CNSA news, Updates and Discussions

[ketaki]

BTW first images of CCP mars lander are out on Internet

 

[johnq]

You also need an immense economy and industrial complex to do all three but especially the last two.

The colony on the moon will happen. It is too near and too strategic for the earth's major powers not to be there. The US, Russia and China are already there (China in the far side too!)

BUT the startup cost would be in the trillions -- more than the GDPs of nearly all nation except a handful.

China is the already largest economy based on use of resources (it uses fully half of the world's steel) and PPP so it will most likely be one of those with a moon colony. US, of course. Russia has tech but the economy? EU probably.

India? It might be a trade off of your infrastructure on earth versus a moon colony

Anyone else? Probably only as guests of the handful of nations that can afford lunar colonies.

It comes down to GDP and the industrial complex. You cant build one or two spacecraft for a colony. You have to mass produce them.

You are totally missing the point. US and other countries spent trillions to discover this technology, and China had an easy time because either the US willingly shared the technology with China for free, or China stole it from the US through CCP spies and hacking.
Also, the bulk of that money is being spent in wealthy cities with rich CCP members and their pet projects like space colonies and defense. The truth is that most of the GDP is swallowed up by the top 10 percent of the population, which are CCP members in big cities. Instead of spending the money in helping the poor, CCP throws it away in defense and space, as well as to enrich themselves in their big cities.
None of this matters if 50 percent of Chinese are still below poverty level by international standards. CCP is simply using the space program and the military to distract people from this very basic fact that CCP has spent massive amounts of money on defense and space while 50 percent of the population in China is dirt poor.
The following video discusses this in some detail:
Should YOU Be Worried About China? (Honest Answer + Analysis)
The China threat. We have all heard it, however, are we just looking up to China's achievements, regardless of whether they are true or false? Are we ignoring our innate strengths as a multicultural democracy? Is China, led by the CCP, truly a threat? Article - China Isn't 10 Feet Tall https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articl... Check out Peter Santenello https://www.youtube.com/user/santenello

 

[Alien_cat26]

My record of the Long March 7

 

[s002wjh]

You are totally missing the point. US and other countries spent trillions to discover this technology, and China had an easy time because either the US willingly shared the technology with China for free, or China stole it from the US through CCP spies and hacking.
Also, the bulk of that money is being spent in wealthy cities with rich CCP members and their pet projects like space colonies and defense. The truth is that most of the GDP is swallowed up by the top 10 percent of the population, which are CCP members in big cities. Instead of spending the money in helping the poor, CCP throws it away in defense and space, as well as to enrich themselves in their big cities.
None of this matters if 50 percent of Chinese are still below poverty level by international standards. CCP is simply using the space program and the military to distract people from this very basic fact that CCP has spent massive amounts of money on defense and space while 50 percent of the population in China is dirt poor.
The following video discusses this in some detail:
Should YOU Be Worried About China? (Honest Answer + Analysis)
The China threat. We have all heard it, however, are we just looking up to China's achievements, regardless of whether they are true or false? Are we ignoring our innate strengths as a multicultural democracy? Is China, led by the CCP, truly a threat? Article - China Isn't 10 Feet Tall https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articl... Check out Peter Santenello https://www.youtube.com/user/santenello

pretty sure US dont share tech with China, especially space tech. as for stolen, all NASA core tech are on secure network, even their external network have layer upon layers of firewall. If china able to steal it without US knowledge than their cyber offense is MUCH better than US, which is not true. as for personal income, they are still consider developing nation, around $12k GDP/cap. however, all you need to see is how many chinese tourist/student travel oversea to know their income are raising each year. as for corruption, its widely spread in china, but you might want to check india corruption and compare to china.
also you are contradicting yourself, if you are saying they stole tech that mean they dont need spend that much on R&D space tech, however you also said they spend alot $$ on their pet project Its contradicting
Now i'm not chinese but american, and i'm not fan of CCP. however, you need to recognize they achieve something only US able to achieve. and they are quickly catching up, hence why US consider china as Near peer. i mean you can say whatever word about china, but it doesn't change the facts here.

 

[Alien_cat26]

It’s a pity that the Long March 7 rocket launch mission was delayed.

According to official sources from CNSA, The launch of "Tianzhou-2" cargo spacecraft may be delayed due to technical reasons, and the launch will be postponed for further notice

 

[Indx TechStyle]

pretty sure US dont share tech with China, especially space tech.

I think he's referring to 90s era Laurel satellite scam. Those days, US and China used to be best buddies.

US had been trying to slash Japanese economic power (introduced Plaza Accord) and pull down Soviet military superiority (post Sino-Soviet split). A large number of rockets techs were shared and even funded by US to PRC (which improved overall reliability of Chinese rockets and missiles).

Later, China grew too large and became enemy of the US.

lol. You still need a massive, massive industrial complex

You also need an immense economy and industrial complex to do all three but especially the last two.

I'm quite sure they are not referring to military industrial complexes of Bolivia, Uganda or Somalia.
Most of large countries; developed or developing; from US to even Mexico; have diverse industries and knowledge enough to reverse-engineer or at least partially understand each others' complex technologies if get access too.

That's why industrial espionages exist.

 

[rockdog]

That's why industrial espionages exist.

Espionages and common communication both exist. Somehow during 1980's till now US harvested China and India's best brains, so tech spreading is inevitable.

But after 1989, when NASA finally blocked all cooperatino with China, China's space tech was not decreasing but accelarating.

If you check the details of our space tech, we are not using old tech of NASA used 20 years ago, but applied lots of new tech from domestic R&D.

Also before 2000, our internal market dosen't need any space tech. But now every year only in automotive market, we need at least 40 million Beidou Chips, supported by Beidou GPS networks. Such kind of market stimulates huge demands for space tech.

 

[rockdog]

NASA asking money from congress

 

[fire starter]

NASA asking money from congress

Shows picture of Mars but talks about South Pole of moon. Btw USA is already going to the moon.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

But after 1989, when NASA finally blocked all cooperatino with China, China's space tech was not decreasing but accelarating.

If you check the details of our space tech, we are not using old tech of NASA used 20 years ago, but applied lots of new tech from domestic R&D.

Most US embargoes on China related to cooperation and export of space and telecommunication systems were lifted under Clinton's administration after 1996. It included rocket guidance systems, nuclear tech and even MFN status.

US since 70s, saw a new tactical ally in China to nullify Soviets and exceptional waivers for China weren't unusual after Sino-Soviet split. They even convinced China and made it stand against Iranian nuclear program which China itself was aiding earlier, blocked all resolutions against China during their nuclear test in 1996 while themselves sanctioned India in 1998.

Shit got deeper when they realised there was no Soviet but China was going to grow large enough to irritate them. Obviously I don't say that China's strong economic policies, it's large reserves of natural resources and its own efforts to develop human resources weren't a factor.

American internal anti-communist politics never allowed open support but there was a part of political class which wanted China and used to flush any sanction per comfort.

Also before 2000, our internal market dosen't need any space tech. But now every year only in automotive market, we need at least 40 million Beidou Chips, supported by Beidou GPS networks. Such kind of market stimulates huge demands for space tech.

Demands push R&D and industrial production in any case if your country has any significant expertise in aerospace sector.
Nobody denies China has its own R&D now, what we are saying is about it's seeds and it's quite obvious.

Suppose yourself in a civil-war/revolution or colonially torn country. You are leader top scientific institution of your country but unfortunately your country is ruined by wars and hasn't even made a car engine in 100 years.
Your national leaders approach you and point at an advanced western rocket or plane and want you to make something like that? How would do you that?

It's quite obvious you may even need training in west to capture those tech in initial stages to just learn how to do it? If you have ever worked as a supervisor or manager in a factory, you would understand. Since, once you manage to do it effectively, you will keep doing it.

Japanese rockets are complete spin-off of American ones with later improvisations themselves by Japanese once they learnt it. UK got from US. Indian rockets were Soviet inspired vessels mated with French rockets engines produced on license in India which got improved with time.
Chinese ones were sounding rockets and ICBMs inspired from Soviets bit suffered reliability issues till 80s. They imprbed a lot on reliability in 90s with American touch-ups.

 

[no smoking]

Most US embargoes on China related to cooperation and export of space and telecommunication systems were lifted under Clinton's administration after 1996. It included rocket guidance systems, nuclear tech and even MFN status.

This is the myth created by US congress and media.

First of all, there is no rocket guidance system has ever been exported to China. The main debate about this is the US companies' assistance to the investigation of Chinese rocket launch failure for US satellite, which MAY help China to enhance her missile tech. There was no join investigation, both did their own work. However, Americans were worried that the reports given by US companies were not reviewed by security department, so there was possibility that some missiles tech details were leak to Chinese. The fact was these reports were written for the insurance companies and both sides agreed that failures were not caused by navigation system at all.

Another issue is that Chinese LM rockets were built based on Chinese ICBM DF-5 which was already deployed in 1980s, using LM rockets to launch US satellite may provide fund to Chinese military missile program which was suffering budget cut at the time.

Here is one report explaining all these thing:
China: Possible Missile Technology Transfers Under U.S. Satellite Export Policy -- Actions and Chronology - EveryCRSReport.com

If you have any other source, please provide.

The telecommunication systems are generally referred to the US satellites exported to China or use Chinese rockets to launch. It is the same commercial deal as India has been doing.

The nuclear tech exported are civilian nuclear reactor, the same deal signed between India and US.

US since 70s, saw a new tactical ally in China to nullify Soviets and exceptional waivers for China weren't unusual after Sino-Soviet split. They even convinced China and made it stand against Iranian nuclear program which China itself was aiding earlier, blocked all resolutions against China during their nuclear test in 1996 while themselves sanctioned India in 1998.

That is a totally misunderstanding of the situation.
Firstly, the alliance between US and China already terminated when the cold war was over.
Secondly, there was no resolution against China need US to block, because Chinese didn't violate any treaty. The CTBT was effective on 10/09/1996, the last Chinese test was on 29/07/1996.
Thirdly, US can't sanction China in that year because French just finished her last test on 27/01/1996. There was even rumours that 1 of the 3 Chinese tests in 1996 was Sino-French joint work.

On the other hand, India explode her nuclear weapons in 1998 after CTBT. As the first one to challenge CTBT (pushed mostly by US), certainly Americans were pissed by India.

Demands push R&D and industrial production in any case if your country has any significant expertise in aerospace sector.
...... tech in initial stages to just learn how to do it? If you have ever worked as a supervisor or manager in a factory, you would understand. Since, once you manage to do it effectively, you will keep doing it.

Totally agree with these, the only issue is our India friends always forget they have been doing the same thing.

Chinese ones were sounding rockets and ICBMs inspired from Soviets bit suffered reliability issues till 80s. They imprbed a lot on reliability in 90s with American touch-ups.

That is an example of ignorance. Neither Chinese nor Americans are god. No one can improve reliability in merely a few meeting especially when both sides refuse to open their own system.

The causes of the reliability were:
1. the rockets that Chinese put into the commercial market include quite a lot new technologies, certainly bring a lot risk;
2. the Chinese rocket lab/factory/launch site couldn't cope the increased launch frequency. After all, in the past, they were used to deal with one or two mission per year.
3. Most importantly, the last 90s was a turmoil period for China, politically and economically. Millions of workers were laid off, R&D budget was cut to bone (scientists couldn't even get paid), people believe the days of CCP was numbered. During this period, serious quality issues were very popular in the products of state-owned companies.

The situation was improved when people got paid and built more just like everyone else, not some golden inspiration from US side.

 

[Alien_cat26]

China's first Mars rover, Zhurong was successfully deployed on 22 May 2021.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

China's first Mars rover, Zhurong was successfully deployed on 22 May 2021.

That rover is super cute! I love Zhurong!

 

[SexyChineseLady]

China is first country to operate two rovers on two different interplanetary bodies at the same time!!!!


Translation:
With Yutu 2 still active on the Moon, China is the first space power to operate 2 rovers on 2 different bodies of the solar system at the same time!

 

[ketaki]

China is first country to operate two rovers on two different interplanetary bodies at the same time!!!!


Translation:
With Yutu 2 still active on the Moon, China is the first space power to operate 2 rovers on 2 different bodies of the solar system at the same time!

Dont embarrass yourself bro...
With that logic USA is first country to operate 3 missions (two rovers+lander) at the same time on any planetary body...

Such stupid number games are not impressive...only new technology or fresh capability (example: landing on Europa) matters

 

[Mantospace]

Nasa and isro need to send mask and sanitizers to mars and moon as coronavirus reaches there.

 

[no smoking]

Nasa and isro need to send mask and sanitizers to mars and moon as coronavirus reaches there.

No, they need to send these to India first: after all, there are 1.4 b living there but 0 on the mars.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Dont embarrass yourself bro...
With that logic USA is first country to operate 3 missions (two rovers+lander) at the same time on any planetary body...

Such stupid number games are not impressive...only new technology or fresh capability (example: landing on Europa) matters

Nope, China is the first to have a rover in TWO interplanetary bodies at the same time!

 

[fire starter]

No, they need to send these to India first: after all, there are 1.4 b living there but 0 on the mars.

I am damn sure aliens would not like another alien looking creatures reaching on Mars and moon.

 

[Mantospace]

No, they need to send these to India first: after all, there are 1.4 b living there but 0 on the mars.

So enjy these bat eaters. Just ask those families who had loss someone. Enjy their space activities.