HAL Light Utility Helicopter (LUH) and Light Observation Helicopter (LOH)

[kstriya]

India 100% doesn't need the Kamov deal, why the GoI is persisting with it is outside of my area of expertise, I imagine it is more of a political choice because from a military point of view an all LUH fleet will be far more useful than a mixed Ka-226/LUH fleet. It would be far more worthwhile to let the HAL LUH fill the entire 600 unit IA/IAF RSH/LUH requirement but alas, India loves its zoos.....

Kamov has a modular design and can be changed as per mission which I like the most. We really do not need it but it might be a backup plan or something offered for diplomacy..

 

[Khagesh]

How does this compa re with Kamov Ka 226? With news like this (http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/kamov-226-t-helicopter-indian-army-hal-russia/1/960527.html) , why do we even need Kamov? Why can't we just build LUH?

May be because the utility function cannot be completed in small nice predictable packages. Nine times out of 10 the commanders in the rear would not even know if they have lost one guy or ten on the front or if the ammo shortage is for one post or for the post, the patrol and the after hours party.

Nobody can guarantee that the only emergency they will handle will be the size a single engined helo can handle. Unless you would rather send in a Mi-17V or Chinook everytime just to make sure they don't end up under-providing for the task. For somebody who handles a laughable menagerie of equipment, much of it rarely used, an extra utility helo type would not really hurt. Our armed forces are called in first to handle emergencies. Char garib bihari marenge kosi ki baad mein to kya Chinook bhejogey?

And News like this mutlub? Kya gadbad hai about that news?

 

[Cutting Edge 2]

Why do you want it to be modified. it seems all right and there shall not be any major change.

Its part of test and improvement cycle. There is all room for improvement. Expect more changes in coming months as testing advances.

 

[Cutting Edge 2]

They need to start production in 2018.
So does that mean luh is kn time?
We have more tests to do.
Finalize the design
Ioc
Foc
And then manufacturing starts.
I hope hal completes it by 2018.

There are total three planned prototypes.
Third prototype will come in final configuration. (maybe 2018)
FOC won't be given until all required parameters are met.
Production will begin only after Tumakuru unit becomes operational.
Don't expect initial production to start before 2019-20 full scale production could happen only in/after 2023 (if everything goes according to plan)

 

[gadeshi]

KA 226 is meant mainly for BRO and not IAF duties, LUH suits IAF duties ..

Ka-226 is intended for mountain regions due to its better altitude and wind stable capabilities and also small Navy and CG ships for which Ka-27 is too large and heavy.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[abingdonboy]

Ka-226 is intended for mountain regions due to its better altitude and wind stable capabilities and also small Navy and CG ships for which Ka-27 is too large and heavy.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

Neither the navy not the coast guard have ordered the Ka-226 nor is it being looked at by either, the IN has its own NUH program and will likely select the Panther for this role soon.

 

[abingdonboy]

Kamov has a modular design and can be changed as per mission which I like the most. We really do not need it but it might be a backup plan or something offered for diplomacy..

No other operational helo has this "modular" gimmick, for 99% of the time this will be an entirely redundant and pointless capability that really doesn't suit the role these will play in Indian service.

 

[abingdonboy]

There are total three planned prototypes.
Third prototype will come in final configuration. (maybe 2018)
FOC won't be given until all required parameters are met.
Production will begin only after Tumakuru unit becomes operational.
Don't expect initial production to start before 2019-20 full scale production could happen only in/after 2023 (if everything goes according to plan)

2019-20 is the intial production target and HAL is looking good to meet it.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

In Russian conditions & terrain specific not Indian ..

Ka-226 is intended for mountain regions due to its better altitude and wind stable capabilities and also small Navy and CG ships for which Ka-27 is too large and heavy.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[Cutting Edge 2]

2019-20 is the intial production target and HAL is looking good to meet it.

The way things are going lately with LUH, 2019-20 target is definitely achievable. Initiall production target is 30 helis per year. So we can have 90 to 120 helis even before full scale production starts. After that 60 helis per year. These numbers are good and hey can easily fulfil our light helo requirements. We don't even need Kamov anymore.

 

[gadeshi]

The way things are going lately with LUH, 2019-20 target is definitely achievable. Initiall production target is 30 helis per year. So we can have 90 to 120 helis even before full scale production starts. After that 60 helis per year. These numbers are good and hey can easily fulfil our light helo requirements. We don't even need Kamov anymore.

Kamov is for special purposes LUH cannot perform.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[kstriya]

Neither the navy not the coast guard have ordered the Ka-226 nor is it being looked at by either, the IN has its own NUH program and will likely select the Panther for this role soon.

Why cannot HAL LUH be used as a NUH after specific modifications. We need to envisage a naval variant from the start...

 

[Cutting Edge 2]

Kamov is for special purposes LUH cannot perform.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

I think we can live without "special purpose" Russian equipment for now.

 

[gadeshi]

I think we can live without "special purpose" Russian equipment for now.

Yeah, of course you "can"

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[xeaaex]

Kamov is for special purposes LUH cannot perform.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

What is the special purpose that luh cannot fulfill.
If it is special why do we buy in bulk? Does that means we perform that special purpose in bulk?
That itself beats the very definition of special purpose.
I think we are done with russian equipments, it's time we should not let russians milk our money.
Also as a tax payer i need justification why we are paying 2.5 times more for kamov.

 

[Bahamut]

How does this compare with Kamov Ka 226? With news like this (http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/kamov-226-t-helicopter-indian-army-hal-russia/1/960527.html) , why do we even need Kamov? Why can't we just build LUH?

It is the same with su 30 MKI, it takes money to build the infrastructure to make all that equipment plus the machinery, so it inflates the cost.

 

[Amrk]

HAL Flies A Second Light Utility Helicopter
http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2017-05-26/hal-flies-second-light-utility-helicopter
by Neelam Mathews
- May 26, 2017, 8:10 AM


The second Light Utility Helicopter on its first test flight (Photo: HAL)
Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) flew a second prototype of its Light Utility Helicopter (LUH) on May 22. The flight lasted approximately 22 minutes, said the government-owned manufacturer. HAL has an order for 187 LUHs from the Army Aviation Corps and the Indian Air Force, to help replace the aging Cheetah (Alouette II) and Chetak (Alouette III) fleet.

The LUH design is derived from HAL’s Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH), and its single Safran Ardiden 1U turboshaft engine is derived from the Ardiden 1H, two of which power the ALH. Certification of the Ardiden 1U—named the Shakti in India—is planned for 2018. HAL said that the engine “has sufficient power margins to cater to demanding high-altitude missions.” Benoit Gadefait, vice president, Safran medium helicopter engines program, said: “The LUH will benefit from robust support under a new joint venture, formed recently by Safran and HAL [Helicopter Engines MRO Pvt. Ltd], to provide MRO to engines installed on HAL-built helicopters,” The facility in Goa has the capacity to service 50 engines a year.

Compared with the first LUH, which made its maiden flight last September, the second one has a modified tailboom. HAL said it hopes to freeze the configuration by year-end.

Meanwhile, under an Indo-Russian defense agreement, another replacement for the Cheetah and Chetak fleet is in prospect. HAL has formed a joint venture with Rostec State Cooperation to jointly manufacture 200 Kamov-226T helicopters at the new Tumakuru helicopter facility 70 km from Bengaluru. India will procure 60 Ka-226Ts in flyaway condition, 40 are to be assembled in India, and the remaining 100 are to be built at Tumakuru. The agreement also provides for maintenance, operations, repair and technical support.

“Rostec’s competitive advantage is that we are ready to deal with not only the localization of helicopters in India, but we also offer our partners the localization of production technology,” said Sergei Chemezov, CEO of Rostec, in a statement during Aero India 2017, India’s premier biennial airshow. Details of technology transfer being offered have yet to be revealed.

 

[TPFscopes]

Also as a tax payer i need justification why we are paying 2.5 times more for kamov.

Dear tax payers,
Don't confuse yourself with that news articles.
Let's think about a case:
If you likes to install a manufacturing unit than you not allowed to add the expenditure of land acquisition, renovation and others to the produced good.

Hope you better understand that the manufacturing facility built for manufacturing ka-226t will not get consumed after delivery of all 140 helos.
It can be utilised for another purpose.
Than how can you guys add that expenditure with the product cost.

 

[xeaaex]

Dear tax payers,
Don't confuse yourself with that news articles.
Let's think about a case:
If you likes to install a manufacturing unit than you not allowed to add the expenditure of land acquisition, renovation and others to the produced good.

Hope you better understand that the manufacturing facility built for manufacturing ka-226t will not get consumed after delivery of all 140 helos.
It can be utilised for another purpose.
Than how can you guys add that expenditure with the product cost.

There is a big uncertainty of *can be utilised* in your statement and most of the investors dont like long term uncertainty which in our our case is true.

Still i wouldn't want to pay 2.5 times for an helicopter of which i am sure we are mot getting full tot.

Instead i would go for a locally developed product, plus hal has proven its metal in helicopter development and manufacturing, so we can trust hal on this one.

 

[TPFscopes]

There is a big uncertainty of *can be utilised* in your statement and most of the investors dont like long term uncertainty which in our our case is true.

Plz do some sensible calculation and again think about it.
After the completion of deliveries the Production lines can be used for HAL IMRH (it will take atleast 8 years for serial production) or any other future projects.
HAL is a good growing company , it will not going to shut down its operational production lines.
Be optimistic bro