Corner Shot / Non Line of sight infantry weapons.

[Kunal Biswas]

more detail about the pic

The other variant on Insas was better, except the system needed to be wireless also the screen needed to be on left eye..

 

[Armand2REP]

Not so practical but the pic on the first is very practical deign..
It need some more modification, i hope DRDO already made such system for F-INSAS..

I must agree, not practical and the worst of the ideas for NLOS rifles. An LCD on the rifle butt... just lame.

This one is a better concept requiring a cable to the optical sight, but has inherent problems with ergonomics of the soldier and the sheer bulk of size. It looks like a CCD camera only. With reduction of size and longer cable, it could be a usable configuration if IR is added.

Cornershot has its own problems, you can't use the rifle around corners and it has no helmet sight. You have to load a pistol on it and haul around a built in LCD screen. It is fine as a SWAT weapon but not enough firepower or capability for future infantry.

Then of course there is FELIN. Wifi connection from scope to eye-piece with 3rd gen IR. Doesn't get much better than that.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Then of course there is FELIN. Wifi connection from scope to eye-piece with 3rd gen IR. Doesn't get much better than that.

Wireless HMD is the future for corner-shot rifles, further the traditional rifles need to be change to adapt for future soldiers like F-INSAS , land warrior etc, these rifle required inbuilt systems so that the iron sights and the rail should be free for shooting and for adding extra scopes..

The systems available today are immature and early ideas of future soldiers, all things needed to be practiced in real conditions so they can evolve..
http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/showthread.php/12275-Non-Line-of-sight-weapons./page2

 

[Armand2REP]

FELIN system is plenty mature, it is being delivered to the entire expeditionary army.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

FELIN system is plenty mature, it is being delivered to the entire expeditionary army.

The FELIN system is a early variant which you see today, and as time goes by many need and changes will come as per that It will evolved into what i mentioned into my previous posts..

 

[Armand2REP]

The FELIN system is a early variant which you see today, and as time goes by many need and changes will come as per that It will evolved into what i mentioned into my previous posts..

I saw that Future Korean system you posted, had a good laugh at some of its components too. Mini-missile system, personal AC/heating, mine-detector, personal ECM and laser jammer... come back to reality for a moment. The soldier still has to carry all that crap. If you want inbuilt sights, just take the scope off FAMAS. It still works as a regular rifle in case your battery dies. You can add anything to the rail you want.

 

[sayareakd]

@Armand2REP South korea is the only army which use K11 rifle, which i would say is the most advance rifle in the world, they have beaten USA and Russia and others into developing this rifle.

If the future version is the one they are planing then, let them do so (remember they are very strong in electronics).

 

[Armand2REP]

I am not sitting here saying FAMAS is the most advanced rifle in the world... it is certainly not. We want a new rifle as I can attest to myself. The K11 certainly has an interesting capability with its 20mm airburst, but it isn't the most advanced rifle in the world. It weighs 6.1kg. FAMAS with Felin kit weighs 4.3kg. Sometimes you don't need to carry a grenade launcher, but with K11 you have no choice. The HMD is still tied by cable, not Wifi which will seriously restrict movement of the soldier, get caught in something. Too much can go wrong with it and... it is too damned heavy.

 

[sayareakd]

guys i found a rare picture of INSAS with MPRS of Israel

this one is from IMI

[/URL] Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/IMG]

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I saw that Future Korean system you posted, had a good laugh at some of its components too. Mini-missile system, personal AC/heating, mine-detector, personal ECM and laser jammer... come back to reality for a moment. The soldier still has to carry all that crap. If you want inbuilt sights, just take the scope off FAMAS. It still works as a regular rifle in case your battery dies. You can add anything to the rail you want.

@Armand, Dont laugh that hard, Every system exists today have advantages and some need improvements, even felin needs many improvements in her life time, According to present reality we must put only what soldiers need..

Now my point was: All future soldiers system requires a rifle that have a inbuilt cam which can take pics also can give online vid of the operation to the field command also to the user, the advantage of inbuilt cam is that the rifle iron sights would be operational and rail would be clear for additional scopes,

The use of it in operations: A soldiers can take corner-shots at the same time straight shots without making any changes to them main sights this improvement will save time hence increase survivability of the solider..

 

[sayareakd]

wondering what MPRS is here

The Multi-Purpose Rifle System (MPRS) weapon system, developed by IMI is expected to complete type classification by the IDF, prior for its service entry. MPRS will become a squad level weapon system, replacing M-203 40 mm grenades in some units. IMI is offering the system with the new ORION customized sight, designed to provide a ready to use, improved lethality system combining a standard assault rifle, such as Tavor, M4, SA80, INSAS, FAMAS or any other weapon using a standard Picatiny rail. The system utilizes advanced 40mm air-burst grenades and standard 5.56mm ammunition. MPRS uses the new ORION customized fire control and sighting system providing navigation, target acquisition, ranging, ballistic computation, ammunition interface as well as day and night capability in a single, compact 600 gr. system.

It has capability to fire from corner.

 

[Armand2REP]

@Armand, Dont laugh that hard, Every system exists today have advantages and some need improvements, even felin needs many improvements in her life time, According to present reality we must put only what soldiers need..

According to present reality, soldiers need a lightweight C4ISR combat system. That is FELIN. It needs a new light weight rifle and higher bandwidth datalinks from soldier to vehicle to eliminate the need to download large files and extend range. Other than that, it is pretty complete.

Now my point was: All future soldiers system requires a rifle that have a inbuilt cam which can take pics also can give online vid of the operation to the field command also to the user, the advantage of inbuilt cam is that the rifle iron sights would be operational and rail would be clear for additional scopes,

Who says it has to be inbuilt? FAMAS-Felin already has peep sights on the rail that can be used in conjunction with the scope. Solves that problem.

The use of it in operations: A soldiers can take corner-shots at the same time straight shots without making any changes to them main sights this improvement will save time hence increase survivability of the solider..

No changes have to be made, peep sight or scope... your choice.

 

[sayareakd]

kunal what Armand2REP trying to say is that now a days mini reflex has been fitted above the scope that do away with need of iron sight.

http://www.opticsbestbuy.com/SIGHTMARK-Mini-Shot-Reflex-Sight-SM13001.html

aforesaid link gives its length as 2 inches only.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

According to present reality, soldiers need a lightweight C4ISR combat system. That is FELIN. It needs a new light weight rifle and higher bandwidth datalinks from soldier to vehicle to eliminate the need to download large files and extend range. Other than that, it is pretty complete.

Indeed we need good communication with C4 structure, 4-5kgs ok with GL, apart from all these we need assurance for:

1. proper protection to delicate hardwares from dust, sand mud,water, heat & Extreme Cold Also from enemy fire ( 5.56mm & M43 ).. ( FELIN or any system does not provided yet )

2. soldiers can take corner-shots at the same time straight shots without making any changes to them main sights this improvement will save time hence increase survivability of the solider ( I WANT PEEP/IRON SIGHT ALSO THE HMD AT THE SAME TIME )

3. No external systems should be exposed to natural hazards, or enemy fire..

Who says it has to be inbuilt? FAMAS-Felin already has peep sights on the rail that can be used in conjunction with the scope. Solves that problem.
No changes have to be made, peep sight or scope... your choice.

We are discussing on improvement for F-INSAS, FELIN combat capabilities,
I from my view want both at the same time..

I can see the rail over the FCS, but i want iron/peep sight operational too..

Most of the system are outside and exposed in nature, these pouches cannot save equipment from shrapnel, bullets and other natural elements, the whole system would evolve into what i predict!

kunal what Armand2REP trying to say is that now a days mini reflex has been fitted above the scope that do away with need of iron sight.

http://www.opticsbestbuy.com/SIGHTMARK-Mini-Shot-Reflex-Sight-SM13001.html

aforesaid link gives its length as 2 inches only.

@sayareakd,
Reflex is not good at all in mud, water, fire, and it runs with batt, also require additional maintenance, Iron sights do not require these and do the job same as reflex, thats why Iron sights are so important in Army..

 

[Logan]

guys i found a rare picture of INSAS with MPRS of Israel

this one is from IMI

[/URL] Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/IMG]

Saya please tell me is this the one for the F-INSAS .What advantages it has over the normal INSAS rifle apart from the sight??
Also what about the bullpup model of the F-INSAS gun is it still on??

 

[sayareakd]

Saya please tell me is this the one for the F-INSAS .What advantages it has over the normal INSAS rifle apart from the sight??
Also what about the bullpup model of the F-INSAS gun is it still on??

First as Kunal said that it has nothing to do with FINSAS.

now about the MPRS system from israel and the UBGL attach to it and how it works

please check this link

http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2005smallarms/thursday/guttel.pdf

 

[sayareakd]

MPRS (Multi-Purpose Rifle System) – is the result of intensive
cooperation with the IDF, incorporating
first-hand experience gained in fighting in
densely populated areas. The fire-control
system can be mounted on every rifle (like
INSAS in the picture) and can handle
regular rifle grenades and 40mm launched
grenades. The MPRS configurations, that will further enhance
capabilities on urban and digital battlefields, are demonstrated also in
camera-grenade that transmit over-the-hill pictures to a personal
palm computer

http://www.sibat.mod.gov.il/DefExpo/UploadDocs/sod_imi.pdf

 

[Logan]

First as Kunal said that it has nothing to do with FINSAS.

now about the MPRS system from israel and the UBGL attach to it and how it works

please check this link

http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2005smallarms/thursday/guttel.pdf

Ok so is that being inducted the army,in what numbers as it seems costly.Looks solid though.

 

[Armand2REP]

What do you want? Iron sights used at the same time as the scope? What is the point of that? Either you are in conditions where you need it, or you are not.

View the quick release latch... just squeeze and the scope is gone.

In 1 second the scope is removed, in 2 seconds the scope is replaced. No adjustment is needed as it fits the same every time. The problem with keeping your sights in use with the scope is the sights have to be under the scope, which places the scope too high to line up with the muzzle azimuth. It can't be done if you want an ergonomic scope that comfortably matches with your shoulder.

 

[sayareakd]

Ok so is that being inducted the army,in what numbers as it seems costly.Looks solid though.

no news about that nor it was ever inducted, i had to do lot of googling to find out what MPRS means and how it works, those israelis have now become quite secretive ever since hamas has blown up there markava VI tank.

BTW this is the best kit or add on system i found out for INSAS it gives amazing capabilities specially for anti terror operations in kashmir.