Chinese Regional Jets & Airliners

[MiG-29SMT]

you make the assumption there is still a free market where prices regulate purchases/competition/investment. I don't believe there is.
EU doesn't play the game on a level playing field.....state funding, currency destruction, war, conquest..... why would others? Why care what the EU wants to sell?
Must protect your group by doing business within your group....cabalism, mercantilism....(due to limited money within group). In this case don't need to have the best. Just need to have something that can do the job.
Recycling money will give the group time. Time to invest in/create better technology.

Technology is not the trouble the problem is make profits and sell the technology.

In the History of aviation many companies embarked in aircraft programs that bankrupt them.


Example

MD-11 for example represents a clear example the trend was 2 engine aircraft, Airbus started that trend Boeing followed with B-757 and B-767.
MD-11 has 3 for that reason failed, A-300 had 2 and Boeing followed, the trend was less engine more economic efficiency, so most companies stopped building 3 engined aircraft.

Russia for example could not sell Il-96 for the same reason, airliners always want to sell cheaper tickets to get more constant customers, aircraft that offer lower ful burn and cheaper ticket prices then succed.

Embraer skipped the process of making everything made in Brazil and simply took components made by other companies and assembling them in Brazil with few brazilian elements, but who cares as long as they make money, others fail because forget you have to let others benefit so money is more or less distributed Embraer and Airbus are good example of that, ITP and R&R do share technology, both benefit, Spain is a power in jet engine design and manufacturer who cares the end product goes with R&R if they still make money?
That is what our chinese posters they lack to understand

 

[Azaad]

Technology is not the trouble the problem is make profits and sell the technology.

In the History of aviation many companies embarked in aircraft programs that bankrupt them.


Example

View attachment 202883

MD-11 for example represents a clear example the trend was 2 engine aircraft, Airbus started that trend Boeing followed with B-757 and B-767.

Russia for example could not sell Il-96 for the same reason, airliners always want to sell cheaper tickets to get more constant customers, aircraft that offer lower ful burn and cheaper ticket prices then succed.

Embraer skipped the process of making everything made in Brazil and simply took components made by other companies and assembling them in Brazil with few brazilian elements, but who cares as long as they make money, others fail because forget you have to let others benefit so money is more or less distributed Embraer and Airbus are good example of that, ITP and R&R do share technology, both benefit, Spain is a power in jet engine design and manufacturer who cares the end product goes with R&R if they still make money?
That is what our chinese posters they lack to understand

Fwiw, I see the Chinese attempts at building up a civilian aerospace ecosystem go the way of the Soviets before them. Beyond China itself & a few satellite States I don't see it gain traction worldwide.

The US & Europe will see to that. Frankly I'm not unimpressed by Chinese attempts. If they keep at it, they can build up a solid aerospace ecosystem to rival the west. Though they'd face the full brunt of the west's fury then just like in the SMC case.

Ironically the one country which could help by partnering them in their quest for creating an alternative world order, they alienate & keep doing so. Otherwise both India & China have more in common than they've differences. Anyway, it is what it is.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Fwiw, I see the Chinese attempts at building up a civilian aerospace ecosystem go the way of the Soviets before them. Beyond China itself & a few satellite States I don't see it gain traction worldwide.

The US & Europe will see to that. Frankly I'm not unimpressed by Chinese attempts. If they keep at it, they can build up a solid aerospace ecosystem to rival the west.

Ironically the one country which could help them in their quest for creating an alternative world order, they alienate & keep doing so. Otherwise both India & China have more in common than we've differences. Anyway, it is what it is.

As Kurtisbrian said it is normal, the question is what is more benefitial, I mean in Mexico we only build parts and some companies supply parts to big names such s R&R or Bombardier, that has been done by China and India too.

For India the question will be the same, a joint venture or going alone, in the case of China they want to go with Russia in the next airliner but Russia does not trust China and China is the same wants to screw Russia.

In the case of Europe the alliances are between nations share core values and history, Embraer has another tactic, basically is an Airbus type company but just lead by Brazil but buying components from Europe, USA or Japan.

Joint ventures reduce R&D expenses and allow you entering into markets of other countries, Embraer aircraft for such a reson are popular benefit many, China wants total power, but others too know it, the USA and EU know it, so they sanction tech transfers and that affects C919

 

[ym888]

As Kurtisbrian said it is normal, the question is what is more benefitial, I mean in Mexico we only build parts and some companies supply parts to big names such s R&R or Bombardier, that has been done by China and India too.

For India the question will be the same, a joint venture or going alone, in the case of China they want to go with Russia in the next airliner but Russia does not trust China and China is the same wants to screw Russia.

In the case of Europe the alliances are between nations share core values and history, Embraer has another tactic, basically is an Airbus type company but just lead by Brazil but buying components from Europe, USA or Japan.

Joint ventures reduce R&D expenses and allow you entering into markets of other countries, Embraer aircraft for such a reson are popular benefit many, China wants total power, but others too know it, the USA and EU know it, so they sanction tech transfers and that affects C919

Different countries have different visions

China's level is the same as the United States and the European Union

China is not opposed to technological cooperation, but it wants to keep core technologies in its own hand.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Different countries have different visions

China's level is the same as the United States and the European Union

China is not opposed to technological cooperation, but it wants to keep core technologies in its own hand.

United States contrary to what you imply, do cooperate with other nations, some technologies are kept but others are outsourced, B-777 has a lot of parts made in Japan by japanese companies.
As I mentioned before CF-34 engine currently is upgraded in Mexico by GE queretaro.

Even some parts for the american military are made in other countries in example F-35, Technology becomes more and more expensive so joint ventures are common in fact while you claim China designs i can tell you China copies and gets tech transfers, nothing wrong with that every body learns from others, and by the way Airbus is a joint venture of European contries, it is not a national program but an international program.

 

[ym888]

United States contrary to what you imply, do cooperate with other nations, some technologies are kept but others are outsourced, B-777 has a lot of parts made in Japan by japanese companies.
As I mentioned before CF-34 engine currently is upgraded in Mexico by GE queretaro.

Even some parts for the american military is made in other countries in example F-35, Technology becomes more and more expensive so joint ventures are common in fact while you claim China designs i can tell you China copies and gets tech transfers, nothing wrong with that every body learns from others, and by the way Airbus is a joint venture of European contries, it is not a national program but an international program.

All of America's most important strategic technologies are in the United States.



European countries are small and can only compete with Boeing if they band together.



Airbus broke the American monopoly, something that neither Mexico nor Brazil could do. That's the difference in level.



China's future is not Mexico, Brazil.



Maybe some of the c929 parts will come from Mexico



But the c929 is Chinese

 

[MiG-29SMT]

All of America's most important strategic technologies are in the United States.



European countries are small and can only compete with Boeing if they band together.



Airbus broke the American monopoly, something that neither Mexico nor Brazil could do. That's the difference in level.



China's future is not Mexico, Brazil.



Maybe some of the c929 parts will come from Mexico



But the c929 is Chinese

the racist oriental now speaks


Brazil is the 3erd largest aircraft manufacturer, contrary to your simplistic over view. Brazil produces from 150 passenger aircraft to small private jet, has Brazil suceed? yes they have, but they are not fools, Brazil can not compete with Airbus because the line of products Airbus manages now demand more R&D expenses thus it will a program like Bombardier did with Airbus.

Mexico now is one of the main manufacturing hubs for aircraft parts, in fact today in Mexico we build parts for everything from jet engines to large fuselages, and now 30% of the aerospace companies in Mexico are national and domestic.


Your fantasy comes from your idea making everything is to be proud but in aviation like any industry everything is money revenue and proceeds, who cares if Mexico we do not lead a jet engine program? we are already providers and designers of many jet engines, we make money and they make money, if the end product says GE or R&R does not matter as long as money is flowing and our engineers are designing or manufacturing, so pretty much you do not know and understand aviation.

C919 is already obsolete compared to A-321XRL or A-220-300

 

[ym888]

the racist oriental now speaks


Brazil is the 3erd largest aircraft manufacturer, contrary to your simplistic over view. Brazil produces from 15o passenger aircraft to small private jet, has Brazil suceed? yes they have, but they are not fools, Brazil can not compete with Airbus because the line of products Airbus manages now demand more R&D expenses thus it will a program like Bombardier did with Airbus.


Mexico now is one of the main manufacturing hubs for aircraft parts, in fact today in Mexico we build parts for everything from jet engines to large fuselages, and now 30% of the aerospace companies in Mexico are national and domestic.


Your fantasy comes from your idea making everything is to be proud but in aviation like any industry everything is money revenue and proceeds, who cares if Mexico we do not lead a jet engine program? we are already providers and designers of many jet engines, we make money and they make money, if the end product says GE or R&R does not matter as long as money is flowing and our engineers are designing or manufacturing, so pretty much you do not know and understand aviation.

C919 is already obsolete compared to A-321XRL or A-220-300

it's not racist.



China has been supplying parts to Boeing and Airbus for decades.



It's not worth bragging about.



Unless you have the ability to build big planes

 

[MiG-29SMT]

it's not racist.



China has been supplying parts to Boeing and Airbus for decades.



It's not worth bragging about.



Unless you have the ability to build big planes

First learn history aviation and succeed in aviation is a very long process, in 1940 the japanese had one of the best fighters of its time

in the 1950s Argentina had one of the few jet fighters in the world

Pulqui 2 from Argentina

TNCA serie E one of the first fighters in the world built in Mexico 1920s by mexicans designers


So tell me why you are different?


The only difference is you think others can not do it, no aviation is only will and money

 

[SexyChineseLady]

it's not racist.



China has been supplying parts to Boeing and Airbus for decades.



It's not worth bragging about.



Unless you have the ability to build big planes

From building parts and assembling whole aircraft for Airbus to supplying SaFran with alloys for engines -- obviously China partners far more with the Euros than most countries outside Europe and the US. Tianjin is literally the only Airbus assembly plant outside the West:

Longda’s Shares Gain After Chinese Alloy Firm Inks Deal to Supply French Jet Engine Maker

(Yicai Global) Dec. 13 -- Shares of Jiangsu Longda Superalloy rose after a unit of the Chinese alloy producer signed a 10-year supply deal with a French airplane engine manufacturer.

Longda’s stock price [SHA: 688231] closed up 2 percent at CNY37.45 (USD5.37) today, after rising by as much as 3.2 percent in the morning.

Safran Aircraft Engines will buy high-temperature alloys used in making key aviation and aerospace parts from Jiangsu Longda Superalloy Material, according to an agreement they signed on Dec. 9, its Wuxi-based parent firm said yesterday, without disclosing any other details.

Longda’s annual production capacity of high-temperature alloys, the cornerstone of advanced plane engine manufacture, will increase to 8,000 tons from 6,000 tons by the end of the year after new capacity comes on stream, the firm told visiting institutional investors last month. The products have already been used in aircraft engines, gas turbines, and other equipment, it said.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Fwiw, I see the Chinese attempts at building up a civilian aerospace ecosystem go the way of the Soviets before them. Beyond China itself & a few satellite States I don't see it gain traction worldwide.

The US & Europe will see to that. Frankly I'm not unimpressed by Chinese attempts. If they keep at it, they can build up a solid aerospace ecosystem to rival the west. Though they'd face the full brunt of the west's fury then just like in the SMC case.

Ironically the one country which could help by partnering them in their quest for creating an alternative world order, they alienate & keep doing so. Otherwise both India & China have more in common than they've differences. Anyway, it is what it is.

China and India actually talked about Chinese joining the LCA back in the 1990s.

The 100 passenger plane would have seen India in the ARJ-21 program. Ah, what could have been!

 

[Azaad]

China and India actually talked about Chinese joining the LCA back in the 1990s.

View attachment 202899

The 100 passenger plane would have seen India in the ARJ-21 program. Ah, what could have been!

Let me guess , this is the Chinese media reporting it ! Coz India neither sought SAAB nor BAe nor Dassault as partners though we've consulted with each one of them on different aspects of the project.

As far as even talks of collaboration with China goes that boat sailed in 1962. There's no going forward on any such ventures ever , since that date .

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Let me guess , this is the Chinese media reporting it ! Coz India neither sought SAAB nor BAe nor Dassault as partners though we've consulted with each one of them on different aspects of the project.

As far as even talks of collaboration with China goes that boat sailed in 1962. There's no going forward on any such ventures ever , since that date .

Not Chinese media. Report came from Indian press. I only have this clip right now but it is originally from a picture of a full page of an Indian newspaper. I'll post here once I find it again.

 

[Azaad]

Not Chinese media. Report came from Indian press. I only have this clip right now but it is originally from a picture of a full page of an Indian newspaper. I'll post here once I find it again.

Pls do . We're awaiting it with bated breath. Must say the amount of homework you do for putting in an appearance in a non descrepit site like this is commendable. Makes one imagine the kind of resources Zhongguo can deploy in a full scale conflict with any state .

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Pls do . We're awaiting it with bated breath. Must say the amount of homework you do for putting in an appearance in a non descrepit site like this is commendable. Makes one imagine the kind of resources Zhongguo can deploy in a full scale conflict with any state .

Thanks, I saw it posted on Twitter from an Indian defense poster

Zhongguo's resources on the economic and scientific front is on an unimaginable scale -- think HSR and "Ghost Cities." Its propaganda resources, not so much

 

[SexyChineseLady]

 

[Azaad]

Its propaganda resources, not so much

I totally believe you lady. You're an honest Chinese . As honest as they come .

 

[Azaad]

View attachment 202902

Looks like an American publication. At any rate a western one .

 

[rockdog]

From building parts and assembling whole aircraft for Airbus to supplying SaFran with alloys for engines -- obviously China partners far more with the Euros than most countries outside Europe and the US. Tianjin is literally the only Airbus assembly plant outside the West:

Longda’s Shares Gain After Chinese Alloy Firm Inks Deal to Supply French Jet Engine Maker

(Yicai Global) Dec. 13 -- Shares of Jiangsu Longda Superalloy rose after a unit of the Chinese alloy producer signed a 10-year supply deal with a French airplane engine manufacturer.

Longda’s stock price [SHA: 688231] closed up 2 percent at CNY37.45 (USD5.37) today, after rising by as much as 3.2 percent in the morning.

Safran Aircraft Engines will buy high-temperature alloys used in making key aviation and aerospace parts from Jiangsu Longda Superalloy Material, according to an agreement they signed on Dec. 9, its Wuxi-based parent firm said yesterday, without disclosing any other details.

Longda’s annual production capacity of high-temperature alloys, the cornerstone of advanced plane engine manufacture, will increase to 8,000 tons from 6,000 tons by the end of the year after new capacity comes on stream, the firm told visiting institutional investors last month. The products have already been used in aircraft engines, gas turbines, and other equipment, it said.

I have a feeling that, maybe the Chinese aviation will follow the EV path, built a local market for its own product, and when the time is right, switch to EP.

Chinese auto makers couldn't competition with western brands on engine and grearbox tech. It was smart to switch the lane. for EP it's would be faster than our expectations.

Maybe it would start from a hybrid structure combine cj1000 + some catl battery.

China's CATL unveils condensed matter battery to power civil aircraft

Chinese battery giant CATL on Wednesday unveiled a condensed matter battery that it said could supply enough energy to power electric passenger aircraft for civil aviation use.

www.reuters.com

 

[SexyChineseLady]

I have a feeling that, maybe the Chinese aviation will follow the EV path, built a local market for its own product, and when the time is right, switch to EP.

China auto couldn't competition with western brands on engine and grearbox tech. It was smart to switch the lane. it's would be faster than our expectations.

China's CATL unveils condensed matter battery to power civil aircraft

Chinese battery giant CATL on Wednesday unveiled a condensed matter battery that it said could supply enough energy to power electric passenger aircraft for civil aviation use.

www.reuters.com

Chinese ICE autos are pretty good too and their manufacture is on an epic scale but they don't have the marketing clout of the established players. Everyone starts fresh with EVs.

China's gas turbine powered aircraft industries will be epic too but won't match the marketing clout (and slanted regulations) that entrench the Boeing-Airbus duopoly. But everything will start fresh with EP aircraft though battery size for airliners might be prohibitive unless there is a very massive leap in technology.

China has a major nuclear power program including mini-reactors. Now that can power flight as well as moonbases and floating settlements in the open ocean

China Makes World's First Small Modular Nuclear Reactor

The China made world's first small modular nuclear reactor heats up helium instead of water to produce power.

tech.hindustantimes.com

China is Home to World's First Small Modular Nuclear Reactor

China continues to stake its claim as the world’s biggest proponent of new nuclear energy technology, connecting its first small modular reactor to the power grid.

www.bloomberg.com