DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[ezsasa]

We also need people high in position who don't lack domain knowledge but have strong courage to rebut armed forces on their magical fantasy features imaginary weapon with budget of chaiwala. They need to tell them to get their specifications right otherwise we will be chasing wild goose on whims of them only to be scrapped later like those rifle or submarine deal.

it doesn’t work like that, customer is the King. DRDO is the service provider, defence forces are the consumer and user. onboarding competent and accountable users during the design process and imparting relevant technical knowledge much before( years) the d-day will have better results, instead of rebuttal.

 

[ezsasa]

it doesn’t work like that, customer is the King. DRDO is the service provider, defence forces are the consumer and user. onboarding competent and accountable users during the design process and imparting relevant technical knowledge much before( years) the d-day will have better results, instead of rebuttal.

the fact that IA is demonstrating equipments designed inhouse, like R-73 based SAMAR system and 9mm machine pistol to name a few, would mean among other things IA is encouraging inhouse technical competence. some of them may be crude looking, but the fact is that they exist.

the way India's defence R&D was originally structured, this should not have happened. yet, out of necessity it is happening.

 

[raju1982]

the fact that IA is demonstrating equipments designed inhouse, like R-73 based SAMAR system and 9mm machine pistol to name a few, would mean among other things IA is encouraging inhouse technical competence. some of them may be crude looking, but the fact is that they exist.

the way India's defence R&D was originally structured, this should not have happened. yet, out of necessity it is happening.

I feel through out last two decades people were more harsh towards armed forces by completely overlooking DRDO's mismanagement and private seector's inabilities when it comes to indigination

 

[Chinmoy]

Ye kab hua

This got inducted. Alakran Mobile Mortar system on Mahindra ALSV.

 

[Azaad]

Defence PSU MIDHANI enters the global supply chain for aero-engine critical materials

MIDHANI, a defence PSU, is making strides in the global supply chain by offering critical materials for aerospace manufacturing.

www.thehindubusinessline.com

 

[Eagle Eye]

View attachment 236958

This got inducted. Alakran Mobile Mortar system on Mahindra ALSV.

What's with green paint? Wonder why IA still not using camouflage in defence platforms.

 

[ezsasa]

I feel through out last two decades people were more harsh towards armed forces by completely overlooking DRDO's mismanagement and private seector's inabilities when it comes to indigination

on the bit about perception of mismanagement.

donno how the convos on these topic happen in other countries with defence R&D capabilities, but in India since defence R&D is govt owned, it is assumed by the public that they are entitled to info on govt defence R&D progress. hypothetically if defence R&D in India would have been private conglomerate owned, news would have come thru their PR agencies with a positive spin to assuage anxieties of their share holders(market).

since ours is a govt setup, and they can give out little information for security reasons, without PR agency in between, it gets subjected to speculations most of the time, and it gets painted with usual pessimism by the public.

 

[Chinmoy]

Why are still failing on extending the range of Pinaka even after these years. For a country that made ICBMs, SLBMs is it that hard or is it drdo guys chalta hai attitude. MLRS are one of the deciding factor in case of war. Is it assigned or traditionally done by a bad drdo lab?

@Kuldeepm952 already answered one part, let me give you another part.

The easiest way to extend the range is to increase the calibre. Pinaka is a 122 mm calibre system. So if we make it a 200 mm or 300 mm calibre system, the range could be increased overnight.
But with increased caliber, you are increasing the weight of the overall system. Now IA don't want a heavier system just for sake of range extension. So instead of going the easy way, we are going the hard way here. We are not increasing the Pinaka calibre, but working on the fuel composition. So it would take time.

Aside that, work is on on 300mm system, which would automatically increase the range.

 

[raju1982]

on the bit about perception of mismanagement.

donno how the convos on these topic happen in other countries with defence R&D capabilities, but in India since defence R&D is govt owned, it is assumed by the public that they are entitled to info on govt defence R&D progress. hypothetically if defence R&D in India would have been private conglomerate owned, news would have come thru their PR agencies with a positive spin to assuage anxieties of their share holders(market).

since ours is a govt setup, and they can give out little information for security reasons, without PR agency in between, it gets subjected to speculations most of the time, and it gets painted with usual pessimism by the public.

Its not about PR, its how the projects are handled and accountability of the people in charge.

 

[ezsasa]

Its not about PR, its how the projects are handled and accountability of the people in charge.

on the bit about demand for accountability, if we notice the shrillest of discourse happens where there is foreign vendor eyeing a future tender of a particular product category. the product categories where DRDO has stabilised the R&D like missiles, elint, signals, radars, comms etc. we hardly hear any major shrill discussions, some of these equipment categories from first posters for public display to order happens rather silently.

so we can say, not all product categories have the issue. when people demand for accountability, nuance gets lost that, it's not the case that the entire setup is crap, rather a few product categories R&D success is eluding thus far.

 

[karn]

@Kuldeepm952 already answered one part, let me give you another part.

The easiest way to extend the range is to increase the calibre. Pinaka is a 122 mm calibre system. So if we make it a 200 mm or 300 mm calibre system, the range could be increased overnight.
But with increased caliber, you are increasing the weight of the overall system. Now IA don't want a heavier system just for sake of range extension. So instead of going the easy way, we are going the hard way here. We are not increasing the Pinaka calibre, but working on the fuel composition. So it would take time.

Aside that, work is on on 300mm system, which would automatically increase the range.

Pinaka is 214 mm isn't it .. it's the grads that are 122

 

[Chinmoy]

What's with green paint? Wonder why IA still not using camouflage in defence platforms.

Olive-Green is just basic paint. We have seen these with Desert Camo.

 

[Chinmoy]

Pinaka is 214mm... not 122mm.

Sorry, my bad.

 

[Chinmoy]

Pinaka is 214 mm isn't it .. it's the grads that are 122

Yeah, I fumbled on calibre there.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

 

[Tridev123]

@Kuldeepm952 already answered one part, let me give you another part.

The easiest way to extend the range is to increase the calibre. Pinaka is a 122 mm calibre system. So if we make it a 200 mm or 300 mm calibre system, the range could be increased overnight.
But with increased caliber, you are increasing the weight of the overall system. Now IA don't want a heavier system just for sake of range extension. So instead of going the easy way, we are going the hard way here. We are not increasing the Pinaka calibre, but working on the fuel composition. So it would take time.

Aside that, work is on on 300mm system, which would automatically increase the range.

Coming to the design and development of MBRL systems.
I am a bit puzzled by the trend(especially as pioneered by the Chinese) to go on increasing the range of MBRL systems. I believe that they have recently gifted or should we say handed on a platter an MBRL system of 400kms range. The Pakistanis of course as usual painted it in green colour and gave it a Muslim name.

What should be the optimum range of MBRL systems. A big drawback of multiple rockets flying in close proximity to one another is that a system like the Israeli Iron Dome will pick up the radar reflections quickly and probably launch a few SAM like missiles with pre fragmented warheads to create a cloud of fast moving steel balls/other projectiles which will punch holes in the incoming MBRL rockets and probably destroy their avionics forcing them to go off course. The target or targets here are concentrated in a definite geographical area and not dispersed.

Should anyone develop 500/1000 kms range or even 2000 kms range MBRL
It seems crazy to keep on increasing the range.
The more the range, the greater the fuel required and the bigger the rockets become. Bigger rockets are more easily detected by radar.

So obviously technical trade offs occur. Won't it be easier for ABM systems to track an incoming missile flock if the enemy missiles are close to each other rather than if they are dispersed.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

 

[Chinmoy]

Coming to the design and development of MBRL systems.
I am a bit puzzled by the trend(especially as pioneered by the Chinese) to go on increasing the range of MBRL systems. I believe that they have recently gifted or should we say handed on a platter an MBRL system of 400kms range. The Pakistanis of course as usual painted it in green colour and gave it a Muslim name.

What should be the optimum range of MBRL systems. A big drawback of multiple rockets flying in close proximity to one another is that a system like the Israeli Iron Dome will pick up the radar reflections quickly and probably launch a few SAM like missiles with pre fragmented warheads to create a cloud of fast moving steel balls/other projectiles which will punch holes in the incoming MBRL rockets and probably destroy their avionics forcing them to go off course. The target or targets here are concentrated in a definite geographical area and not dispersed.

Should anyone develop 500/1000 kms range or even 2000 kms range MBRL
It seems crazy to keep on increasing the range.
The more the range, the greater the fuel required and the bigger the rockets become. Bigger rockets are more easily detected by radar.

So obviously technical trade offs occur. Won't it be easier for ABM systems to track an incoming missile flock if the enemy missiles are close to each other rather than if they are dispersed.

There is no practical range limit on paper. Range is limited by practical terms. But if you could design an MBRL with 2000 km range, then its good for you.

MBRLs are tradeoffs in between artillery gun and missile. With a longer range heavier and configurable payload, its more destructive then an arty shell, but with fraction of cost and simplicity in design, its cheaper then a missile. So if you can field a longer range MBRL, its beneficial for you.

 

[AnantS]

MBRLs are tradeoffs in between artillery gun and missile. With a longer range heavier and configurable payload, its more destructive then an arty shell, but with fraction of cost and simplicity in design, its cheaper then a missile. So if you can field a longer range MBRL, its beneficial for you.

But with accuracy as trade off. If you want it more accurate long range mbrl - better go for guided missile.

 

[Chinmoy]

But with accuracy as trade off. If you want it more accurate long range mbrl - better go for guided missile.

Same for artillery shell. That's why it comes under artillery.