IAF Mirage 2000

[Wisemarko]

It's usual for an average american people to compare Indian apple and French strawberry...

It's a french economical choice. Because we are not in a war situation, the money for spares is limited so as to increase the number of hardware (because in case of crisis it's easier and faster to produces the missing spare parts than full planes).

When the french carrier is on mission, some months long, the serviceability of the embarqued Rafale are near 100% : so when needed it's possible.

Dassault has the nice habit of keeping its promises : The Promises to IAF is a 70% serviceability level. Just some months to wait for the result my dear average little american.

The report is a concern tabled by French official about Rafale so not a smear campaign. Don’t give bogus answers especially with your limited knowledge and access about French issues.

 

[Wisemarko]

F16 is a early 1970' tech.
Rafale is a late 1980' tech.

Rafale: Design started in 1978 with design freeze in 1981. The first TD rolled out in 1985. so not late 80s- but late 70s.

F-16 design of early 1970s and way ahead in current weapon integration, radar, serviceability and affordability. As demonstrated by continuing new orders and phenomenal commercial success.

 

[asianobserve]

F16 V remains a F16. Same small wings made for a light only air to air daylight fighter. Now that the bird grow and grow, the wings and the frame are shorter. For exemple.
It's not without that in head that an Agile Falcon with bigger wings was proposed some long years ago...

F16 is a early 1970' tech.
Rafale is a late 1980' tech.

F-16 first had AESA radar than Rafale. It first had HMD to optimize new sensors and weapons. F-16 is stilk the best all around fighter for its price.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

F-16 first had AESA radar than Rafale. It first had HMD to optimize new sensors and weapons. F-16 is stilk the best all around fighter for its price.

Good luck in selling that oldie to india for 24 billion $.

Meanwhile rafale dual engine jet deal will be under 20 billion.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

from 2012 are sporting an R-73 training round and an R-73 launch rail.

the IAF decided to integrate its existing Russian R-73 missiles onto the Mirage. but integrating these onto a Western platform had never been attempted. What's more, there were protests from the French government which was not inclined to provide any assistance in the integration of a Russian weapon system onto a French platform, particularly since a new generation of French designed weaponry was available for export to India.

Eventually, the integration did take place, with more than a little help from engineers from the Israeli firm Elbit, which, by then, had been contracted by the IAF to supply its sophisticated DASH helmet-mounted display, a device which projects mission-critical information to the pilot's eyes. the integration of the Russian missile would have been impossible. "Neither French or Russian help was taken. They were obviously upset," says the IAF officer but the 'jugaad' itself worked. "The R-73 missile was more capable than the Magic II that it replaced."

"Elbit and Rafael, Israeli original equipment manufacturers of DASH and Crystal Maze systems undertook the responsibility of integrating their systems on the aircraft but we had to give them access to the aircraft for it."

" But this access did come with a cost. "We could be blamed for Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) violation," says Air Marshal Nagalia. "The Israelis were the beneficiaries of gaining an insight into this system architecture."

This is not the first time the Israeli engineers had assisted the IAF with their Mirage 2000 fleet. During the Kargil war, Israeli engineers had integrated the Litening laser designator pod onto IAF Mirages in 12 days flat to enable laser guided bomb attacks to take place for the first time in the IAF's combat history.

https://www.ruaviation.com/news/2019/7/11/13825/

 

[BON PLAN]

Rafale: Design started in 1978 with design freeze in 1981. The first TD rolled out in 1985. so not late 80s- but late 70s.

F-16 design of early 1970s and way ahead in current weapon integration, radar, serviceability and affordability. As demonstrated by continuing new orders and phenomenal commercial success.

As usual, you're wrong.

Rafale A was just a test bed for 3 things : close couplet canard and delta association, mach 2 class air intakes without mobile part, new cockpit config.

Rafale C, the actual one, was ordered in 1988, so studied after. first flight in mi 1991.

Rafale C has no components, no shape in common with Rafale A, because a secret clause introduced in 1988 by the then defense ministry André Giraud add an objective in term of RCS.
Rafale C used the semi ventral air intakes and delta close coupled canards of the Rafale A, and that's all.

 

[BON PLAN]

F-16 first had AESA radar than Rafale. It first had HMD to optimize new sensors and weapons. F-16 is stilk the best all around fighter for its price.

To be the first don't mean you are always the best.
F16 is now so efficient that it was shooted down by a earlier poor greek Mirage 2000, and shooted down by a Mig21 in a dog fight. whaouu !!! impressive....

 

[Wisemarko]

As usual, you're wrong.

Rafale A was just a test bed for 3 things : close couplet canard and delta association, mach 2 class air intakes without mobile part, new cockpit config.

Rafale C, the actual one, was ordered in 1988, so studied after. first flight in mi 1991.

Rafale C has no components, no shape in common with Rafale A, because a secret clause introduced in 1988 by the then defense ministry André Giraud add an objective in term of RCS.
Rafale C used the semi ventral air intakes and delta close coupled canards of the Rafale A, and that's all.

Oh wow so changing history to fit your narrative.. Wow... Mr India masquerading as French is a bigger liar than I thought.
If you call subsequent improvements as new product then F-16 block 60 should be called as “made in 2000s” with conformal tanks, change in wing design as well as new engine and completely new avionics.

I am done arguing with a fake person who is not even comfortable with his/her true Indian identity. With each post your competence in these matters is falling like French morale. Adios

 

[Wisemarko]

To be the first don't mean you are always the best.
F16 is now so efficient that it was shooted down by a earlier poor greek Mirage 2000, and shooted down by a Mig21 in a dog fight. whaouu !!! impressive....

And Mirage did not even have to be shot down—- it tried to engage Turkish F-16 and crashed:
Hellenic Air Force pilot killed in Mirage 2000-5 crash occurred after mock dogfight with Turkish fighters
Dario LeoneApr 12 2018

 

[Neptune]

Rafale: Design started in 1978 with design freeze in 1981. The first TD rolled out in 1985. so not late 80s- but late 70s.

F-16 design of early 1970s and way ahead in current weapon integration, radar, serviceability and affordability. As demonstrated by continuing new orders and phenomenal commercial success.

The Rafale has a far superior airframe design compared to F-16. The F-16 has poor range unless it’s a newer variant with conformal fuel tanks. Rafale also has far greater rate of climb and generally meets or exceeds the F-16 in most other areas.

And Mirage did not even have to be shot down—- it tried to engage Turkish F-16 and crashed:
Hellenic Air Force pilot killed in Mirage 2000-5 crash occurred after mock dogfight with Turkish fighters
Dario LeoneApr 12 2018

It was shot down, Turkey just didn’t want to admit it publicly until 2012, in fact many F-16 have been shot down, everywhere from Desert Storm to Yugoslavia and Syria, even possibly over Yemen.



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_2000


In August 2012, after the downing of a RF-4E on the Syrian coast, Turkish Defence Minister İsmet Yılmaz claimed that the Turkish F-16D was shot down in 1996 by a Greek Mirage 2000 with an R.550 Magic II near Chiosisland.[80]

 

[BON PLAN]

Oh wow so changing history to fit your narrative.. Wow... Mr India masquerading as French is a bigger liar than I thought.
If you call subsequent improvements as new product then F-16 block 60 should be called as “made in 2000s” with conformal tanks, change in wing design as well as new engine and completely new avionics.

I am done arguing with a fake person who is not even comfortable with his/her true Indian identity. With each post your competence in these matters is falling like French morale. Adios

You are mad .

 

[Neptune]

https://www.ruaviation.com/news/2019/7/11/13825/

Not surprising, the R-73 is extremely potent, the Americans were impressed by them when they had a chance to meet German Mig-29s.


Not quite an R-73 but the Houthis fired a modified R-27 from the ground at a state of the art Saudi F-15, essentially using it as a SAM. Despite the F-15 dumping flares and using afterburners the R-27 still looks like it just barely hit the F-15. Interesting is that the R-27 lost a lot of kinetic energy from being launched from the ground.



In this video the Houthis definitely shot down some jet, claimed to be F-15 but also might be a Tornado the Saudis acknowledged losing.




The Arabs lost 67 aircraft over Yemen, a number of them were shot down. You can check the following site that keeps records of this.


https://lostarmour.info/yemen/


Here is an example of a Saudi Typhoon that bit the dust. Probably got hit by another R-27.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

Oh wow so changing history to fit your narrative.. Wow... Mr India masquerading as French is a bigger liar than I thought.
If you call subsequent improvements as new product then F-16 block 60 should be called as “made in 2000s” with conformal tanks, change in wing design as well as new engine and completely new avionics.

I am done arguing with a fake person who is not even comfortable with his/her true Indian identity. With each post your competence in these matters is falling like French morale. Adios

He's French. Argue whatever you want with him but he's an old member here and no one doubts his French identity. Admand2Rep and tactical frog are also genuine French members. Your subtle racism of calling someone an Indian to insult him will not be tolerated on this forum.

 

[BON PLAN]

@Wisemarko
Dans l'cul lulu !

 

[Flying Dagger]

F-16 life ending? Lol... it has more orders than Rafale got this year.

India is lucky to escape buying 126 Mirage with outdated radar and weapons that cost more than $75 million a piece. French can keep milking the Indian cow till it lasts.

Nope one of the criteria for that order was an AESA radar which Airforce wanted as an upgrade package too. Later we went for upgrade without Aesa and a costly deal yes.

As far as aircraft is concerned acc to IAF veterans in 90s

For dogfights

Mig 29 >>> mirage 2000 > F 16

And avionics radar etc

F 16 > mirage 2000 > Mig 29

In short Mirage 2000 did played a catch up game but even then it was better than the F 16s what our neighborhood had with no sanction to use them.

Overall a great deal anyday.

Infact a combo of mig and mirage made the PAF F 16 wet their pants in Kargil war and they remain hidden.

 

[Flying Dagger]

F 16 is still a big deal no two words about it but it has more to do with USA being the boss and France a declining power but a dependable partner in comparison to USA


And we all agree USA does provide support for its jets for a long period of time and they are available cheaper in comparison to French.

But USA isn't dependable never was. Who knows once they are done with China it will not be India on their target ?

F 18 may have a chance but F 16 is out of question.

 

[Wisemarko]

@Wisemarko
Dans l'cul lulu !

Wow! Congratulations. Someone called you French! à ta santé

 

[Wisemarko]

Your subtle racism of calling someone an Indian to insult him

I would not accept being called racist wrongfully. Read what the context is, as I do have right to respond to abusive comments. I wouldn’t be here if I was racist or disliked India. Thank you.

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

Mirage 2000 has nothing to match AMRAAM 120c5 c7.

So its not a match for the F16.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[Wisemarko]

Mirage 2000 has nothing to match AMRAAM 120c5 c7.

So its not a match for the F16.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Looks like French fanboys in India have drank the Kool-Aid that somehow M2000-5 upgrade will match F-16 of PAF. It won’t because it can’t. PAF is already negotiating SABR upgrade to get AESA on their F-16 as well as few AIM C7.

Indians should be thinking about cutting the lifeline of upgrades for PAF F-16 by purchasing the entire F-21 assembly. No US company will like to sell more to PAF afterwards. These are my personal thoughts.