F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

[asianobserve]

F-22 is stationed in Alaska to stop Russian strategic bombers... there is no other reason.



The F-35 can't even keep more than a third of its aircraft available... that is called a maintenance turd just like its maintenance software. Most of its fusion sensors don't even work, that is why it is called IOC.

That because Alaska is the closes from Russia to US. So naturally F-22 will get deployed there. But F-22s are also deployed on rotation to other parts of US, Europe, Asia and the ME. So the F-22 will be wherever and whenever it is needed.

Re F-35, ALIS is already maturing. F-35 is not yet there as a whole program. But squadrons of F-35s can already be used for combat against anything and any enemy. It's just that a lot other F-35s, especially the older ones, need to wait for parts and upgrades. But by 2023 more or less the F-35 as a whole will be on par with current fighters if not better in terms of readiness as a whole force.

 

[Armand2REP]

That because Alaska is the closes from Russia to US. So naturally F-22 will get deployed there. But F-22s are also deployed on rotation to other parts of US, Europe, Asia and the ME. So the F-22 will be wherever and whenever it is needed.

F-22 is stationed in Alaska because it is needed to intercept Russian bombers, something F-35 can't do.

Re F-35, ALIS is already maturing. F-35 is not yet there as a whole program. But squadrons of F-35s can already be used for combat against anything and any enemy. It's just that a lot other F-35s, especially the older ones, need to wait for parts and upgrades. But by 2023 more or less the F-35 as a whole will be on par with current fighters if not better in terms of readiness as a whole force.

FYI, ALIS is being scrapped for a completely new architecture.

 

[Wisemarko]

All this will happen only when they are within 10km of each other.
F35 isn't made for gunning, it'll avoid this fight and is well equipped to do that with its stealth, LPI radar, EOTS( that'll visually locate EF2k at longer distance than itself being detected by EF2k radar)
In BVR, Luftwaffe be like 'Verdammt, we couldn't even see where they were'.

Yup..Pointless to discuss WVR scenarios when the core strength of F 35 is in BVR.

 

[StealthFlanker]

It only becomes that after they have been busted. They are attempting to see if they can reach launch point before they are detected. They aren't taking off in a nuclear bomber for a joy ride.

You think a bomber with RCS value of hundred square meters can approach undetected? not gonna happen. The role of those actions are literally peace time provoking and nothing more. You know what else is often used in these role? Tu-95

And yet the USAF has a dedicated aircraft for this mission called the F-22 stationed in Alaska. Clearly the F-35 is not capable as demonstrated by Japan.

Well no, F-22 are air superiority fighter that US has in Alaska, but that doesn't mean you need them specifically for this task. In fact, any thing can escort these Tu-160

 

[Armand2REP]

You think a bomber with RCS value of hundred square meters can approach undetected? not gonna happen. The role of those actions are literally peace time provoking and nothing more. You know what else is often used in these role? Tu-95

Tu-160 does not have the RCS of a B-52, it is similar to a Flanker in RCS values. Only France has the capability to detect these aircraft with the use of Nostradamus to direct NATO to intercept them before they reach launch point. It is far too expensive to keep AWACs up 365 days a year.

Well no, F-22 are air superiority fighter that US has in Alaska, but that doesn't mean you need them specifically for this task. In fact, any thing can escort these Tu-160

Well no, the F-35 can't even do what 3rd generation aircraft can do as it's stealth coating melts at supersonic speeds. The best aircraft for the mission are ones that can supercruise like F-22 and Rafale. Tu-160 can technically supercruise at Mach 1.1 but that is still in the transonic regime and creates too much drag to make it an efficient cruise speed. They will ply on a bit of afterburner so any aircraft that can't supercruise will quickly run out of fuel trying to keep up with them. That is why the escort missions are handed off from one nation to the next. F-22 and Rafale are the only ones that can escort them for their entire stint in NATO airspace. An F-16 running afterburner is not going to be up there very long.

 

[StealthFlanker]

Tu-160 does not have the RCS of a B-52, it is similar to a Flanker in RCS values. Only France has the capability to detect these aircraft with the use of Nostradamus to direct NATO to intercept them before they reach launch point. It is far too expensive to keep AWACs up 365 days a year.

Tu-160 will have RCS bigger than Flanker since it is a bigger aircraft with no particular RCS reduction measure.
France is not the only country with OTH radar. US, Australia, UK also has their own OTH radar such as FPS-118, TPS-71, Jindalee, PLUTO II. US can also track Tu-160 by SPY-1 . There is zero chance that it can approach undetected with or without Nostradamus

Well no, the F-35 can't even do what 3rd generation aircraft can do as it's stealth coating melts at supersonic speeds. The best aircraft for the mission are ones that can supercruise like F-22 and Rafale. Tu-160 can technically supercruise at Mach 1.1 but that is still in the transonic regime and creates too much drag to make it an efficient cruise speed. They will ply on a bit of afterburner so any aircraft that can't supercruise will quickly run out of fuel trying to keep up with them. That is why the escort missions are handed off from one nation to the next. F-22 and Rafale are the only ones that can escort them for their entire stint in NATO airspace. An F-16 running afterburner is not going to be up there very long.

Well no, you are referring to coating damage on F-35B and C when they flew at Mach 1.4 for flutter testing, that issue happened only once despite countless tries to replicate the issue, furthermore, the new coating, which was introduced in Lot 8, allows the jet to withstand hotter temperatures caused by the afterburner. So to pretend like that still an issue is intellectually dishonest.
It is also irrelevant whether Tu-160 can supercruise or not, it is a strategic bomber that can carry over 130 tons of fuel and can maintain Mach 1.5 for over 4000 km. To think that any fighter whether it is F-22 or Rafale can compete in the contest of endurance with Tu-160 is frankly laughable, it will never happen, not in a million years. To think a fighter can run a strategic bomber out of fuel is the equivalent of thinking a Desert eagle can have better penetration than Mark 7 Cannon.

 

[Armand2REP]

Tu-160 will have RCS bigger than Flanker since it is a bigger aircraft with no particular RCS reduction measure.
France is not the only country with OTH radar. US, Australia, UK also has their own OTH radar such as FPS-118, TPS-71, Jindalee, PLUTO II. US can also track Tu-160 by SPY-1 . There is zero chance that it can approach undetected with or without Nostradamus

France is the only country in Europe with an intercontinental OTH. The UK does not have one on its national territory, only one on Cyprus operated by the US and it is nowhere near Nostradamus in capability. Nostradamus can track the entire flight of a Tu-160 taking off from its base on the Kola Peninsula and back again. There is nothing else.

Hahahaha... comparing SPY-1 to Nostradamus, don't make me laugh. There is nothing on station 365 days a year to monitor Europe accept Nostradamus. It is the pillar of NATO strategic defence.

Well no, you are referring to coating damage on F-35B and C when they flew at Mach 1.4 for flutter testing, that issue happened only once despite countless tries to replicate the issue, furthermore, the new coating, which was introduced in Lot 8, allows the jet to withstand hotter temperatures caused by the afterburner. So to pretend like that still an issue is intellectually dishonest.
It is also irrelevant whether Tu-160 can supercruise or not, it is a strategic bomber that can carry over 130 tons of fuel and can maintain Mach 1.5 for over 4000 km. To think that any fighter whether it is F-22 or Rafale can compete in the contest of endurance with Tu-160 is frankly laughable, it will never happen, not in a million years. To think a fighter can run a strategic bomber out of fuel is the equivalent of thinking a Desert eagle can have better penetration than Mark 7 Cannon.

Well no, I am referring to the flight restrictions placed on all F-35s. None of them are allowed to use sustained afterburner including the A model. These restrictions are still in place so it would be intellectually dishonest to pretend like the problem has been fixed.

It is also irrelevant to cite what a Tu-160 can sustain for 4000km when their mission demands they fly twice that far. 80% of their mission is conducted at subsonic speed and 20% supersonic when entering and exiting the hostile airspace. It is only that 20% of their flight profile that NATO fighters will be intercepting them and where that supercruise becomes critical.

When a Tu-160 only has 20% of its flight time saved for supersonic speeds, it is not hard to make them run out with the range of a supercruising F-22 or Rafale. You are forgetting all of the fuel it takes to get them there and back to Russia, they don't have that to play with. It is just a small reserve they have for escape. It is time you review the meaning of Bingo fuel because going around in circles is not getting you anywhere.

 

[StealthFlanker]

France is the only country in Europe with an intercontinental OTH. The UK does not have one on its national territory, only one on Cyprus operated by the US and it is nowhere near Nostradamus in capability. Nostradamus can track the entire flight of a Tu-160 taking off from its base on the Kola Peninsula and back again. There is nothing else.

How exactly do you know Cobra shoe performance to even conclude that it is nowhere near Nostradamus???. there is no information whatsoever about its capability, if taking Cobra mist as a reference point, then Cobra shoe station in Cyprus can easily compete with Nostradamus given that it can detect aircraft from 2000 nm.
Nevertheless, US themselves has plenty of OTH radar such as TPS-71, FPS-118, FPS-112, WARF..etc. And frankly, even without OTH radar, aircraft such as Tu-160 can still be detected by normal radar, so it definitely not approach undetected by any mean.

Hahahaha... comparing SPY-1 to Nostradamus, don't make me laugh. There is nothing on station 365 days a year to monitor Europe accept Nostradamus. It is the pillar of NATO strategic defence

The tracking range of SPY-1 is only 550 km compare to 3000 km of Nostradamus and it can't see over the horizon. However, SPY-1 is significantly more accurate, it can guided missiles to engage threats and it doesn't have the 1000-1600 km blind zone radius like Nostradamus. Current SPY-1 ashore, TPY-1 and Sea base -X band are the pillar of strategic defense because unlike Nostradamus, they are capable of guiding missile

Well no, I am referring to the flight restrictions placed on all F-35s. None of them are allowed to use sustained afterburner including the A model. These restrictions are still in place so it would be intellectually dishonest to pretend like the problem has been fixed.

Well no, the restriction was never put on F-35A, it would be intellectually dishonest to pretend that it was and ignore the fact that the incident only happened once on B/C version and the fact that they also have a new thermal coating since lot 8

However, the documents obtained by Defense News reported that heat from afterburner exhaust caused an F-35B to experience “bubbling and blistering” of its radar-absorbent materials (RAM) and of its horizontal tail surfaces and boom.

Heat damage also “compromised the structural integrity” of the horizontal tail and boom of an F-35C. Sensitive sensors buried inside the skin of the rear tail surfaces could also have proven susceptible to damage.

Since the incident, the Marines have instituted a policy requiring F-35B pilots not to engage afterburners for more than eighty seconds cumulatively at Mach 1.3, or forty seconds at Mach 1.4. Navy F-35C pilots have fifty seconds at Mach 1.3 to ration.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/f-35-might-not-be-able-fly-desert-94081

It is also irrelevant to cite what a Tu-160 can sustain for 4000km when their mission demands they fly twice that far. 80% of their mission is conducted at subsonic speed and 20% supersonic when entering and exiting the hostile airspace. It is only that 20% of their flight profile that NATO fighters will be intercepting them and where that supercruise becomes critical.

When a Tu-160 only has 20% of its flight time saved for supersonic speeds, it is not hard to make them run out with the range of a supercruising F-22 or Rafale. You are forgetting all of the fuel it takes to get them there and back to Russia, they don't have that to play with. It is just a small reserve they have for escape. It is time you review the meaning of Bingo fuel because going around in circles is not getting you anywhere.

Tu-160 can fly over 12000 km in subsonic speed, when it is not near hostile air space, it doesn't need to use supersonic speed either, and it can also be refueled with tankers just before entering hostile air space, so again there is literally zero chance that Rafale or F-22 can run it to bingo fuel. Heck, even 20% of 4000 km is still 800 km whereas even F-22 only included about 100 nm supercruise dash as part of its mission. Nevermind the fact that Tu-160 can fly 4000 km at Mach 1.5 whereas Rafale only demonstrated supercruise at Mach 1.4 so in fact, Rafale still have to use afterburner to keep up with Tu-160, which make itself run out of fuel even quicker if it wants to challenge the Strategic bomber in the contest of endurance

 

[Immanuel]

France is the only country in Europe with an intercontinental OTH.

Nigga please, Thule J outclasses anything in France

https://www.patrick.af.mil/News/Art...for-thule-radar-unifies-missile-shield-sites/

Range over 2500NM

 

[Armand2REP]

Nigga please, Thule J outclasses anything in France

https://www.patrick.af.mil/News/Art...for-thule-radar-unifies-missile-shield-sites/

Range over 2500NM

Nigga please, that isn't OTH, that is for detecting ballistic missiles in space. OTH requires the signal to bounce off of the atmosphere so you can look down over the horizon.

 

[Armand2REP]

How exactly do you know Cobra shoe performance to even conclude that it is nowhere near Nostradamus???. there is no information whatsoever about its capability, if taking Cobra mist as a reference point, then Cobra shoe station in Cyprus can easily compete with Nostradamus given that it can detect aircraft from 2000 nm.
Nevertheless, US themselves has plenty of OTH radar such as TPS-71, FPS-118, FPS-112, WARF..etc. And frankly, even without OTH radar, aircraft such as Tu-160 can still be detected by normal radar, so it definitely not approach undetected by any mean.

It is good that you can Google a history image, the problem is your information is 50 years out of date. Cobra Mist AN/FPS-95 opened in 1972 and closed in 1973. They never could get rid of the background noise and never put it into operational use. Those towers are used to broadcast BBC radio.

The US has plenty of OTH radars... in the US. They have one in Cyprus looking at the ME and Southern Russia, Nostradamus is the only one monitoring Northern Russia where Tu-160s are launching from.

The tracking range of SPY-1 is only 550 km compare to 3000 km of Nostradamus and it can't see over the horizon. However, SPY-1 is significantly more accurate, it can guided missiles to engage threats and it doesn't have the 1000-1600 km blind zone radius like Nostradamus. Current SPY-1 ashore, TPY-1 and Sea base -X band are the pillar of strategic defense because unlike Nostradamus, they are capable of guiding missile

Which is why the Russians fly their bombers well out of the range of LOS radars. Nostradamus is the only one that can see into the Barents Sea where they skirt the edge of conventional radars of the Scandinavian countries. I don't know of any shore based SPY-1 sitting on a small frozen island that can monitor that far. Aegis destroyers certainly don't sit up there on a regular basis.

 

[Immanuel]

Nigga please, that isn't OTH, that is for detecting ballistic missiles in space. OTH requires the signal to bounce off of the atmosphere so you can look down over the horizon.

Bitch please the OTH radars in the US have ranges if over 3000km ranges.

 

[asianobserve]

The American AN/FPS-118 Over-The-Horizon-Backscatter (OTH-B) Radar has a range of 926-3334 kms thrumps France's Nostradamus which has a much lower range of 800-3000 kms.

China is claiming that its newer Skywave OTH radar has a range of 1000-4000 kms. But is this not the product of CCP Math much like how it co.putes its GDP?

 

[Armand2REP]

The American AN/FPS-118 Over-The-Horizon-Backscatter (OTH-B) Radar has a range of 926-3334 kms thrumps France's Nostradamus which has a much lower range of 800-3000 kms.

Actually Nostradamus has detected Chinese missile launches 5500km away, it is unmatched in performance.

 

[asianobserve]

Actually Nostradamus has detected Chinese missile launches 5500km away, it is unmatched in performance.

Maybe these sre deflated figures and the real range are much grester. But there has already been dtudies or thesis conducted on these OTH radars snd some of the results are as what I have quoted. If that's the case then the range of AN/FPS 118 is also underdeclared (the US is known to underdeclare the capabilities of their weapkns sustems.

 

[Armand2REP]

Maybe these sre deflated figures and the real range are much grester. But there has already been dtudies or thesis conducted on these OTH radars snd some of the results are as what I have quoted. If that's the case then the range of AN/FPS 118 is also underdeclared (the US is known to underdeclare the capabilities of their weapkns sustems.

Nostradamus has detected a flight of B-2 stealth bombers over Kosovo so all of its capabilities were not advertised. It is a strategic asset of the highest calibre.

 

[asianobserve]

Nostradamus has detected a flight of B-2 stealth bombers over Kosovo so all of its capabilities were not advertised. It is a strategic asset of the highest calibre.

Low frequency OTH rsdar may be able to detect stealth but it cannot give precise coordinates to offer a targetting solution.

And no doubt Nostradamus is imoressive but it is not the best OTH radsr. As I ssid even older US AN/FPS 118 have greatrr detection range due to greater power outout.

The Chinese are very active in OTH radars development mainly through tech transfer from for USSR OTH techs. China is building ship-based giant OTH radsr but this could have been another stolen idea since Raytheon long ago slready filed a patent for a sea based very powerful OTH based on a flotilla of ships.

 

[Armand2REP]

Low frequency OTH rsdar may be able to detect stealth but it cannot give precise coordinates to offer a targetting solution.

And no doubt Nostradamus is imoressive but it is not the best OTH radsr. As I ssid even older US AN/FPS 118 have greatrr detection range due to greater power outout.

The Chinese are very active in OTH radars development mainly through tech transfer from for USSR OTH techs. China is building ship-based giant OTH radsr but this could have been another stolen idea since Raytheon long ago slready filed a patent for a sea based very powerful OTH based on a flotilla of ships.

The greatest obstacle to overcome with an OTH radar is not power output but the tracking algorithms, beam steering and filters used to make the data usable. In all regards Nostradamus is superior to anything out there, China does not compare.

 

[asianobserve]

The greatest obstacle to overcome with an OTH radar is not power output but the tracking algorithms, beam steering and filters used to make the data usable. In all regards Nostradamus is superior to anything out there, China does not compare.

Range is determined by power output. Computing power comes in at processing the data to get a clearer view. But all existing radars except perhaps those of stagnsting 3rd world countries are constsntly upgraded to enhance performance. So computer enhancements are definitely applied to US radar ( the Americans being the consumate improvers/disrupters). They'll keep on trying new things.

 

[Armand2REP]

Range is determined by power output. Computing power comes in at processing the data to get a clearer view. But all existing radars except perhaps those of stagnsting 3rd world countries are constsntly upgraded to enhance performance. So computer enhancements are definitely applied to US radar ( the Americans being the consumate improvers/disrupters). They'll keep on trying new things.

Actually Nostradamus uses low frequency, it is better for extending range as high frequency waves lose cohesion through atmospheric conditions. To make a simple analogy, it is like AM vs FM radio. AM will travel much farther at much lower power. The lastest American OTH radars uses the same principle, it is just not as large or as complex as Nostradamus. When you hear Chinese radars using VHF to detect stealth aircraft you simply have to laugh at it.