Dutch ban on halal and kosher meat

[Yusuf]

Then it changes the whole debate entirely. If the animal has been made unconscious, it won't feel pain no matter how it's killed

Well, that too for me is debatable. How do we know that when they are stunned, they don't feel any pain?

 

[Godless-Kafir]

In those days when Quran was written there was no CO2 or other means of putting an animal to sleep before killing it, now that we have better way of doing it then we should adopt. Muslims have adopted many modern methods of life style that make their lives better like modern medicine which have been tested ion pigs or made of animal parts which are not halal, most muslims are not going to be in death bed and say they wont use it because its not halal, so why the hypocrisy!

 

[Yusuf]

In those days when Quran was written there was no CO2 or other means of putting an animal to sleep before killing it, now that we have better way of doing it then we should adopt. Muslims have adopted many modern methods of life style that make their lives better like modern medicine which have been tested ion pigs or made of animal parts which are not halal, most muslims are not going to be in death bed and say they wont use it because its not halal, so why the hypocrisy!

Why CO2? Other methods of stunning are available.

Islam has laws regarding which foods can and cannot be eaten and also on the proper method of slaughtering an animal for consumption, known as dhabihah. However if there is no other food available then a Muslim is allowed to eat non-halal food. Surah 2:173 states:

If one is forced because there is no other choice, neither craving nor transgressing, there is no sin on him.

 

[Adux]

Why CO2? Other methods of stunning are available.

Islam has laws regarding which foods can and cannot be eaten and also on the proper method of slaughtering an animal for consumption, known as dhabihah. However if there is no other food available then a Muslim is allowed to eat non-halal food. Surah 2:173 states:

If one is forced because there is no other choice, neither craving nor transgressing, there is no sin on him.

Islam will have to change, There are many such old practices in Hinduism and Christianity, which they changed to keep with the times, and changing cultures of people.

 

[Adux]

Well, that too for me is debatable. How do we know that when they are stunned, they don't feel any pain?

Excuse my post Yusuf Bhai,

stun (stn)
tr.v. stunned, stun·ning, stuns
1. To daze or render senseless,

No pain, when you have no senses

 

[LurkerBaba]

Well, that too for me is debatable. How do we know that when they are stunned, they don't feel any pain?

They're being stunned and made unconscious! How can they feel pain if they're unconscious ?? !!!

 

[Yusuf]

Islam will have to change, There are many such old practices in Hinduism and Christianity, which they changed to keep with the times, and changing cultures of people.

What practice of Islam has to change? Don't point out what the loonies do which is an interpretation of convenience by them.

My sect is far more progressive and tech savvy. We have changed with the times but the beliefs are the same. Quran has everything in it. God knows how he made the world and how it's going to last. He made the Book accordingly. The Prophet was his means of getting it to us. Challenging what's written in the Quran is like challenging God.

Problem is, the interpretation on many counts. Like what the Wahabis do, the Talibunnies etc. That has to be challenged. Not the words of Quran.

 

[Yusuf]

They're being stunned and made unconscious! How can they feel pain if they're unconscious ?? !!!

I don't know the feeling of being stunned mate.

 

[Adux]

What practice of Islam has to change? Don't point out what the loonies so otherwise which is an interpretation of convenience by them.

My sect is far more progressive and tech savvy. We have changed with the times but the beliefs are the same. Quran has everything in it. God knows how he made the world and how it's going to last. He made the Book accordingly. The Prophet was his means of getting it to us. Challenging what's written in the Quran is like challenging God.

Problem is, the interpretation on many counts. Like what the Wahabis do, the Talibunnies etc. That has to be challenged. Not the words of Quran.

I dont know your religion or any religion for that matter. Like it or not. People will have to bring their religion to modern times. I think God is far kinder being, than most of you would believe. He/she/it is not going to be some egoistical maniac, who would threatened by changing the way you eat. You should all give him.her.it more credit.So many things have been challenged in Bible, Gita, Torah, though they havent changed the book, they have stopped practicing it. Being Virgin for example, lol.There is nothing sacrosanct to me, than the constitution of India. But thats me.

 

[Adux]

I don't know the feeling of being stunned mate.

Seen Rakhi Sawant speak?

 

[Yusuf]

Seen Rakhi Sawant speak?

Barely get time to watch TV, let alone Rakhi Sawant speak.

 

[Yusuf]

I dont know your religion or any religion for that matter. Like it or not. People will have to bring their religion to modern times. I think God is far kinder being, than most of you would believe. He/she/it is not going to be some egoistical maniac, who would threatened by changing the way you eat. You should all give him.her.it more credit.So many things have been challenged in Bible, Gita, Torah, though they havent changed the book, they have stopped practicing it. Being Virgin for example, lol.There is nothing sacrosanct to me, than the constitution of India. But thats me.

I am not a scholar in Islam, but if a learned guy esp from my community were to answer, he probably would tell you how Islamic teachings are in tune with the time. It's what you interpret and what you follow that makes you feel that it belongs to the 7th century. Again, Quran is the Book of God. We cannot challenge Him.

 

[Adux]

I am not a scholar in Islam, but if a learned guy esp from my community were to answer, he probably would tell you how Islamic teachings are in tune with the time. It's what you interpret and what you follow that makes you feel that it belongs to the 7th century. Again, Quran is the Book of God. We cannot challenge Him.

Internet , Mtv and liberalism will change even quran.

 

[LurkerBaba]

I don't know the feeling of being stunned mate.

You don't feel anything. Just like you don't feel anything when you get anesthesia

 

[Yusuf]

Internet , Mtv and liberalism will change even quran.

Even in times of Internet, TV so many people have gone back to the 7th century. Hell they use the same Internet for propaganda that pollutes young minds and makes them add to their numbers.

 

[Yusuf]

You don't feel anything. Just like you don't feel anything when you get anesthesia

Luckily enough I have been under anesthesia as well!!! But I get your point.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Why CO2? Other methods of stunning are available.

Islam has laws regarding which foods can and cannot be eaten and also on the proper method of slaughtering an animal for consumption, known as dhabihah. However if there is no other food available then a Muslim is allowed to eat non-halal food. Surah 2:173 states:

If one is forced because there is no other choice, neither craving nor transgressing, there is no sin on him.

These are confusing times for any body, i feel mass killing of animals is for mere pleasure of the tong is wrong, this is like having sex with an prostitute which is merely for pleasure and has nothing to do with reproduction. We no longer rely on animal meet for survivele, we go out to an restaurant to merely treat our taste buds with pleasure, to kill anaimals for such a silly reason is missing the point of why we originally needed animal to be killed, in harsh terrain where farming is difficult they may had to consume meet but now things are different we can eat vegetarian quite heartily as there is no dearth for veg food. So to mass slaughter animals for pleasure is wrong. Comparatively prostitution is harmless because nothing needs to be killed for "pleasure".

Off course this may be contrary to your belief but just putting an idea out. What does the Quran say of mass killing animals in poultry and beef farms for pleasure? Also can we do Halal at the pace of an machine cutting a chicken in an assembly line?

 

[Yusuf]

Off course this may be contrary to your belief but just putting an idea out. What does the Quran say of mass killing animals in poultry and beef farms for pleasure? Also can we do Halal at the pace of an machine cutting a chicken in an assembly line?

it is not for pleasure. It is for food.

Let me put it this way, God made humans the supreme being and gave it lordship over others. He made consumption of vegetables and animals available to us because of our superior status in this whole chain.

I don't know about mechanized system, but I think western countries have "assembly" lines for slaughter and they have Halal marked on the package.

 

[tarunraju]

I was just thinking, does this legislation ban import and sale of Halal or Kosher meat from other countries, too? If not, Dutch minorities can always import such meat from Belgium or Germany, it won't cost them much.

 

[Yusuf]

I was just thinking, does this legislation ban import and sale of Halal meat from other countries, too?

No, apparently as Ray sir posted earlier, they are already importing. But I don't know why as stunting is not going to make the meat haram.