Hindu Contribution to Mathematics

[Soham]

If at all you knew vedic maths you could have completed the papers and done well.

Actually if we see how vedic maths works, it will make the mind sharper esp while young kids are learning as it will make them analyse as well. why does certain numbers behave in a certain manner etc...

It certainly would. Apart from superior mathematical skills, it also instills powerful analytical reasoning, basing everything on logics.

 

[Agantrope]

I wonder if there are people teaching vedic maths. Would put my kids into those classes.

Someone with any link with Kapil Sibal can ask him to make schools teach this. Better mail him the link to this thread. ( for the vedic maths part, not for the first part).

Yusuf it wont happen in any soon nearer. We follow 'adhidi devo bhavaha'. So all our kids will be immersed in the western mathematics and technology instead of our own tradition.

 

[ahmedsid]

I am against giving Religious conotations to Scientific discoveries or advancements, because such advancements are for all of MANKIND! For Eg: This can be called Indian Contribution to Mathematics, because as modern day Indians we Identify ourselves by our country, not Religion. So if today, a Hindu discovers something, what will it be called? Hindu Discovery? Or Muslim Discovery? Or Sikh or Whatever? if we can do so in todays times, why cant we label our past too by the name of our country?

If you are trying to prove that Hindusim was not rigid back then and helped in advancement of Science fine, but then as time passed, it was Hinduism which proclaimed Crossing the Seas as unrecommended. Same for Christianity which did harm to Scientists and same for modern day Muslim fundamentalists who abhor any kind of modernness.

Looks like some of us like Emulating our neighbors to the west by bringing giving everything a certain color.

I wont argue further, as I hate Mathematics, abhor it and feel it should not be taught at school to the level kids are being taught today. Basic Addition, Subtraction, Multiplication etc. Nothing more!

And Yeah, I didnt read the article or anything, because again I hate Maths!

 

[Soham]

I wont argue further, as I hate Mathematics, abhor it and feel it should not be taught at school to the level kids are being taught today. Basic Addition, Subtraction, Multiplication etc. Nothing more!

And Yeah, I didnt read the article or anything, because again I hate Maths!

Welcome to the club, brother !

 

[Phenom]

I think its far better to use the phrase 'Indian contribution' than 'Hindu Contribution'. If we are going to say tradition inspired these mathematicians then people could even call it 'Brahmin Contribution to Maths', which wouldn't be appropriate either. Several Advances in maths were done by people who came from the Indian civilization, so it's far better to call them as Indian Mathematicians.

Also I believe Indian contribution to Maths is very well recognized, there is a documentary called 'Story of Maths' and it clearly lists out the various contribution made to early maths by Vedic maths.

I wont argue further, as I hate Mathematics, abhor it and feel it should not be taught at school to the level kids are being taught today. Basic Addition, Subtraction, Multiplication etc. Nothing more!

How would India get engineers and scientist then?

Here is a famous quote
If in other sciences we should arrive at certainty without doubt and truth without error, it behooves us to place the foundations of knowledge in mathematics.

- Roger Bacon Opus Majus

 

[ahmedsid]

I think its far better to use the phrase 'Indian contribution' than 'Hindu Contribution'. If we are going to say tradition inspired these mathematicians then people could even call it 'Brahmin Contribution to Maths', which wouldn't be appropriate either. Several Advances in maths were done by people who came from the Indian civilization, so it's far better to call them as Indian Mathematicians.

Also I believe Indian contribution to Maths is very well recognized, there is a documentary called 'Story of Maths' and it clearly lists out the various contribution made to early maths by Vedic maths.



How would India get engineers and scientist then?

Here is a famous quote
If in other sciences we should arrive at certainty without doubt and truth without error, it behooves us to place the foundations of knowledge in mathematics.

- Roger Bacon Opus Majus

That was the Dyslexic kid in me talking man, a Kid who wrote 7 in the mirror image, a kid who always dreaded maths!! I was talking for all those people out there who dont wanna be Scientists and maths teachers I say we should not teach kids who dont like maths, maths! Teach the bright ones who have a flair for it. Maths is a talent, either you are born with it, or Not! hehehe

Anyways the whole world acknowledges indian contribution to Maths, and we Indians feel its time we rebranded it Einstein would ve been turning in his grave, for he should have mentioned Hindu Indians when he acknowledged India contribution to science (or did he? )

 

[blade]

A highly confusing thread. I am finding it difficult to understand the real objective behind the creation of such a thread. people are looking more interested in history than in mathematics. why are we talking about pre historic ages?
when chronology wanst matured enough. No one knows wht really happened that time. which country was known by which name or say what was the true social or religious state prevailing. This thread is about the indian contribution toward maths ..isnt it? then why to get stuck with vedic literature? cant we move on from there? strange.well how many rank 1(present day ) indian mathematicians are known to this forum ? i would be happy to hear a few names .[only pure mathematicians please )

 

[johnee]

A highly confusing thread. I am finding it difficult to understand the real objective behind the creation of such a thread. people are looking more interested in history than in mathematics. why are we talking about pre historic ages?
when chronology wanst matured enough. No one knows wht really happened that time. which country was known by which name or say what was the true social or religious state prevailing. This thread is about the indian contribution toward maths ..isnt it? then why to get stuck with vedic literature? cant we move on from there? strange.well how many rank 1(present day ) indian mathematicians are known to this forum ? i would be happy to hear a few names .[only pure mathematicians please )

Your confusion is valid. This was a thread that was created to highlight the hindu contributions towards Maths and Science, hence you see vedic literature and all that. But for some reason its name has been changed and this has lead to your confusion. There is already a thread about Indian mathematics started by SATA. Here is a Link.

This thread was exclusively to highlight the hindu contributions and thats why you do not see any modern indian mathematicians being mentioned.

 

[johnee]

I am against giving Religious conotations to Scientific discoveries or advancements, because such advancements are for all of MANKIND! For Eg: This can be called Indian Contribution to Mathematics, because as modern day Indians we Identify ourselves by our country, not Religion.

Sir, I dont understand this weird logic. If science is for all mankind and then why talk about indian contribution and try to limit the science to the narrow view of nationalism? Because we all want to highlight our nation's, region's, religion's, creed's, or race's contribution towards a higher goal like knowledge.

So if today, a Hindu discovers something, what will it be called? Hindu Discovery? Or Muslim Discovery? Or Sikh or Whatever? if we can do so in todays times, why cant we label our past too by the name of our country?

No. That logic was not the basis for this thread. Yusuf had already given a similar question and I tried to answer him. The contributions are being called 'hindu' because they sprang from that religion/tradition. Lets say a certain scientific theory's basis were to be quran/hadith, then can it be called islamic contribution to science? Yes, absolutely. The same is the case with Hindu contributions.

If you are trying to prove that Hindusim was not rigid back then and helped in advancement of Science fine, but then as time passed, it was Hinduism which proclaimed Crossing the Seas as unrecommended. Same for Christianity which did harm to Scientists and same for modern day Muslim fundamentalists who abhor any kind of modernness.

I am not trying to prove anything. I simply want to highlight hinduism's positive contributions to the world. Sure, Hinduism also has/had its share of drawbacks. If you want to highlight how hinduism led to lack of inquisitiveness and general scientific approach as time passed, then please do start another thread and we will discuss the matter there. But this thread was for the positive contributions by Hinduism. For, negative ones, we can have a separate thread. If you want, I will start thread for that purpose.

Looks like some of us like Emulating our neighbors to the west by bringing giving everything a certain color.

This is worst comparison. So, because religion has been abused and misused by our neighbours to the west should we all give up pride in our religion? Similarly, there are problems in India with regionalism, so should we stop having pride in our region or state? This is strange logic.

I wont argue further, as I hate Mathematics, abhor it and feel it should not be taught at school to the level kids are being taught today. Basic Addition, Subtraction, Multiplication etc. Nothing more!

And Yeah, I didnt read the article or anything, because again I hate Maths!

Sorry, but you should have read the thread, before making a post...

Lastly, when this thread talks about hindu contributions, immediately the questions are why I am giving it a religious color. Well, I like to portray the positive contributions of my religion, simple. Similarly, I may start a thread about contributions to a certain field from my state, because I like to highlight the contributions from my state. Does that mean I am giving regional connotations? That way, we would actually emulating our neighbours to the west who try to immerse all their diversity in their religion. In india, we take pride in our diverse backgrounds because our nationality is not threatened by it.

PS: I request you to restore the name of thread. It is misleading and is not the correct representation of what I had intended to be the subject of this thread. If the thread itself is unwelcome, then please delete it. Also, could you delete all the off-topic posts discussing mundane and personal issues.

 

[Vinod2070]

I do agree that science transcends religion and vice versa. However, I think Johnee is trying to highlight the contribution of ancient Hindu mathematicians. That is a valid proposition in my opinion as the science and religion were in harmony at that time and all the mathematicians involved were also highly religious people.

In today's world it won't be appropriate to have science or mathematics be linked to a specific religion. The knowledge belongs to all but there is no harm in acknowledging and discussing the reality of the time.

 

[johnee]

^^^Thanx, Vinod for understand my POV.

 

[Singh]

The word Hindu is a very misleading term.
Hindu which literally means "dark skinned" was used by the Persian speakers to refer to the Indians as per one folklore. Some claim it is derived from the name of the river Sindhu.
Some use it as a blanket term for all India and Indians, some use it to denote only those following the Hindu religion.
However imho it behooves us to refer to those ancient seers and sages as Indians/Bharatiya/Hindi as per their origin rather than the term Hindu, for they belong to all Indians and their achievements should be celebrated by all Indians.

 

[johnee]

Completely agree with Singh. The achievements of these ancient rishis most definitely must be celebrated by all Indians(if not the whole humanity). Having said that, these seers are also part of hindu tradition. The term hinduism and its origins is an interesting discussion, but lets stick to the meaning in which it is generally used today. Hindu word today collectively refers to all the traditions/schools/sects/castes that are derived directly or indirectly from the vedic religion/culture/tradition(or sanatana Dharma).

Interestingly, in the context of this thread, the word 'India' is a more generic term than 'Hindu'. What we call today as modern India has little resemblance with the India of ancient times we are referring to in this thread. The word Bharat that we use today for India, had different meaning in ancient times. The region Bharat in ancient times included the whole of sub-continent. Also, the word Bharat did not refer to any one nation. The region of Bharat was home to many different kingdoms. The word Bharat signified a region with one transcending culture/traditon. The only surviving culture/tradition within India today, that resembles the culture/tradition/religion that these rishis taught is Hinduism. So, it is only appropriate that we use a more specific word like 'Hindu' than a generic term term like 'India'.

Anyway, at the end of the day, these rishis and their achievements were both Hindu and Indian simultaneously. Here, in this thread, my aim is to stick to the hindu contributions. Lets discuss the Indian contributions on another thread. And most certainly please include the achievements of these rishis into that discussion. Thanx.

 

[johnee]

Anyways the whole world acknowledges indian contribution to Maths,

Not really. You should have read the first article, the author expresses the anguish that the decimal system we use today is still widely known as arabic system instead of indian/hindu system. Very few people(including Indians) are aware of the extent to which the maths was developed by ancients Indian/hindu rishis. General perception of India around the world is that, it is the english that educated us and before that we were living a tribal life.

Einstein would ve been turning in his grave, for he should have mentioned Hindu Indians when he acknowledged India contribution to science (or did he? )

Here is what I got from google:

Dr Albert Einstein was also an admirer of Hindu Thoughts.," We owe a lot to Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made.. I have made the Gita as the main source of my inspiration and guide for the purpose of scientific investigations and formation of my theories.!!!

Link

we Indians feel its time we rebranded it

courtesy google:

"The motion of the stars calculated by the Hindus before some 4500 years vary not even a single minute from the tables of Cassine and Meyer (used in the 19-th century). "The Hindu systems of astronomy are by far the oldest and that from which the Egyptians Greek Romans and - even the Jews derived from the Hindus their knowledge."

-- Jean-Sylvain Bailly

"However grateful we may be to Hindus who had discovered the decimal calculations this is definitely not adequate for what they deserve. Such a method did not flash even to the intelligence of the greatest Mathematicians of the west like Archimedis, Aparonious and many great men of Greece".

-- Laplace

Link

You see no rebranding is required. It is an accepted fact that these old achievements are essentially hindu in character(and thereby Indian). All that we need to do now is highlight them, so that it becomes common knowledge.

 

[Singh]

Completely agree with Singh. The achievements of these ancient rishis most definitely must be celebrated by all Indians(if not the whole humanity). Having said that, these seers are also part of hindu tradition. The term hinduism and its origins is an interesting discussion, but lets stick to the meaning in which it is generally used today. Hindu word today collectively refers to all the traditions/schools/sects/castes that are derived directly or indirectly from the vedic religion/culture/tradition(or sanatana Dharma).

Interestingly, in the context of this thread, the word 'India' is a more generic term than 'Hindu'. What we call today as modern India has little resemblance with the India of ancient times we are referring to in this thread. The word Bharat that we use today for India, had different meaning in ancient times. The region Bharat in ancient times included the whole of sub-continent. Also, the word Bharat did not refer to any one nation. The region of Bharat was home to many different kingdoms. The word Bharat signified a region with one transcending culture/traditon. The only surviving culture/tradition within India today, that resembles the culture/tradition/religion that these rishis taught is Hinduism. So, it is only appropriate that we use a more specific word like 'Hindu' than a generic term term like 'India'.

I would digress. It is wholly inappropriate that we use a foreign loanword to refer to the great seers noted for their originality.

Hinduism as is being practised today is nowhere close to the Vedic Religion. Hinduism is a fluid "way of life" and constantly evolving as per changing times. Vedic seers would be baffled at today's customs. The only order I think which still retain "their" ancient unbroken practices would be Swamis of the Giri order and their order is not wholly based on Vedas alone.

The correct word to refer to the landmass/subcontinent resting upon the Indian tectonic plate is Jambudwipa alternatively the words Arya-varsa, Bharat-varsha, Bharata, Hind, Hindustan are used to refer to India. And the correct word to refer to Indians is well Indians and Bharatiya in Hindi and Hindi in colloquial Hindustani. Of course problems do occur if they the context is deliberately misunderstood or twisted.

Anyway, at the end of the day, these rishis and their achievements were both Hindu and Indian simultaneously. Here, in this thread, my aim is to stick to the hindu contributions. Lets discuss the Indian contributions on another thread. And most certainly please include the achievements of these rishis into that discussion. Thanx.

How can they be simultaneous when you have in essence acknowledged that they are one and the same. However, Vedic is not a generic term and you may wish to highlight a narrow section of the Indian seers who were staunch followers of Vedic religion and not a "way of life" generically referred to as Hindu by the foreigners. So is your intent to highlight contribution of Indian origin seers or seers adhering to Vedas ?

 

[johnee]

I would digress. It is wholly inappropriate that we use a foreign loanword to refer to the great seers noted for their originality.

Hinduism as is being practised today is nowhere close to the Vedic Religion. Hinduism is a fluid "way of life" and constantly evolving as per changing times. Vedic seers would be baffled at today's customs. The only order I think which still retain "their" ancient unbroken practices would be Swamis of the Giri order and their order is not wholly based on Vedas alone.

I will disagree with you. The main part of Hinduism is still directly based on Vedas, Vedangas, Upanishads and Puranas. Of course, there are other traditions born over a period of time. It is natural and normal. It is simply called evolution and nothing more. As a practising hindu I can vouch for that. But there are different sects/castes/traditions/schools within the Hindus that follow the different parts of these shastras.

The correct word to refer to the landmass/subcontinent resting upon the Indian tectonic plate is Jambudwipa alternatively the words Arya-varsa, Bharat-varsha, Bharata, Hind, Hindustan are used to refer to India. And the correct word to refer to Indians is well Indians and Bharatiya in Hindi and Hindi in colloquial Hindustani. Of course problems do occur if they the context is deliberately misunderstood or twisted.

You are right with your first sentence. Bharat varsa refers to the entire sub-continent(well roughly). The word Bharatiya, is a recent one comparatively and does not represent the Bharat that was referred to in the context of these achievements discussed in this thread. The words Hindustan again had a different meaning when it was first coined. It did not refer to the modern India but over a period of time we have come to accept it as meaning the modern India. But the original Hindustan(when the term was coined), encompassed whole of sub-continent(including the modern-day Pakistan and Bangladesh).

Your last sentence seems to me to be an insinuation or allegation. Either way, you are mistaken. There is no deliberate misunderstanding or twisting of the context.

How can they be simultaneous when you have in essence acknowledged that they are one and the same. However, Vedic is not a generic term and you may wish to highlight a narrow section of the Indian seers who were staunch followers of Vedic religion and not a "way of life" generically referred to as Hindu by the foreigners. So is your intent to highlight contribution of Indian origin seers or seers adhering to Vedas ?

My intention is to highlight the mathematical contributions which were achieved while following the vedic/dharmic/puranic culture/tradition/school/religion. The word India refers to the modern India which is vastly different from the Bharat varsa that we are talking about. Of course, we could use the word ancient India, but even that would have its connotations. Also it would not give the right idea, as to what I intend to deal in this thread. As I said, I intend to specifically deal with Hindu contributions and not all Indian contributions.

 

[Singh]

Here is what I got from google:
You see no rebranding is required. It is an accepted fact that these old achievements are essentially hindu in character(and thereby Indian). All that we need to do now is highlight them, so that it becomes common knowledge.

Essentially as I understand the Non-Hindus irresp of Nationality treat Hindu in character as having a religious connotation, if you seek to exclude non-HIndu from celebrating their own ancient seers achievements then its a different matter.. if its not then using the term Indian achievements is appropriate and necessary.

 

[johnee]

Essentially as I understand the Non-Hindus irresp of Nationality treat Hindu in character as having a religious connotation, if you seek to exclude non-HIndu from celebrating their own ancient seers achievements then its a different matter.. if its not then using the term Indian achievements is appropriate and necessary.

You mean because they are Hindu in character, non-hindus will refuse to celebrate these ancient rishis? It is a narrow-minded approach which I think most Indian non-hindus will not suffer from. I am confident all Indians will appreciate the great achievements of the ancient rishis regardless of the faith/tradition/culture they belonged to.

 

[Singh]

I will disagree with you. The main part of Hinduism is still directly based on Vedas, Vedangas, Upanishads and Puranas. Of course, there are other traditions born over a period of time. It is natural and normal. It is simply called evolution and nothing more. As a practising hindu I can vouch for that. But there are different sects/castes/traditions/schools within the Hindus that follow the different parts of these shastras.

There is a huge gulf in the teachings of the Vedas, Upanishads, Puranas and Itihas. And many of the traditions are antithetical and so much so that some can't see eye to eye on even the fundamentals. This is not evolution for evolution doesn't spawn genetic mutants. A "Practising hindu" is a vague term that counts for nought and is wholly irrelevant.

You are right with your first sentence. Bharat varsa refers to the entire sub-continent(well roughly).

Bharat Varsha means the domain of (King) Bharata and as per some scholars refers to teh entire Earth. However Jambudwipa refers to the entire land mass on the Indian tectonic plate even before this tectonic plate crashed into Eurasian Tectonic plate to give rise to the Himalayans and other mountains.

The word Bharatiya, is a recent one comparatively and does not represent the Bharat that was referred to in the context of these achievements discussed in this thread. The words Hindustan again had a different meaning when it was first coined. It did not refer to the modern India but over a period of time we have come to accept it as meaning the modern India. But the original Hindustan(when the term was coined), encompassed whole of sub-continent(including the modern-day Pakistan and Bangladesh).

Bharatiya simply means something organic to Bharat, the nation. Hindustan also refers to North India as per some.

Your last sentence seems to me to be an insinuation or allegation. Either way, you are mistaken. There is no deliberate misunderstanding or twisting of the context.

I am not sure if I am mistaken.

My intention is to highlight the mathematical contributions which were achieved while following the vedic/dharmic/puranic culture/tradition/school/religion. The word India refers to the modern India which is vastly different from the Bharat varsa that we are talking about. Of course, we could use the word ancient India, but even that would have its connotations. Also it would not give the right idea, as to what I intend to deal in this thread. As I said, I intend to specifically deal with Hindu contributions and not all Indian contributions.

But the word Hindu as you have said is wholly ambigious and Vedic/Dharmic/Puranic cultures are antithetical to each other. For eg. Buddhism which is a Dharmic religion doesn't believe in the infallibility of Vedas and Sikhism which is again a Dharmic religion is against Caste system which is a prominent feature of some Hindu sects.

The word India if used in this context will undoubtedly refer to the region India and not the Republic of India. Worry not, the achievements of the mentioned Indian seers will not be diluted by using the word Indian.

 

[Singh]

You mean because they are Hindu in character, non-hindus will refuse to celebrate these ancient rishis?It is a narrow-minded approach which I think most Indian non-hindus will not suffer from. I am confident all Indians will appreciate the great achievements of the ancient rishis regardless of the faith/tradition/culture they belonged to.

I think it is great to lionize great Indians solely on the basis of their beliefs whilst negating their national origins. I am rather confident this is exactly the sort of "narrow minded" approach which those Indians not following the "beliefs" mentioned will follow. Unfortunately not all Non-Hindus or even Hindus are like you. You are the veritable incarnation of "Unity".

PS: Said in a sarcastic tone, if you don't get it.