DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Chinmoy]

I think he talked about FF in 2029 anyways the indian made F414s will undergo a long testing.

I didn't understood what u were saying.
Like by 2029 will mk2 go separately under testing with indian made engines.
If think it will come to end of its testing
4 years is alot of time

Against the mentioned post, where he said that FF of Tejas would be conducted by 2029, I mentioned that by that time it would be undergoing flight tests by IAF.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

XRSAM?

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

NewSpace

 

[Varoon2]

Again giving opinions based on clown level of understanding. Azad Engineering is making aero engine as well as auto components for foreign vendors and for DRDO for ages.

Nice. Full aero engines, or parts/ components? If they are engines, they would be for drones or things like pilotless target aircraft?

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

 

[Azaad]

This seems in line with what HVT tweeted some time back . 2-3 yrs for roll out post sanctioning of funds followed by a year of taxi trials post which we'd have the FF. CMD HAL seems to have truncated the taxi trial period to 6 months.

Assuming Mar '26 as date of FF , we can expect FOC by 2031-32 & full production to commence by 2032-33 with a lag of 1 year for delays which again seems to be as per the production schedule of HAL for the entire lot of 180 nos Mk-1a which is due to end by 2032-33.

A few points on the mfg & MLU facilities of HAL in the wake of the alarming fall in our squadron strength , the various programs undertaken by ADA / HAL & the looming war against China which IMO is due around 2030.

> Production of the entire lot of 200 nos Mk-2 expected to commence by 2032-33 should last up until 2040-42 depending on the production quota /yr which should vary between 20-25 per year.

> This is considering the same production lines for Mk-1a would be utilised which as per latest reports are 2 in Bangalore & 1 in Nashik geared to churn out 24 nos p.a in peak production.

> Ideally we should've begun production by 2030 & wound up by 2040 but here we are . Hopefully this schedule would be considered sacrosanct & adhered to by all parties concerned.

> Further this particular production schedule doesn't take into account any exports . I'm referring to both the Mk-1a & Mk-2 here . Wonder how would MoD & HAL cater to that ?

> Another aspect to be considered is the production of both the AMCA Mk-1 & the TEDBF , (apart from the HTT-40 & HJT / IJT -36) both of which should be ready to go into production post FOC in the latter half of the 2030s.

> If 3 of HALs production lines seem to be occupied catering solely to Mk-2 production we'd need at least 1 line per FA as far as the AMCA & TEDBF goes assuming we're going in for 40 & 60 nos respectively.

> However all this is for the future . What should engage our immediate attention & demand our focus is the Super Sukhoi upgrade where it seems clear that HAL is awaiting the order for the 12 Su-30 MKI next year presumably with the Super Sukhoi upgrades which'd then go into the other 84 MKIs.

> In case these MKIs are built to older specifications & assuming we commence the Super Sukhoi upgrade program by 2026 as originally envisaged at Nashik , given 1 line there will be dedicated to Mk-1a production how long will it take for the first (?) lot of ~ 84 nos MKIs to be upgraded ?

> What about the remaining ~ 180 nos ? Do we intend to upgrade them too & if so what's the deadline ? We can't possibly be upgrading MKIs all the way into the 2040s where we go in for the production of the AMCA Mk-2 once the entire lot of MKIs are upgraded which seems to be the case prima facie.

> The reason these questions need to be asked & answers sought is coz our MKIs in its present form are in no position to go up against the J-20 + J-16 combo.

> Ideally we need to be upgrading the initial lot of ~ 84 nos within 2 years by 2028 which translates to 42 nos per annum which works to ~ 3 nos being upgraded per month . I've my doubts if HAL - Ozhar / Nashik can dedicate 3 lines to upgrade the MKIs AND dedicate 1 line to assembling Mk-1a .

> We've around 7 BRDs spread across India minus the one at Ozhar which can undertake these activities although I'm not sure how many MKIs can they upgrade per annum in addition to their existing tasks.

 

[karn]

This seems in line with what HVT tweeted some time back . 2-3 yrs for roll out post sanctioning of funds followed by a year of taxi trials post which we'd have the FF. CMD HAL seems to have truncated the taxi trial period to 6 months.

Assuming Mar '26 as date of FF , we can expect FOC by 2031-32 & full production to commence by 2032-33 with a lag of 1 year for delays which again seems to be as per the production schedule of HAL for the entire lot of 180 nos Mk-1a which is due to end by 2032-33.

A few points on the mfg & MLU facilities of HAL in the wake of the alarming fall in our squadron strength , the various programs undertaken by ADA / HAL & the looming war against China which IMO is due around 2030.

> Production of the entire lot of 200 nos Mk-2 expected to commence by 2032-33 should last up until 2040-42 depending on the production quota /yr which should vary between 20-25 per year.

> This is considering the same production lines for Mk-1a would be utilised which as per latest reports are 2 in Bangalore & 1 in Nashik geared to churn out 24 nos p.a in peak production.

> Ideally we should've begun production by 2030 & wound up by 2040 but here we are . Hopefully this schedule would be considered sacrosanct & adhered to by all parties concerned.

> Further this particular production schedule doesn't take into account any exports . I'm referring to both the Mk-1a & Mk-2 here . Wonder how would MoD & HAL cater to that ?

> Another aspect to be considered is the production of both the AMCA Mk-1 & the TEDBF , (apart from the HTT-40 & HJT / IJT -36) both of which should be ready to go into production post FOC in the latter half of the 2030s.

> If 3 of HALs production lines seem to be occupied catering solely to Mk-2 production we'd need at least 1 line per FA as far as the AMCA & TEDBF goes assuming we're going in for 40 & 60 nos respectively.

> However all this is for the future . What should engage our immediate attention & demand our focus is the Super Sukhoi upgrade where it seems clear that HAL is awaiting the order for the 12 Su-30 MKI next year presumably with the Super Sukhoi upgrades which'd then go into the other 84 MKIs.

> In case these MKIs are built to older specifications & assuming we commence the Super Sukhoi upgrade program by 2026 as originally envisaged at Nashik , given 1 line there will be dedicated to Mk-1a production how long will it take for the first (?) lot of ~ 84 nos MKIs to be upgraded ?

> What about the remaining ~ 180 nos ? Do we intend to upgrade them too & if so what's the deadline ? We can't possibly be upgrading MKIs all the way into the 2040s where we go in for the production of the AMCA Mk-2 once the entire lot of MKIs are upgraded which seems to be the case prima facie.

> The reason these questions need to be asked & answers sought is coz our MKIs in its present form are in no position to go up against the J-20 + J-16 combo.

> Ideally we need to be upgrading the initial lot of ~ 84 nos within 2 years by 2028 which translates to 42 nos per annum which works to ~ 3 nos being upgraded per month . I've my doubts if HAL - Ozhar / Nashik can dedicate 3 lines to upgrade the MKIs AND dedicate 1 line to assembling Mk-1a .

> We've around 7 BRDs spread across India minus the one at Ozhar which can undertake these activities although I'm not sure how many MKIs can they upgrade per annum in addition to their existing tasks.

Nice write up
Are you sure though that the nashik su 30 line is at all linked to the proposed tejas line .

 

[Azaad]

Nice write up
Are you sure though that the nashik su 30 line is at all linked to the proposed tejas line .

HAL Ozhar is expected to come up with 8 nos Mk-1a next FY onwards. That's what the CMD HAL has been claiming repeatedly since at least the past 1.5 yrs .

 

[binayak95]

NewSpace

View attachment 254523

Eh Commodore saab kemcho.

For those who dont know the guy explaining is Commodore Maolankar. He is first non British QFI on the Sea Harrier, and OIC LUSH upgrade program. Is a veritable genius on matters aerospace.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Eh Commodore saab kemcho.

For those who dont know the guy explaining is Commodore Maolankar. He is first non British QFI on the Sea Harrier, and OIC LUSH upgrade program. Is a veritable genius on matters aerospace.

Working for newspace?

 

[Azaad]

Working for newspace?

Since quite a few months. Man has to be appreciated as he let go of several career boosting opportunities instead choosing to be involved as a Test Pilot with the Tejas program.

 

[standard snowball]

This seems in line with what HVT tweeted some time back . 2-3 yrs for roll out post sanctioning of funds followed by a year of taxi trials post which we'd have the FF. CMD HAL seems to have truncated the taxi trial period to 6 months.

Assuming Mar '26 as date of FF , we can expect FOC by 2031-32 & full production to commence by 2032-33 with a lag of 1 year for delays which again seems to be as per the production schedule of HAL for the entire lot of 180 nos Mk-1a which is due to end by 2032-33.

A few points on the mfg & MLU facilities of HAL in the wake of the alarming fall in our squadron strength , the various programs undertaken by ADA / HAL & the looming war against China which IMO is due around 2030.

> Production of the entire lot of 200 nos Mk-2 expected to commence by 2032-33 should last up until 2040-42 depending on the production quota /yr which should vary between 20-25 per year.

> This is considering the same production lines for Mk-1a would be utilised which as per latest reports are 2 in Bangalore & 1 in Nashik geared to churn out 24 nos p.a in peak production.

> Ideally we should've begun production by 2030 & wound up by 2040 but here we are . Hopefully this schedule would be considered sacrosanct & adhered to by all parties concerned.

> Further this particular production schedule doesn't take into account any exports . I'm referring to both the Mk-1a & Mk-2 here . Wonder how would MoD & HAL cater to that ?

> Another aspect to be considered is the production of both the AMCA Mk-1 & the TEDBF , (apart from the HTT-40 & HJT / IJT -36) both of which should be ready to go into production post FOC in the latter half of the 2030s.

> If 3 of HALs production lines seem to be occupied catering solely to Mk-2 production we'd need at least 1 line per FA as far as the AMCA & TEDBF goes assuming we're going in for 40 & 60 nos respectively.

> However all this is for the future . What should engage our immediate attention & demand our focus is the Super Sukhoi upgrade where it seems clear that HAL is awaiting the order for the 12 Su-30 MKI next year presumably with the Super Sukhoi upgrades which'd then go into the other 84 MKIs.

> In case these MKIs are built to older specifications & assuming we commence the Super Sukhoi upgrade program by 2026 as originally envisaged at Nashik , given 1 line there will be dedicated to Mk-1a production how long will it take for the first (?) lot of ~ 84 nos MKIs to be upgraded ?

> What about the remaining ~ 180 nos ? Do we intend to upgrade them too & if so what's the deadline ? We can't possibly be upgrading MKIs all the way into the 2040s where we go in for the production of the AMCA Mk-2 once the entire lot of MKIs are upgraded which seems to be the case prima facie.

> The reason these questions need to be asked & answers sought is coz our MKIs in its present form are in no position to go up against the J-20 + J-16 combo.

> Ideally we need to be upgrading the initial lot of ~ 84 nos within 2 years by 2028 which translates to 42 nos per annum which works to ~ 3 nos being upgraded per month . I've my doubts if HAL - Ozhar / Nashik can dedicate 3 lines to upgrade the MKIs AND dedicate 1 line to assembling Mk-1a .

> We've around 7 BRDs spread across India minus the one at Ozhar which can undertake these activities although I'm not sure how many MKIs can they upgrade per annum in addition to their existing tasks.

Once the actual Tejas mk2/AMCA/TEDBF is developed the same pvt players who refused to work in SPV will come at this large orderbook as shameless hungry vultures and try to take a piece of the pie

 

[Azaad]

Once the actual Tejas mk2/AMCA/TEDBF is developed the same pvt players who refused to work in SPV will come at this large orderbook as shameless hungry vultures and try to take a piece of the pie

Ruled out , as none in the pvt sector had the expertise to participate in such programs to begin with which is a blessing in disguise & a sharp slap to the GoI for dreaming impossible dreams.

In any case the SPV was limited to the AMCA . Mk-2 follows Mk-1a on the very same production lines. There'd be no overlap there. Which means Tejas was is & will remain HAL's baby .

TEDBF is actually a financially unviable program given the scarce numbers to be mfgd which at present is touted to be 60. The financial viability of the entire project wouldn't change even if the quantity was doubled.

As far as AMCA goes pvt sector participation was solicited. We know how that ended. Going ahead most of these pvt sector companies would serve as top tier vendors for the aforementioned projects.

It's only after this that they'd be confident participating as full fledged partners in the development of a future FA project which is the way it should be .

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Yahoodis smiling rn

 

[Smoothbore125mm]

Yahoodis smiling rn

if any one plans to start a startup or specific sensors and all better to stay far far away from army most preferable to approach navy then air force you may get a deal there
and this atv which you posted earlier lets see what lies in its future (it looks awesome tbh) but i think the engines would be imported either ways it would be much better than the extremely overpriced polaris

i mean it looks good aint it ?

 

[Mr.Evil007]

if any one plans to start a startup or specific sensors and all better to stay far far away from army most preferable to approach navy then air force you may get a deal there
and this atv which you posted earlier lets see what lies in its future (it looks awesome tbh) but i think the engines would be imported either ways it would be much better than the extremely overpriced polaris

i mean it looks good aint it ?
View attachment 254647

I think it’s still something good like I see this as an achievement Iam have my mixed opinions on whether this has market in India or not cause in Rajasthan Jaisalmer side if this gets affordable it will BOOM and I think if they get good orders and good feedback to reduce the cost and increase their profit they will work or go for an indigenous engine.And yes that does look pretty cool.

 

[ezsasa]

if any one plans to start a startup or specific sensors and all better to stay far far away from army most preferable to approach navy then air force you may get a deal there

on defence startups.

for now domestic defence industry is a just above one lakh crore, and there are only a few capex categories like drones and opticals where startups sell directly to forces, majority of them are suppliers competing with established players to the integrators like HAL, BDL, BEML BEML in DPSU and L&T, BF, TATA, GODREJ etc in private sector.

what ever sales that are happening directly to forces, they are happening purely because the current GoI is pushing forces to buy from startups. this is to say, there is still some time for this process to stabilise where forces show genuine interest in buying from industry.

and then comes the paradox, for a sensor from startup to go an equipment, it has to be part of the DRDO design, that too via tender process.

@Chinmoy are my statements valid?

 

[Raj Malhotra]

MSME are given certain benefits. Therefore, certain unscrupulous persons take benefit of MSME label to import, increase price, fake indigenisation, and sell to government departments.

 

[Azaad]

Very informative interview of the former Dy CoAS Lt Gen Saha by Nitin Gokhale on the state of affairs as far as DRDO goes as well as the interplay between the armed forces & our DPSU based MIC & the next gen reforms needed to achieve self reliance in this field going ahead.

Must watch IMHO especially for the naysayers & those who wish to debunk those perpetual doubting Thomases !