Friends have let us down whenever the chips have been down,” Lt. Gen. Chand

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speaking at the inaugural session of AMICON 2017, a two-day conference organised by the Army and the CII. He noted that having indigenous industrialcapability is very crucial for the country. Hefurther cautioned that in an event of a war,one has to look abroad for its sustenance.“And very often, friends have let us downwhenever the chips have been down,” Lt. Gen. Chandobserved. He said the ‘Make in India’programme, the Defence Procurement Policy 2016, the strategic partnership model, and the creation of the Army Design Bureau (ADB), are major steps taken by the government for fast-tracking indigenisation in the sector.

http://idrw.org/pakistani-defence-i...s-indian-army-vice-chief-lt-gen-sarath-chand/ .
 

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any idea , what vcoas is reffering to ??
 
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roma

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speaking at the inaugural session of AMICON 2017, a two-day conference organised by the Army and the CII. He noted that having indigenous industrialcapability is very crucial for the country. Hefurther cautioned that in an event of a war,one has to look abroad for its sustenance.“And very often, friends have let us downwhenever the chips have been down,” Lt. Gen. Chandobserved. He said the ‘Make in India’programme, the Defence Procurement Policy 2016, the strategic partnership model, and the creation of the Army Design Bureau (ADB), are major steps taken by the government for fast-tracking indigenisation in the sector.
http://idrw.org/pakistani-defence-i...s-indian-army-vice-chief-lt-gen-sarath-chand/ .
i am astounded that he should even be talking about getting help from friends ...... AFTER 70 YEARS OF INDEPENDENCE ? .... except that we were ruled by congis and italians !!!!!

so really by now we should procure beofre hand and build up logistics ...... to avoid the hilarious situation where we have the equipment but not the ammo !!!!!!

also we need the indegenous manufacturing industry .... and as defence is wider than just guns we also need the necessary manufacturing so that we dont have to give china 50 billion annual trade surplus --- becos that is a defence issue as well although it doezxnt come dressed in a uniform !!!

so its a great thing that the ADB has been created ...now it shoudl also monitor consumer industry otherwise we are doing the foolish thing of putting 10 locks on the fron t door and leaving the back door open to the thief !!! no how smart is that ???

for the world's third largest economy to depend on foreign weaponary is a matter of national shame. No point blaming others .
absolutely ! ....this is not about blaming or not laming friends .....this is about being incompetent or are we a capable society ??
 

Hiranyaksha

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If your friends are letting you down when you need them most then you have very poor choice of friends.
 

nongaddarliberal

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I don't understand why we don't stock up on ammunition. If we can induct so many new weapons, what's the problem with buying ammo? As @gpawar said, if they have enough money to buy 400 new T90 SM's, why the hell don't they buy ammo for the already existing T90's? Do the planners (whoever the fuck they are) not understand the concept of "priority"?
 

Cutting Edge 2

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Let me fix it:

"And very often DRDO, HAL, OFB and other PSUs have let us down whenever the chips have been down"
 

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i am astounded that he should even be talking about getting help from friends ...... AFTER 70 YEARS OF INDEPENDENCE ? .... except that we were ruled by congis and italians !!!!!

so really by now we should procure beofre hand and build up logistics ...... to avoid the hilarious situation where we have the equipment but not the ammo !!!!!!

also we need the indegenous manufacturing industry .... and as defence is wider than just guns we also need the necessary manufacturing so that we dont have to give china 50 billion annual trade surplus --- becos that is a defence issue as well although it doezxnt come dressed in a uniform !!!

so its a great thing that the ADB has been created ...now it shoudl also monitor consumer industry otherwise we are doing the foolish thing of putting 10 locks on the fron t door and leaving the back door open to the thief !!! no how smart is that ???



absolutely ! ....this is not about blaming or not laming friends .....this is about being incompetent or are we a capable society ??
don't US need support in iraq , afgsnistan , libya , syria........but point is they get it when they ask for !!!
 

Krusty

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Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

The ultimate blame lies only with us. We have gotten so used to kickbacks and resort to imports. And when shit hits the fan, businessmen jack up the prices we have to pay to get arms. And we are left looking like a fool without options thanks to kickback loving so called 'public servants'. It's business 101, why put blame on 'friends'. There ARE no friends. Even Israel sold ammo to us at jacked up prices during Kargil.

Blame the people who will even sell their mothers for kickbacks
 
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HariPrasad-1

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Might be Russians. Israel too supplied us but at very costly prices.

But in general for world's third largest economy to depend on foreign weaponary is a matter of national shame. No point blaming others .
Russia has given us weapon much more cheaper than what we could produce locally. This is the reason navy rejected NAVAL LCA.
 

Bornubus

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The cost of satellite data sold by some "friendly" nation is 15 - 30 thousand per frame.

Whereas Russia KLPD India, refusing critical tech such as Gun barrels and Smerch. T series tank still use old and near obsolete Tank ammunition 3BM 42 "Mango"


Meanwhile for China and Pak


images.jpg



images.jpg
 
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IndianHawk

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Russia has given us weapon much more cheaper than what we could produce locally. This is the reason navy rejected NAVAL LCA.
That would be true if navy goes for a Russian plane instead of LCA. By the looks of it navy will go for Rafale M or f35B
 

Kunal Biswas

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Israeli let us down during Kargil war when they sold us super expensive satalitle photos which were outdated by 2-5 years, IA asked ISRO after war and was delivered within a year ..

Their are plenty of things goes dud and mostly imported let it missile or ammunition for rifles which i have personally seen first hand, Know about what you are talking ..

Russian and east block equipment are mostly malfunction or duds ..

Let me fix it:

"And very often DRDO, HAL, OFB and other PSUs have let us down whenever the chips have been down"
Russia has given us weapon much more cheaper than what we could produce locally. This is the reason navy rejected NAVAL LCA.
 

mayfair

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As @Kunal Biswas pointed out, Israelis and South Africans both squeezed our lemons in Kargil for sat pics and ammo.

Russia has been denying us critical tech in Tanks and rockets and also seekers. Sold us a half-baked aircraft carrier with an even less baked lemon of a plane...

French have charged us obscene prices for planes, upgrades and weapons systems...

Boeing handed us a lemon in the form of rusted outdated wind tunnel as the part of offsets for the C17 deal...

See the pattern?
 

Hiranyaksha

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As @Kunal Biswas pointed out, Israelis and South Africans both squeezed our lemons in Kargil for sat pics and ammo.

Russia has been denying us critical tech in Tanks and rockets and also seekers. Sold us a half-baked aircraft carrier with an even less baked lemon of a plane...

French have charged us obscene prices for planes, upgrades and weapons systems...

Boeing handed us a lemon in the form of rusted outdated wind tunnel as the part of offsets for the C17 deal...

See the pattern?
And I don't know why we still want to align ourselves with such "friends" . I think NSA Ajit Doval conveyed similar message to China that we have independent foreign policy. That is why things have cooled down.
 

Hari Sud

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The general has to be more knowledgeable as he is position of power and knowledge. But if he has opened his mouth too wide then he need to be schooled in better understanding our side. If he refuses. Graceful retirement is way out.

Inddia's manufacturing sector in not behind Pakistan except Pakistanis have upgraded their Wah factory only recently. There is no other miniltary hardware manufacturing in pakistan. As soon as Indian military places order for large number of new rifles, then Ishapore factory see modernization. Same is true at other places. If we keep imports up hoping that money will drop from heavens and all military factories will be upgraded, then our military also need a lesson in economics.
 

roma

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If your friends are letting you down when you need them most then you have very poor choice of friends.
didnt gandhi aim for self -reliane ?
so the question is :- ...how did we get into a position where we became vulnerable to be let down in the first place ?
shouldnt we avoid such situations ?

Cant help commenting on this. IA generals probably must remind themselves same
I don't understand why we don't stock up on ammunition. If we can induct so many new weapons, what's the problem with buying ammo ? ?
the problem is the quality of management and the depths of our corruption
solve those two , or rather address those two issues and thigs will change tremendously

DRDO, HAL, OFB and other PSUs have let us down whenever the chips have been down"
so it is ourselves we need to look at and improve , not really our friends .....it comes back to us agains, as always

The ultimate blame lies only with us. We have gotten so used to kickbacks and resort to imports. And when shit hits the fan, businessmen jack up the prices we have to pay to get arms. And we are left looking like a fool without options s
you abslutely hit the nail on the head .....may i add that if we avoid looking at thatstraight in the eyes and solve it , if we dont, it will continue to be with us and even grow larger

Russia has given us weapon much more cheaper than what we could produce locally. This is the reason navy rejected NAVAL LCA.
russian help has largely been positive with indeed some instances where it was not but overall kept us going without exorbitant costs ....let's not blame them but rather look at how we managed the realtionship

That would be true if navy goes for a Russian plane instead of LCA. By the looks of it navy will go for Rafale M or f35B
Israeli let us down during Kargil war when they sold us super expensive satalitle photos which were outdated by 2-5 years, IA asked ISRO after war and was delivered within a year .. ..
so agin it boiled down to getting our own organizations , in this case its ISRO into working order

As @Kunal Biswas pointed out, Israelis and South Africans both squeezed our lemons in Kargil for sat pics and ammo.
a country that put a verhicle in orbit round mars on first try unlikek others, ubfortunately can manufacture enpugh ammo for the guns !! ??????

And I don't know why we still want to align ourselves with such "friends" . I think NSA Ajit Doval conveyed similar message to China that we have independent foreign policy. That is why things have cooled down.
A doval is a genius ...he has a brian like almost no one else if ever seen ...no one else has a brain l.like ajit doval ....he solved the rpoblem
and we should get him and a few others llike him eh samnjay pitchay , nadewal of google etc to get serious tto solve our silly problems like lack of ammo .....instessad negwaçl and puuicchay are workng for others !!!! bleahhhhh !!!

don't US need support in iraq , afgsnistan , libya , syria........but point is they get it when they ask for !!!
thannks for your post
to me , the real issue here is not friends but rather DEPENDENCE - and more accurately dependece on otheres in issues which we have no business being in such a position in the first plae ....if our nation after 70 yrs of independece is depending on others for teething peoblems , diaper issues - we should have grown up and grown out of those problems but we are still facing diaper issues like insufficiesnt ammo ....i means is this some sort of bugs bumnny show or whayt

and i thinik congi put us there and the uninformed and uneducated classes in idnai alllwed congi to put us there

now the uneduacted classes have ecome slightly more educated and so the y are voting les for congi and more for BJ ..... so things will change and maybe we should do all we can to speed pp that change
 

Khagesh

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The cost of satellite data sold by some "friendly" nation is 15 - 30 thousand per frame.

Whereas Russia KLPD India, refusing critical tech such as Gun barrels and Smerch. T series tank still use old and near obsolete Tank ammunition 3BM 42 "Mango"
Ok this is a conclusion somebody has reached. Now starting from hereon what do you think India should be doing. 1) Carry on R&D in areas that can be achieved; or
2) Carry on R&D in areas that are likely to be denied.

Now what are they actually doing. Rather what is the Government actually asking R&D people to do.

Have we started on the difficult portions of AMCA for example are are we just waiting for Fake in India?

Reaching a conclusion is a KLPD if it does not shows a path to the future.

Why do you think we have our nukes and ballistic missiles completed.

Jeh India ka kalyug hai bhaijaan. Yahan Deshbhakt hi desh ko daga dega.


Meanwhile for China and Pak
What about China. They bought everything upfront but only in areas their R&D people knew they can save time to work on more difficult, denied items.

Only idiots and sell outs decry the chinese for copying stuff. China has bailed out Russia and USA so many times with real money, several times bigger than what we have paid. Can India match the trillions of dollars held by China in US currency. Can we bail out Russia with 400 billion USD Oil deals just when Russian Oil is being sanctioned.

Now if you cannot do all this while at the same time competing with the Russians and the Americans then really you have no fcuking locu standi to ask for help.
 

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