How can we Improve Tejas Mark I? Your suggestions and ideas.

[HariPrasad-1]

Now Indian airforce is rejecting tejas continuously. Let us discuss how can we improve the performance of tejas and overcome its limitations. Let us discuss.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

My suggestions.

It uses lots of space in cabin . Its seat is made like a car seat inclined to give comfort. It uses valuable space. Back of seats should be made vertical or with angle should be reduce to the space usage. This will allow fuel tank to accommodate more fuel and remove dead weigh for balancing.

 

[Anirbann Datta]

in case of emergency ejection, upright seat can hamper the vertebra of the pilot ejecting, so the scientists made it slight inclined, I am no pandit but read it some where( some US test pilot got his same broken which resulted in paralysis , i guess) , you can google it for sources/ reference .

 

[HariPrasad-1]

in case of emergency ejection, upright seat can hamper the vertebra of the pilot ejecting, so the scientists made it slight inclined, I am no pandit but read it some where( some US test pilot got his same broken which resulted in paralysis , i guess) , you can google it for sources/ reference .

Cockpit is going to be uplifted as a part of aerodynamics improvements. So that issue shall not be there.

I suggest F18 like approach for continual improvement in Tejas.

 

[aditya10r]

My dream is to increase fuel capacity+increase inlet size so that it can accommodate a more powerful engine (preferably Kaveri)+CFT+2 more hardpoints on wingtips+ECM+EOTAS+Retractable refuelling pod.

This is my dream for Tejas mk2.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Look at the space behind pilot.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

My dream is to increase fuel capacity+increase inlet size so that it can accommodate a more powerful engine (preferably Kaveri)+CFT+2 more hardpoints on wingtips+ECM+EOTAS+Retractable refuelling pod.

This is my dream for Tejas mk2.

They have consistently enlarged the intake and they say that further enlargement shall not be required even if new engine is used.

The improvement I suggested shall improve the fuel capacity.

 

[Hari Sud]

Some of the objections of the IAF have been incorporated in the IA model, which is to be built post 40 initially ordered by the Air Force. There is no more room for any further changes and improvements. All internal layout changes are part of the 1A program. Better radar and avionics can be retrofitted as and when these are built and made available.

As for the IAF consistently rejecting the LCA, it is mainly not based on lack of its performance but on IAF's penchant for imported planes. They have eye on most expensive Rafale. They compare LCA's performance to Rafale and then reject it.

Moreover the clever marketeers of the foreign suppliers consistently invite the top and mid level brass to their manufacturing and training locations and sort of induct a sense of inferior product status in the local brand. Same is true when this top brass goes to air shows which are also marketing ships. Hence when this top brass comeback, they make noises about newer developments elsewhere and hence once again reject the local product.

There may be nothing wrong with 1A, but constant rebuke by the Air Force via a bunch of defence related journalists, who make their living via singing the foreign marketeer's tune is mainly responsible for a sense of inferiority, hence all the discussion on how to improve the LCA is born.

No Airforce in the neighbourhood has a fighter as capable as 1A in its class but it is the sense of inferiority which constantly dodge this pride of the nation, which ruins morale of the engineers and labour building it.

Shame on them........

 

[Screambowl]

without foreign help you cannot improve it.
India does not posses skills and technology to develop high grade engine and material + building modules to enhance Tejas's capability.

 

[xeaaex]

without foreign help you cannot improve it.
India does not posses skills and technology to develop high grade engine and material + building modules to enhance Tejas's capability.

No one is going to help us by sharing there tacit knowledge i have written a post on that in lca news forum.

 

[Screambowl]

No one is going to help us by sharing there tacit knowledge i have written a post on that in lca news forum.

It will not improve then.
Indian policy makers waste their time negotiating TOT when it comes to defence. They just want their cut in it. That's what they negotiate.

The best effective way is call back the skilled Indians and then develop it. But they will not come because of obvious reasons. They will not be given credit for this.

Some Ch*tiya politician will take all credits.

 

[Babloo Singh]

Well my Idea's on improvements on tejas...
a. Kaveri Engine... The safaranized Kaveri will not only add extra power but is smaller in length to GE-404 by 40+cm. This will open up approx 300+ Liter of internal volume, which can be used for internal EW suit or additional fuel.
b. Change the air intake shape to square/rectangular. Since all stealth aircraft use square inlet, I assume it has lower radar signature.
c. Reduce weight to as close to original design weight of 5.5 T from current approx 6.6T, It's 20% heavier than planned weight, even 5-10% weight reduction will do wonders to it's performance and range.

 

[Babloo Singh]

Well my Idea's on improvements on tejas...
a. Kaveri Engine... The safaranized Kaveri will not only add extra power but is smaller in length to GE-404 by 40+cm. This will open up approx 300+ Liter of internal volume, which can be used for internal EW suit or additional fuel.
b. Change the air intake shape to square/rectangular. Since all stealth aircraft use square inlet, I assume it has lower radar signature.
c. Reduce weight to as close to original design weight of 5.5 T from current approx 6.6T, It's 20% heavier than planned weight, even 5-10% weight reduction will do wonders to it's performance and range.

One more idea... there is nothing better than putting men & machine through fire of real action to know their strength & weakness, and hence real areas of practical improvements.
I suggest we train few Afgan Pilots & donate two-three Tejas MK-1A to Afghanistan to test the aircraft in real missions. Who knows it may even get a shot on green F-16 :biggrin2:
In any case it will fly along with US F-16's.

 

[kamaal]

IAF never rejected LCA. They are just asking for FOC standard to be met, so that they can procure the remaining 20 FOC SPs.

They have even committed to 83 MK1A, thats more than enough for HAL to keeps its production line going. If MK1A is good enough then they might order 40-60 extra to incorporate 2-3 squadron, but for that MK1A will have to prove its mettle. And by that time MK2 will make its debut and IAF will be more than happy to induct MK2s in larger number may be 150+ to touch that 42 squad number.

MK2 after 2024 will be almost ready to fly.

 

[xeaaex]

It will not improve then.
Indian policy makers waste their time negotiating TOT when it comes to defence. They just want their cut in it. That's what they negotiate.

The best effective way is call back the skilled Indians and then develop it. But they will not come because of obvious reasons. They will not be given credit for this.

Some Ch*tiya politician will take all credits.

With government investment in r and d additional we need investment from private companies too.
We have huge resources of private companies but they are very reluctant to invest in research, that's not the case in usa.
Do you know j p Morgan used to invest in peoples research during 1860's. It's 2017 and still companies in India won't invest in research except very few.

 

[Screambowl]

With government investment in r and d additional we need investment from private companies too.
We have huge resources of private companies but they are very reluctant to invest in research, that's not the case in usa.
Do you know j p Morgan used to invest in peoples research during 1860's. It's 2017 and still companies in India won't invest in research except very few.

Because they know we don't have capability and the investment will go down into drain.

 

[xeaaex]

Because they know we don't have capability and the investment will go down into drain.

If that's true then many would not have gone to us for better opportunity, it's the lack of better opportunity that drives people to move in countries that appreciate their talent.

 

[Screambowl]

If that's true then many would not have gone to us for better opportunity, it's the lack of better opportunity that drives people to move in countries that appreciate their talent.

You may be right but still Indians are good workers and not considered as innovators.

I just want Kaveri to work, that would be the best modification. But since we lack capable brains to work on it. It's not going to happen.
I do not consider other modifications as yet so necessary in tejas. It is finely built.

For instance a single modification in anywhere on fuselage will lead to 2#3 more modifications to accommodate that. And then a whole system is stabalized.

Eg: Lets change that air intake to square.

When you do that, you then need to retune the powerplant and see for any pressure changes. which is obvious. then you need to test it a multiple times in the air chamber and add further stabalizing modifications to it. like wing area cut short or some winglets added to it. The pressure of air on pay load.

So such modifications are important if it gives you some advantage. you cannot randomlz coat LCA with RAM material.

 

[Babloo Singh]

You may be right but still Indians are good workers and not considered as innovators.

I just want Kaveri to work, that would be the best modification. But since we lack capable brains to work on it. It's not going to happen.
I do not consider other modifications as yet so necessary in tejas. It is finely built.

For instance a single modification in anywhere on fuselage will lead to 2#3 more modifications to accommodate that. And then a whole system is stabalized.

Eg: Lets change that air intake to square.

When you do that, you then need to retune the powerplant and see for any pressure changes. which is obvious. then you need to test it a multiple times in the air chamber and add further stabalizing modifications to it. like wing area cut short or some winglets added to it. The pressure of air on pay load.

So such modifications are important if it gives you some advantage. you cannot randomlz coat LCA with RAM material.

Agree to your points.... and I feel taking experts help is not an bad Idea.
How ever I disagree that we lack capable brains, what we lack is experience.
Things like change the intake to square, if done will be done on 3D Models & then on prototype... it will have it's own issues but the learning (experience) will mean that same problems won't occur on AMCA which will fasten our famously delayed timelines of development.
Same issues with RAM coating, it adds weight so do it if we are able to reduce weight. But I see no harm in trying it out on PV again for sake of learning. RAM coating is not just painting and even F-22 has issues with it,
If our guys know real problems before we get AMCA ot FGFA flying it's good for us.
All these improvements / experiments may not be commercially worth to apply on full fleet some will get incorporated in future Blocks, and some will be sheer waste, but there is no other way to give experience to capable brains and make them experts.

 

[Screambowl]

@Babloo Singh
This was almost 11 years back, now what happened to it, no idea. These guys might have already left India.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/india...-technology/story-lCRAiAM2JfITcoU4ahCRBI.html
Materials scientists at the Indian Institute of Technology in Roorkee (IIT-R) have developed microwave absorbing nanocomposite coatings that could make aircraft almost invisible to radar.

The technology for building invisible, or stealth aircraft, is a closely guarded secret of developed countries and a handful of laboratories in India are doing research in this area.

Radars that emit pulses of microwave radiation identify flying aircraft by detecting the radiation reflected by the aircraft's metallic body.

The nanocomposite coatings developed by Rahul Sharma, RC Agarwala and Vijaya Agarwala at IIT-R absorb most of the incident radiation and reflect very little.

Sharma, who revealed his team's work at an international nanomaterials conference held recently at the Indian Institute of Science in Bangalore, believes their nano-product is a significant step in developing a technology to enable aircraft escape radar surveillance and protect its equipment from electronic "jamming".

Nanoparticles - so called because of their very small size - are known to exhibit unique physical and chemical properties. The IIT team found that crystals of "barium hexaferrite" with particle size of 10-15 nanometres have the ability to absorb microwaves. (Human hair, for comparison, is 100,000 nanometres thick).

They developed special processes for synthesising the nanopowder and formulating it as a coating.

Sharma said that the nanocomposite coating on the aluminium sheet absorbed 89 per cent of incident microwaves at 15 giga hertz - the frequency normally used by radars - reflecting only 11 per cent. A stealth aircraft should ideally absorb all the incident radiation and reflect nothing.