DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

raju1982

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They need to bring those massive machines that makes wings like automated fibre laying, those large ass ovens which bake them and stuff like automated hole drilling and fastening. Otherwise if its just assembling like IKEA Table, its waste of time and no one learns anything . does anyone know the Tata C-295 deal, is it just about screwdrivergiri or we shall make some aerostructures from scratch ?
It is same screwdrivergiri only. But something is better than nothing. Atleast few engineers will know how this industry works, unlike HAL.
 

patriots

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Drdo mpdms future application s

1. Manpad
2. Vehicle mounted vshorad( just like namica )
3. Helicopter lunced atam
4. Possible 3 Rd layer of ad ( 1st mr sam , 2 nd vlsrsam ) on ships
5. Small ships ad coverage ( small ships with 2-3 luncher s of mpdms will get something for air defence)
 

Satish Sharma

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Where did designs for kalyani guns come from?
Atags is completely indigeneous.

Other artilleries like Bharat series with caliber of 52/45/39 are from some European firms I think Austrian firm..

They have absorbed enough technology that they made there own light weight howitzer. Like titanium Bharat ulh-39 which weights 4.6 tons same with stainless steel 6.6 tons it also has 39/52 caliber variants.

Another one is garuda v2 which based on humwee systems they reduced the weight of the gun from ~2 tons to some 800kgs as they have absorbed enough tech..

The marg-39 mgs is already Exported to Armenia..

Bharat forge can make 1 barrel per day
Screenshot_2023-11-30-10-13-38-14_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg
 

AnantS

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Army be like - this system is heavy, other system weights around 15-16kg this weights 20.5 kg.
So we will buy igla..
5 kg extra is quite heavy for soldier. Remember Battle load does not exceed 25kg for Indian soldier. So if such a system itself ways 20kg what about the rest? They shall need to reduce wt. For now they can use this as Mounted version. Heck I would love to see a CCM missile as VSHORAD'S offshoot development
 

NoobWannaLearn

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Tridev123

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A welcome addition to our arsenal of air defence missiles.
It will also be the last line of missile defence against enemy aerial targets.

A few suggestions
1.We need to be fully self-sufficient in defensive measures systems. Presently we are dependent to a considerable extent on imported systems. I believe we use SAAB defensive aids systems on the ALH and its various versions. And we depend on imported systems to counter IR threats for even our VIP and VVIP aircraft.

I guess we have an indigenous RWR and DCMAWS.
Hope that they are fully indigenous including the components.

As a matter of policy and for reducing any vulnerabilities ideally all of our defensive measures systems which protect both fixed wing aircraft and helicopters should be fully indigenous.
Now do we want to depend on other countries for the task of securing our flying assets.

Because most of our flying aircraft are high value assets and are also used to transport high level dignitaries. Any major mishap would have impact on our national security.

The DRDO should prioritise R&D work on various aircraft protection technologies to make India independent in this field.

The importance of the mission cannot be overstated. The President, the Prime Minister,other Ministers, Chiefs of the Army, Airforce and Navy etc all regularly use planes or helicopters to travel around the country and even abroad.
Maybe I am magnifying the issue
But do we always want SAAB or Raytheon or any other foreign company to protect our VVIP's.
Would they be 100% dependable. What if some hostile intelligence service manages to bribe some employees of these companies and gains access to the core technologies especially the software coding. These companies are based abroad in another country and we have zero control over them.

Once somebody knows how the algorithms have been designed for an aircraft defensive aids system or the actual performance parameters of the sensors it becomes easier for an adversary to design/program an anti aircraft missile to overcome the defenses.

I am not claiming that our indigenous aircraft protection systems would have an zero percentage failure rate. But at least the technologies and the systems/subsystems will be Indian and we can modify it based on the threat scenario.
 

Tridev123

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Another area on which I would like to focus on is
Night Vision Devices

Now is India self-sufficient in night vision technologies. I wouldn't be surprised if we are somewhat self-sufficient only in First Generation night vision systems. Including Bolometers.

The concept is not very different from BVR missile operational strategy.
SEE FIRST SHOOT FIRST

Combat operations in the night are per se difficult. An good Night Vision system makes the task easier. By allowing the soldier to spot the enemy even in the darkness and empowering him to fire the first shot.
Whoever sees the enemy first has the advantage.

Now assume that our soldiers use an 1st generation night vision device. But the enemy uses an 3rd generation night vision device.
Now who has the advantage. An 3rd generation night vision device can spot targets further ahead and better with more clarity. As compared to an 1st generation NV device.

So it's important that we develop and use the state of the art Night Vision equipment.

The advanced nations will never give us the latest Night Vision devices or the associated technologies. Depending on imports means that we get to use inferior technology equipment.

We need a separate division in the DRDO which concentrates only on developing the best Night Vision technologies.

But I am also qualifying the advocacy for developing the state of the art Night Vision devices.

I am not stating that Night Vision technology alone can help us or any other army to win the war.
I cannot visualize an Battalion strength or even an Company strength force of soldiers (all of them wearing night vision goggles)planning and executing an offensive at night to break through enemy lines.

But Night Vision devices can be used by small contingents of Special Forces(commandos) to carry out surprise attacks on the enemy. Probably achieve tactical gains and also demoralize the enemy.

We need to become fully self-sufficient in the latest generation Night Vision technologies.
 

NoobWannaLearn

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Another area on which I would like to focus on is
Night Vision Devices

Now is India self-sufficient in night vision technologies. I wouldn't be surprised if we are somewhat self-sufficient only in First Generation night vision systems. Including Bolometers.

The concept is not very different from BVR missile operational strategy.
SEE FIRST SHOOT FIRST

Combat operations in the night are per se difficult. An good Night Vision system makes the task easier. By allowing the soldier to spot the enemy even in the darkness and empowering him to fire the first shot.
Whoever sees the enemy first has the advantage.

Now assume that our soldiers use an 1st generation night vision device. But the enemy uses an 3rd generation night vision device.
Now who has the advantage. An 3rd generation night vision device can spot targets further ahead and better with more clarity. As compared to an 1st generation NV device.

So it's important that we develop and use the state of the art Night Vision equipment.

The advanced nations will never give us the latest Night Vision devices or the associated technologies. Depending on imports means that we get to use inferior technology equipment.

We need a separate division in the DRDO which concentrates only on developing the best Night Vision technologies.

But I am also qualifying the advocacy for developing the state of the art Night Vision devices.

I am not stating that Night Vision technology alone can help us or any other army to win the war.
I cannot visualize an Battalion strength or even an Company strength force of soldiers (all of them wearing night vision goggles)planning and executing an offensive at night to break through enemy lines.

But Night Vision devices can be used by small contingents of Special Forces(commandos) to carry out surprise attacks on the enemy. Probably achieve tactical gains and also demoralize the enemy.

We need to become fully self-sufficient in the latest generation Night Vision technologies.
We have Tonbo Making world class night vision devices no need to waste money and time money of drdo even BEL produces quad nvgs and MKU has them too.
 

Blood+

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Another area on which I would like to focus on is
Night Vision Devices

Now is India self-sufficient in night vision technologies. I wouldn't be surprised if we are somewhat self-sufficient only in First Generation night vision systems. Including Bolometers.

The concept is not very different from BVR missile operational strategy.
SEE FIRST SHOOT FIRST

Combat operations in the night are per se difficult. An good Night Vision system makes the task easier. By allowing the soldier to spot the enemy even in the darkness and empowering him to fire the first shot.
Whoever sees the enemy first has the advantage.

Now assume that our soldiers use an 1st generation night vision device. But the enemy uses an 3rd generation night vision device.
Now who has the advantage. An 3rd generation night vision device can spot targets further ahead and better with more clarity. As compared to an 1st generation NV device.

So it's important that we develop and use the state of the art Night Vision equipment.

The advanced nations will never give us the latest Night Vision devices or the associated technologies. Depending on imports means that we get to use inferior technology equipment.

We need a separate division in the DRDO which concentrates only on developing the best Night Vision technologies.

But I am also qualifying the advocacy for developing the state of the art Night Vision devices.

I am not stating that Night Vision technology alone can help us or any other army to win the war.
I cannot visualize an Battalion strength or even an Company strength force of soldiers (all of them wearing night vision goggles)planning and executing an offensive at night to break through enemy lines.

But Night Vision devices can be used by small contingents of Special Forces(commandos) to carry out surprise attacks on the enemy. Probably achieve tactical gains and also demoralize the enemy.

We need to become fully self-sufficient in the latest generation Night Vision technologies.
Just use a thermal.
 

thebakofbakchod

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We have Tonbo Making world class night vision devices no need to waste money and time money of drdo even BEL produces quad nvgs and MKU has them too.
AFAIK Tonbo does not actually make the lenses here despite what they say. To this day they have not shown any photos of their production line, nor is there any news of them importing machinery to make them. They are most likely outsourcing their production. India needs a PLI in this category as well. Our lens industry is nascent at best
 

NoobWannaLearn

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AFAIK Tonbo does not actually make the lenses here despite what they say. To this day they have not shown any photos of their production line, nor is there any news of them importing machinery to make them. They are most likely outsourcing their production. India needs a PLI in this category as well. Our lens industry is nascent at best
Outsourcing lenses to usa last I heard but don't wanna see drdo waste time on it when their are so many companies and PSUs working on nvgs.
 

ezsasa

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Outsourcing lenses to usa last I heard but don't wanna see drdo waste time on it when their are so many companies and PSUs working on nvgs.
even if it is true, these sort of business decisions should not be held against a company. this is how patent regimes operate. we have to remember tonbo started developing patents in U.S long before GoI(past and present) publicly acknowledged the value of streamlining domestic patent regimes.

if say 5 years from now, let's say tonbo has all the patents they needs from domestic source, if it makes business sense they will probably use domestic source.

patents regimes across the world, are designed to keep revenue stream atleast for royalties on patents within sovereign territories. if a product is being developed in U.S, they will try to use as many patents from U.S, if a product is being developed in E.U, they will try to use as many patents from E.U. then comes common markets and trade agreements.
 

raju1982

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Army be like - this system is heavy, other system weights around 15-16kg this weights 20.5 kg.
So we will buy igla..
The Igla version army is buying is 20 years old, when i read about IA going for Igla, i thought at least they can go for Verba. Horrible planning and execution.
 

Tridev123

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We have Tonbo Making world class night vision devices no need to waste money and time money of drdo even BEL produces quad nvgs and MKU has them too.
Can you please certify whether Tonbo makes all the components that are used in its night vision devices. Cite an reliable source.

I doubt whether even BEL has zero imports of all the components. I may be wrong.
You can give official sources to verify whether BEL has reached total self-sufficiency.

What type of bolometers do we manufacture. And the resolution achieved.
Can it compare to the best in the world.

I am aiming at 100% technological independence.
Importing and assembling is not real self-sufficiency.

Absolutely no problem if an Indian private sector company does the hard R&D work and achieves end to end technological independence.

I agree. Why over burden DRDO. But will a private company do genuine research and own IPR's in this specialised field. Become a world leader.
 

Satish Sharma

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This is not comparable to Igla. VSHORADS is a tripod-truck mounted one. Igla is purely shoulder launched. We still have to advance in miniaturising the actuators, propulsion and other sub components
Vshorads is of heavier category.
We can't miniaturise actuators & subcomponents they are already miniaturised. Its just we made a bigger system..
IGLA & stinger weights 17.9 kg & 15.7 kg.
Both have 70mm diameter. Both have length of 1.5metre stinger has range of 4.5km IGLA has 5km &6km variants.

Compare it to vshorad & mistral..
Both weight 20kg diameter of 90mm.
Length 2m of vshorad & 1.86 of mistral..
Vshorads has mechanical actuators as well as reaction controls too for very high munuevrability .. vshorad is balanced tradeoff design with alot of gains but only compromise on length & weight.
Vshorad has proximity fuse which IGLA ,stinger lacks . So even if is defeated by flares if it is in close proximity it can do significant damage. Unlike stinger who has impact fuse..
We can't say 2m length will be an issue or not...
But 20.5 kg might be in high altitudes..
Mistral has 7km range & vshorad has 7-8km..
The seeker of vshorad is superior to others as it has uncooled dual band ir seeker.. I have read, material which are used makes it more sensitive..

With increased weight & length vshorad gives advantage.. proximity fuse, reaction thrust controls, more fuel -longer range,

We should make a bigger system based on it like mistral 3..
& A smaller system too for portability.

Like 90mm diameter with 1.5 metre will give best combo of capabilities.. having 5km range will be more than enough it will be even more in higher altitudes..
With including Proximity fuse, reaction controls.

Reaction controls
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