to be the russian answer to F-35. Design very similar to AMCA.

MiG-LMFS design proposals

The cancelled MiG project was named 1.44

MiG-1.44 Prototype

======================================================

MiG-LMFS could be a good candidate to replace MiG-29K/KUB in future