F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

airstrike99

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Wait what!? WTH is a surface detection radar? All this time I thought SAR or GMTI modes in an AESA are good enough. What is the difference?
i exactly don't remember the terminology. it might be synthetic aperture radar. as you mentioned SAR.

dedicated SAR is much better than AESA used in ground tracking mode.
 

Okabe Rintarou

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i exactly don't remember the terminology. it might be synthetic aperture radar. as you mentioned SAR.

dedicated SAR is much better than AESA used in ground tracking mode.
Yeah, but I think dedicated SAR is only present in a few aerial platforms such as the JSTARS. I think (although not sure now) most fighter jets use their primary AESA radar in SAR mode to map the ground. Maybe it has something to do with the Band in which these radars operate and some finer points on optimization that lead dedicated SAR to be better than AESA SAR modes.
 

omaebakabaka

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if its flying low enough, it can be destroyed very easily.

they just made it possible for F-22 to fire SD bombs and JDA munitions just in case.

but the fact is it will never be used for ground attack role.
I am pretty sure it wont fly that low but if it did then yes its possible in theory, even an f-16 doesn't have a record of getting shot down from ak like guns if I am not mistaken....you are correct, US wont use f22 in that role unless its desperate in any particular situation. It is made for air to air
 

omaebakabaka

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Yeah, but I think dedicated SAR is only present in a few aerial platforms such as the JSTARS. I think (although not sure now) most fighter jets use their primary AESA radar in SAR mode to map the ground. Maybe it has something to do with the Band in which these radars operate and some finer points on optimization that lead dedicated SAR to be better than AESA SAR modes.
I think it may need some on ground configuration change for air to surface missions to the radar to carry gbu type armament?
 

Okabe Rintarou

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I think it may need some on ground configuration change for air to surface missions to the radar to carry gbu type armament?
But in fighters that configuration change is done with the flick of a switch. Its more of a processing problem, filtering out the noise, etc. Yeah fighter jet AESA might not be optimized for SAR imaging, but will still be able to do a reasonably good job.
In fact, as far as I understand the theory of it, AESA should allow both modes to work simultaneously because each TRM module is independent, so half the radar can be scanning the skies while the other half is acting like a SAR. But I am not sure, I'll read some more about it tomorrow to understand it.
 

airstrike99

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But in fighters that configuration change is done with the flick of a switch. Its more of a processing problem, filtering out the noise, etc. Yeah fighter jet AESA might not be optimized for SAR imaging, but will still be able to do a reasonably good job.
In fact, as far as I understand the theory of it, AESA should allow both modes to work simultaneously because each TRM module is independent, so half the radar can be scanning the skies while the other half is acting like a SAR. But I am not sure, I'll read some more about it tomorrow to understand it.
true. but while using AESA in SAR mode, it doesn't tract air targets anymore. not even partially.
so, if there is indeed a ground strike to be performed, why send F-22's , with some in ground confg and some for air to air?
they will pretty much send F-22's in air-air and f-15's for air to ground confg together.
or f-35's instead of f-15's if stealth ground attack is required.
 

omaebakabaka

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But in fighters that configuration change is done with the flick of a switch. Its more of a processing problem, filtering out the noise, etc. Yeah fighter jet AESA might not be optimized for SAR imaging, but will still be able to do a reasonably good job.
In fact, as far as I understand the theory of it, AESA should allow both modes to work simultaneously because each TRM module is independent, so half the radar can be scanning the skies while the other half is acting like a SAR. But I am not sure, I'll read some more about it tomorrow to understand it.
Ya, not clear exactly but I remember reading in "preparation" for air to ground missions.....so assuming there may be some optimizations on the ground but perhaps not. AESA by definition is supposed to be switch friendly
 

StealthFlanker

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i exactly don't remember the terminology. it might be synthetic aperture radar. as you mentioned SAR.

dedicated SAR is much better than AESA used in ground tracking mode.
Modern fighter radar can operate in SAR mode to produce very high resolution image
SAR 1.PNG

SAR4.PNG



Comparison between IIR image and image produced by SAR mode:
SAR 2.PNG

SAR 3.PNG


Furthermore, target are cued automatically based on their unique electronic signature
ATC.PNG

ATC2.PNG
 

omaebakabaka

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Modern fighter radar can operate in SAR mode to produce very high resolution image
View attachment 90289
View attachment 90293


Comparison between IIR image and image produced by SAR mode:
View attachment 90290
View attachment 90291

Furthermore, target are cued automatically based on their unique electronic signature
View attachment 90294
View attachment 90295
So why is F-22 mostly categorized as air to air superiority fighter, ofcourse armaments is one aspect but radar is fully capable and so are engines and other aspects
 

StealthFlanker

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So why is F-22 mostly categorized as air to air superiority fighter, ofcourse armaments is one aspect but radar is fully capable and so are engines and other aspects
because:
1- F-22 use a low bypass engine (F-119), which is good for speed, but in term of fuel consumption, it is terrible compared to high bypass engine such as F-135. For air to ground role, you generally prefered loiter time and combat radius over speed. Since it kinda not possible to out run or out accelerate a massive SAM, and important target can be deep inside enemy territories
2- F-22 lack dedicated FLIR system, several type of air to ground weapon require you to have a FLIR such as laser guided weapon like GBU-12 or APKWS. They aren't the only type of weapon for air to ground role but they are very cheap and also the most popular.
3- F-22 weapon bay is wide but not deep enough to carry big or long range air to ground weapon. You can put a JSM (550 km range) inside an F-35 but you can't do the same to F-22.
 

omaebakabaka

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because:
1- F-22 use a low bypass engine (F-119), which is good for speed, but in term of fuel consumption, it is terrible compared to high bypass engine such as F-135. For air to ground role, you generally prefered loiter time and combat radius over speed. Since it kinda not possible to out run or out accelerate a massive SAM, and important target can be deep inside enemy territories
2- F-22 lack dedicated FLIR system, several type of air to ground weapon require you to have a FLIR such as laser guided weapon like GBU-12 or APKWS. They aren't the only type of weapon for air to ground role but they are very cheap and also the most popular.
3- F-22 weapon bay is wide but not deep enough to carry big or long range air to ground weapon. You can put a JSM (550 km range) inside an F-35 but you can't do the same to F-22.
Range is not that much different between 22 and 35 but I guess it makes a practical difference....armament wise 35 has more flexibility as you mentioned....how common is it that F-22 flies with external tanks?
 

BON PLAN

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F-35 is simply the most advanced multirole fighter currently in service. It will dominate current and future battlefields.

The only problem with it right now is sustainment cost, but which is being resolved and will be resolved given the commitment of the US and partners. Already, F-35 at less than $80M fly away cost (for the A model) is so much bang for the buck since at this price level it's even cheaper than some generational oldies 4th and 4.5th gen fighters.

Here's a good video on its unique EOTS, just one of its highly advanced sensors:

No, sustainment cost is no the sole issue.
15 years after first preserial flight it is only IOC, and a political IOC only.
Standard after standard the release of a full spec aircraft is pushed back.
The plane is not agile, not affordable not supercruising as promoted by LM at the beginning. It is a costly communication node, a task a USAV can easily do for less monney.

The whole programm is too big to fail, with the US forces will never purchase the intended numbers, and a replacement bird is already on the drawing board. Not to speak of the F15EX purchase, and it is rumored that a F16 bk72-80 deal is in the air.

Congrats LM !
 

BON PLAN

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does it have a dedicated surface detection radar or just the standard AESA radar turned towards ground to produce low resolution tracking of ground targets?

if its the second case, its pretty much a lemon for ground attack role.

why use 5 th gen pocket burning machine when going for ground attack. also its structure & body is said to be fragile than a woman's heart. :troll:

a couple 7.62 mm rounds from AK series and its done.
With the new guided bombs, it is a potent plane to destroy non moving target, as SAM, communication center, power supply etc...
It is not dedicated for CAS for exemple. It's only a second role.
 

Dark Sorrow

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f-22 can't do ground strikes. f-35 can.
does it have a dedicated surface detection radar or just the standard AESA radar turned towards ground to produce low resolution tracking of ground targets?
The APG-77v1 was installed on F-22 Raptors can provide full air-to-ground functionality (high-resolution synthetic aperture radar mapping, ground moving target indication and track (GMTI/GMTT), automatic cueing and recognition and combat identification.
In modern multi-role you don't find a dedicated surface detection radar. Radars are reconfigured by software for a particular role they are needed to perform.
In of the primary advantage of an AESA radar is you can operate a radar in multiple modes (and depending on level of sophistication even simultaneously).
 

BON PLAN

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Difference in the aerodynamics of the 2 planes. All is said by one pic.


Capture.PNG
 

BON PLAN

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Difference in the aerodynamics of the 2 planes. Another pic.

1621516199923.png


one is a pretty ballet dancer, the other a heavy folk dance dancer
 

BON PLAN

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Air Force Could Ditch Oldest F-35 Jets as Part of Fighter Downsizing, General Says


"the block that is coming off the line right now is not a block that I feel good about going up against China and Russia," Hinote said, referring to the current Block 3F software and hardware configuration.

The Pentagon originally estimated Block 4 modernization could be incorporated by 2024, but the project timeline has been delayed until at least 2027, according to an assessment from the Government Availability Office.

CNN reported that some Air Force officials have expressed a desire to cap the total number of F-35s in inventory, reducing a projected procurement of 1,763 of the conventional takeoff and landing A-variant to 800 maximum to make room for NGAD.
:pound::pound::pound:
 

Lonewolf

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Air Force Could Ditch Oldest F-35 Jets as Part of Fighter Downsizing, General Says


"the block that is coming off the line right now is not a block that I feel good about going up against China and Russia," Hinote said, referring to the current Block 3F software and hardware configuration.

The Pentagon originally estimated Block 4 modernization could be incorporated by 2024, but the project timeline has been delayed until at least 2027, according to an assessment from the Government Availability Office.

CNN reported that some Air Force officials have expressed a desire to cap the total number of F-35s in inventory, reducing a projected procurement of 1,763 of the conventional takeoff and landing A-variant to 800 maximum to make room for NGAD.
:pound::pound::pound:
@BON PLAN convicted for hate crime against f 35 ,a minority fighter in usaf (not actually ,just incompetent ) , spread love not hate .
 

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