Imported Single Engine Fighter Jet Contest

indiatester

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Thanks. I was just about to post it here. Please share
Very well done. I loved the video and the views you carried. One suggestion. You have spent more time comparing Tejas with Canberra. Can you add a more material comparing with jets its going to face in air like F16's , Chinese JH7's, Su's etc that will is possibly face in interdiction mode.
 

patriots

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things will clear soon ....,............more Tejas or sef

don't know why mod is not issuing statement.....may be still it's under consideration
 

Pandora

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Well I always advocate ,we should ask Rakshamantri to intervene in this and push Arjun mk2 ,LCA tejas ,rifles and carbine down their throat.Trust me ,I know how things works in IAF atleast now days they are more focused in good wife and somehow complete 15yrs in force before taking on commercial pilot assignment.
 

singh100ful

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This is what Prasun Sengupta has to say about recent LCA negativity

"HAL can provide the same type of consultancy (provided by Dassault), but to date no one has answered why HAL’s contribution in such areas was not sought since the late 1980s! The only one who can answer this is Dr V S Arunachalam, the then DRDO Chief in the late 1980s who successfully convinced the then PM Rajiv Gandhi to adopt the totally flawed methodology of developing the LCA Mk.1. It was evident to any qualified person (I.e. a licensed aeronautical engineer) by 2006 itself that the LCA Mk.1’s design & developmental roadmap was totally flawed & unacceptable to the prospective end-users (more about it explained below). But all this emerged in full-view only since 2015 when the stark truth could no longer stay hidden through denials!

Only those with blinkers on will view the issue as being negative or positive, as opposed to making an objective, emotion-less assessment of ground realities. One must NEVER be passionate about such matters, since injection of emotions clouds one’s final judgement. Now, let’s get the foundational fundamentals right:

1) Anyone seeking to develop a 4th-gen MRCA must receive substantial technical & industrial support from an established aircraft manufacturer from the detailed design stage itself. Was this the case with the LCA project? Definitely not, since the DRDO’s ADA was left in total charge of the LCA’s developmental effort.

2) The person heading ADA ought to be a licensed aeronautical engineer who understands the mandatory need for an optimally engineered end-product. Have any of ADA’s Directors to date been licensed aeronautical engineers? NO.

3) As per universal practice, ONLY a licensed aeronautical engineer will understand that whenever any combat aircraft is being developed, it is MANDATORY to start flight-testing the initial prototytpe aircraft with its on-board cannon & internal self-protection suite ALREADY INSTALLED. Why? Elementary: internal cannopn-firing involves generation of exhaust gases & kinetic recoil that have consequences for engine air-intake design/positioning configuration & the latter affects the structural integrity of the airframe. Until these 2 factors can be quantified through flight-tests, the airframe service-life can NEVER be established. Similarly, internal self-protection suites using EW jammers radiate energy that affects the performance of other avionics LRUs, i.e. electromagnetic interference (EMI). Hence, unless the compatibility of the EW jammer with other on-board mission avionics is established, the optimal performance of the entire mission avionics suite can never be ascertained. Has all this been done so far? NO. Cannon-fire tests/qualification & internal jammer-avionics compatibility tests should have been undertaken as far back as 2006. Since this wasn’t done & still hasn’t been done (contrary to global practices), virtually the entire LCA developmental effort tantamounts to putting the cart before the horse. Again, only licensed aeronautical engineers—not internet fanboys or techies engaged in CAD—are able to comprehend suich mandatory real-life realities. Hence, all that is outstanding for the IAF to do is say & convincingly prove (through easily available empirical data) that the airframe design/robustness Tejas Mk.1 & Tejas Mk.1A is UNSOUND from a flight-safety standpoint & that will be the final nail in the coffin of these two aircraft variants!!!

4) As for LCA versus MiG-21, don’t compare apples with oranges, i.e. 4th-gen MRCA with 2nd-gen MRCA. If you want to compare quantum of testers reqd/used, then do so between the LCA & Rafale or LCA & Gripen or F-16 Block 70. MiG-21 obviously requires far less testers since it does not possess the quantum of on-board avionics the LCA Mk.1 does. Human resource is always the most expensive component of any institution & that’s why the manpower-levels of the IA & IAF have stayed frozen & have not had any increases since the 1990s-hence don’t delude yourself with wrong assumptions."
 

lcafanboy

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So IAF is at fault here........
IAF is being made scapegoat this time around. IAF is strongly batting for LCA and is dead against F-16s which if it comes will be purely G-to-G diplomatic deal to please US.............

However a second plan is working too. Dassault is working to make LCA a formidable fighter. They are bringing in best of technologies of Mirage2000 & Rafales to make LCA unbeatable. It serves them as it will cancel all SE fighter needs so no Gripen or F-16s this will increase Rafales number plus they will earn on LCA too as they will be providing most of the LRUs like modified RBE2 AESA, EW suite, IRST, etc. all coming from DRAL, (they will also provide fuselage) while engines Kaveri-Snecma JV engine coming from SAFRAN Goa plant...............

This will also be helpful for fleet commonality......
 

G10

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$hit happens when you are only busy with manufacturing on license and then you are asked to get things on your own. It's 3 Decades of rust, atleast will take 5-6 year to go away. All we are paying for our sins, by dumping Marut. If we dump this too, Voila you will get another license manufacturer this time in Private.
Atleast private companies understand that there is a concept called customer satisfaction. Just look at how bharat forge is improving itself with zeal. Such motivation is completely missing in psu.
 

Babloo Singh

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IAF is being made scapegoat this time around. IAF is strongly batting for LCA and is dead against F-16s which if it comes will be purely G-to-G diplomatic deal to please US.............

However a second plan is working too. Dassault is working to make LCA a formidable fighter. They are bringing in best of technologies of Mirage2000 & Rafales to make LCA unbeatable. It serves them as it will cancel all SE fighter needs so no Gripen or F-16s this will increase Rafales number plus they will earn on LCA too as they will be providing most of the LRUs like modified RBE2 AESA, EW suite, IRST, etc. all coming from DRAL, (they will also provide fuselage) while engines Kaveri-Snecma JV engine coming from SAFRAN Goa plant...............

This will also be helpful for fleet commonality......
This plan looks better... just add some used M2K from France to take care of current gaps...
 

Kunal Biswas

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Bollocks ..

==========================================

IAF is being made scapegoat this time around. IAF is strongly batting for LCA and is dead against F-16s which if it comes will be purely G-to-G diplomatic deal to please US.............

However a second plan is working too. Dassault is working to make LCA a formidable fighter. They are bringing in best of technologies of Mirage2000 & Rafales to make LCA unbeatable. It serves them as it will cancel all SE fighter needs so no Gripen or F-16s this will increase Rafales number plus they will earn on LCA too as they will be providing most of the LRUs like modified RBE2 AESA, EW suite, IRST, etc. all coming from DRAL, (they will also provide fuselage)

This will also be helpful for fleet commonality......
 

sthf

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Good News (of sorts).

Single engine fighter jet procurement hits air pocket, faces questions
MANU PUBBY
9 hours ago

The F-16 manufactured by Lockheed Martin | Lockheed Martin

Defence ministry is concerned about restricted competition, potential single vendor situation that could spark a scandal.

New Delhi: The air force’s single engine fighter procurement has hit an air pocket with the government raising questions on why the selection should be based on the number of engines and not technical capability of contending jets.

The air force has been facing probing questions from the top defence ministry bureaucracy that fears a potential single vendor situation given that the competition will be limited to only two global vendors. Both these vendors were rejected in an earlier round of procurement on grounds that they didn’t meet technical requirements.

https://theprint.in/2017/11/24/sing...curement-hits-air-pocket-faces-questions/amp/


 

WolfPack86

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Lets include all fighter jets in competition and select best fighter jets for air force. We must finish selection process with in one year time. It is better to procure MIG 35 equipped with Uttam Aesa radar and kaveri engines. This way we can avoid single vendor situation and also fear of corruption. By the way this is my personal opinion. And also there is possibilty that we may procure additional 36 rafales i hope govt order 126 rafales jets for air force and for single engine fighter jet it will be tejas.
 
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patriots

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in my opinion we may select more rafels(36)
add 2 more sukhoi squadron(sukhoi is in production it will not take more time and again nearly 2 squadrons of sukhoi will be modified for brahmos so..)

and rest our own tejasmk1+mk1a+mk2
 

Babloo Singh

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Lets include all fighter jets in competition and select best fighter jets for air force. We must finish selection process with in one year time. It is better to procure MIG 35 equipped with Uttam Aesa radar and kaveri engines. This way we can avoid single vendor situation and also fear of corruption. By the way this is my personal opinion. And also there is possibilty that we may procure additional 36 rafales i hope govt order 126 rafales jets for air force and for single engine fighter jet it will be tejas.
A Mig 29/35 with Kaveri, Uttam, Mayavi, Astra... is good Idea, in fact we should experiment on Mig29K first.
In my personal opinion we should order 36 rafales subject to condition that they will provide upgraded m2K from french inventory... pick up 40-60 M2K which will enhance sq strength straight away and get working on Tejas / AMCA.
 

Kay

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A Mig 29/35 with Kaveri, Uttam, Mayavi, Astra... is good Idea, in fact we should experiment on Mig29K first.
In my personal opinion we should order 36 rafales subject to condition that they will provide upgraded m2K from french inventory... pick up 40-60 M2K which will enhance sq strength straight away and get working on Tejas / AMCA.
Russians have to certify - or no service warranty.
Changing engine is not easy - that too for an engine in development.
We will be paying double for two types of AESA with Uttam.
Mig29K are costlier and specially modified planes - the best plane to experiment may be the Mig 21 (as it's current engine has larger dimensions than GE engines) but I am not sure.
 

Kay

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Lets include all fighter jets in competition and select best fighter jets for air force. We must finish selection process with in one year time. It is better to procure MIG 35 equipped with Uttam Aesa radar and kaveri engines. This way we can avoid single vendor situation and also fear of corruption. By the way this is my personal opinion. And also there is possibilty that we may procure additional 36 rafales i hope govt order 126 rafales jets for air force and for single engine fighter jet it will be tejas.
No.
Not again. Best thing that can happen is cancellation due to single vendor situation. The other great thing happening is Trump. IAF wants Gripen, but will not get it as long as Trump is breathing from White House - that means no deal :bounce:
 

Kay

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IAF should be ordered to reassess how many squadrons are really number- what is the basis of the magic number 42?

If Chinese are not retiring J7s (700 of them), why do we have to retire our Mig 21s because of media pressure? Fly them less often, but don't retire.
 

Babloo Singh

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Russians have to certify - or no service warranty.
Changing engine is not easy - that too for an engine in development.
We will be paying double for two types of AESA with Uttam.
Mig29K are costlier and specially modified planes - the best plane to experiment may be the Mig 21 (as it's current engine has larger dimensions than GE engines) but I am not sure.
Mig 29 is aerodynamically a great air frame... lets have every thing ours in it.... basically whatever we want to go in AMCA.... Avionics, controls, MFD.... If results are good we just pay license fee for air-frame...
We can start working on it, even if there is delay in Kaveri use GE414
Basically that will allow ADA guys to test control laws on twin engine, with tail air-frame...work on sensor integration and short out issues related to supercruz basically everything going inside AMCA except for air-frame will be tested and proven, which will shorten the development and testing time. In any case we will have a very capable 4++ gen aircraft.
We can take up Mig29 K later on once we are confident about Mig29.
 

Kay

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Mig 29 is aerodynamically a great air frame... lets have every thing ours in it.... basically whatever we want to go in AMCA.... Avionics, controls, MFD.... If results are good we just pay license fee for air-frame...
We can start working on it, even if there is delay in Kaveri use GE414
Basically that will allow ADA guys to test control laws on twin engine, with tail air-frame...work on sensor integration and short out issues related to supercruz basically everything going inside AMCA except for air-frame will be tested and proven, which will shorten the development and testing time. In any case we will have a very capable 4++ gen aircraft.
We can take up Mig29 K later on once we are confident about Mig29.
Agreed.
But it is not ours...Same with Mig-21
...but I am not suggesting refitting it with Kaveri...just use the engine for experimental flights...
 

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