Chinese Regional Jets & Airliners

[Indx TechStyle]

True but it is still a very limited club. The Y-10 was developed in the 1970s and flew in 1980. Very early, before China was anywhere near what it is today. Imagine if they stayed with the program.

That isn't our topic. China has always been far ahead of any non-western country in aviation barring Russia and no one disputes that.

This is true because they had the biggest market along with full control on production....with China and India being huge markets by themselves, if they can build the tech themselves then this duopoly would make no difference anymore....India is way out but China is kinda there and with sanctions thrown around they might even accelerate it.

There will be 8000 airliners bought by China in the coming years. COMAC will get a chunk of that if the Chinese government stays the course (unlike with the Y-10.) It will be enough to make the industry viable even if the US don't give them certification.

If US doesn't give them certification, you can't fly them outside China. And US & France will never let them get certification. Civil aviation is dominated by these two countries and this duopoly isn't going away in next 2-3 decades.

So, unlesa provided one of these happens, Boeing and Airbus can't be challenged by anyone.

1. If any trade war pro max happens divding standards around world.
2. At least a dozen countries around the world develop different types of airliners. They collectively agree with each other and ignore the regulations made by ICAO.

Nor I foresee any of these happening in this decade nor I even expect CCP to certify and operate it's planes in large numbers within their country.
Safety in civil aviation is a grim matter and no sane government would ever trust anything which has not been tested with time and situation.
So, I don't see Chinese aviation buying 8000 aircrafts a brand new model in haste unless they are out of their minds. They would wait for product to be mature & ripe.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

That isn't our topic. China has always been far ahead of any non-western country in aviation barring Russia and no one disputes that.


If US doesn't give them certification, you can't fly them outside China. And US & France will never let them get certification. Civil aviation is dominated by these two countries and this duopoly isn't going away in next 2-3 decades.

So, unlesa provided one of these happens, Boeing and Airbus can't be challenged by anyone.

1. If any trade war pro max happens divding standards around world.
2. At least a dozen countries around the world develop different types of airliners. They collectively agree with each other and ignore the regulations made by ICAO.

Nor I foresee any of these happening in this decade nor I even expect CCP to certify and operate it's planes in large numbers within their country.
Safety in civil aviation is a grim matter and no sane government would ever trust anything which has not been tested with time and situation.
So, I don't see Chinese aviation buying 8000 aircrafts a brand new model in haste unless they are out of their minds. They would wait for product to be mature & ripe.

China (like Russia and India) is a continental-sized country. Everything up to the CR929 can be used within its borders from practical standpoint. But they can also fly to the global south like the Soviet airliners had done in the past. Also, countries embargoed by the West will use airliners without Western certification --- between China and Russia alone there are both massive geographical distances and populations that make business sense. Not being certified by the West does not mean they are uncertified. In time, countries that can build aircraft and use those aircraft will build a record that supports certification.

It won't be quick but it cannot happen at all unless the home market is protected and the government is dedicated -- just like the EU was to Airbus. The ARJ-21 is currently racking up passenger-miles and flight-time despite being behind Airbus and Boeing in fuel efficiency. As long as COMAC can demonstrate safety then there is a chance for the industry to improve with subsequent models.

But if you are determined to accept only the best fuel-efficiency right now and a proven safety record that a new plane is never given a chance to have then you will always end up with a model from the duopoly and the local industry cannot never get off the ground.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

C919 minimum unstick speed test. The tail actually strikes the ground -- it is actually part of the test requirements!

 

[SexyChineseLady]

China is in mourning. 132 died in a Boeing 737 crash from Kunming to Guangzhou. It was not a 737 MAX which is still grounded in China but the 737-800 which also has had a series of pretty deadly crashes.

 

[KurtisBrian]

China is in mourning. 132 died in a Boeing 737 crash from Kunming to Guangzhou. It was not a 737 MAX which is still grounded in China but the 737-800 which also has had a series of pretty deadly crashes.

Black Box Data Reportedly Suggest China Eastern Jet Crash Was Intentional

Data from a black box recovered from the wreckage of a China Eastern Boeing 737-800 jet that crashed in March, killing all 132 onboard, indicate someone in the cockpit intentionally caused the plane to crash, the Wall Street Journal reported on Tuesday.

Black Box Data Reportedly Suggest China Eastern Jet Crash Was Intentional

The Wall Street Journal reported that the data indicates someone in the cockpit pushed the plane into a fatal nosedive, killing all 132 onboard.

www.forbes.com

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Decades after the Chinese government terminated a 150-passenger airliner program in what was considered a strategic mistake, the COMAC C919, the spiritual descendant of the Y-10 is nearing certification and this time the domestic aircraft has the support of the state:

A long flight since Shanghai Y-10, China's COMAC C919 domestic large passenger plane close to certification

The state-owned Chinese aircraft manufacturer Commercial Aviation Corporation of China (COMAC) announced on the 24th

frontierindia.com

 

[MiG-29SMT]

That isn't our topic. China has always been far ahead of any non-western country in aviation barring Russia and no one disputes that.


If US doesn't give them certification, you can't fly them outside China. And US & France will never let them get certification. Civil aviation is dominated by these two countries and this duopoly isn't going away in next 2-3 decades.

So, unlesa provided one of these happens, Boeing and Airbus can't be challenged by anyone.

1. If any trade war pro max happens divding standards around world.
2. At least a dozen countries around the world develop different types of airliners. They collectively agree with each other and ignore the regulations made by ICAO.

Nor I foresee any of these happening in this decade nor I even expect CCP to certify and operate it's planes in large numbers within their country.
Safety in civil aviation is a grim matter and no sane government would ever trust anything which has not been tested with time and situation.
So, I don't see Chinese aviation buying 8000 aircrafts a brand new model in haste unless they are out of their minds. They would wait for product to be mature & ripe.

Manufacture is not the problem, but commercialization, Brazil is the only BRICS nation to really entered the aviation market, but being honest Embraer has American investment thus licenses or technology is no problem since they can get western technology

Another problem is the Market is shared, American aircraft sometimes have engines made in joint ventures and European aircraft too, basically Airbus or Boeing power their aircraft with common engines and same is their avionics.

Definitively Embraer is not 100 % Brazilian, it has a lot of European or American technology and same is A-220.

But in commercial aviation safety and share technology is a fact.

The Russians are barred to do not let them grow, and China will have the same trouble, but in reality aviation is a globalized endevour thus no one really makes a 100% domestic commercial aircraft

 

[SexyChineseLady]

ARJ-21: Five million passengers carried, 68 in servics, 100 built, annual production rate of 50!

https://simpleflying.com/comac-arj21-5-millionth-passenger/amp/

 

[MiG-29SMT]

ARJ-21: Five million passengers carried, 68 in servics, 100 built, annual production rate of 50!

https://simpleflying.com/comac-arj21-5-millionth-passenger/amp/

Pure propaganda

reality is Embraer Strategy is far far successful

When Brazilian aerospace manufacturer Embraer came up with the concept for its E-Jet family of aircraft, the idea was to build a small jet for the regional market with a large jet feel. Today, the Embraer E-Jet family is the industry's most successful 70 to 150 seat commercial passenger jet and is in service with more than 80 airlines worldwide.

In 2011 Embraer announced that it planned to upgrade its E-Jets with new, improved engines and new technology to help improve fuel efficiency. Now called the E2 family, the planes would also have new wings and improved avionics to help compete against the Mitsubishi Regional Jet. The new E2 family also features a larger 120 to 146 seat variant called the E195-E2 that can allow Embraer to compete with the Airbus A220.

https://simpleflying.com/embraer-e-jet-20-years/

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Embraer Expects To Sell Up To 180 Planes In 2022
BYANDREW CURRAN
PUBLISHED MAR 10, 2022
After posting a US$44.7 million loss for 2021, Embraer is returning to form, saying it believes it can sell up to 180 jets this year.

Brazilian aircraft manufacturer Embraer has high hopes for 2022, predicting commercial jet deliveries of 60-70 aircraft and executive jet deliveries of 100-110 aircraft for a total of 160 - 180 deliveries and expected revenues of between US$4.5 - 5 billion. The bullish outlook comes as Embraer announced a small profit of $2.1 million for the last quarter of 2021. Losses across 2021 totaled $44.7 million.
This compares to a 2021 delivery total of 141 jets, comprising 48 commercial aircraft and 93 executive jets (62 light and 31 mid-size). Embraer ended the year with the highest delivery backlog in three years. The value of that backlog was approximately $17 billion.

https://simpleflying.com/embraer-2022-aircraft-sales-forecast/

 

[rockdog]

China's home-grown C919 jet nears certification as test planes complete tasks

China's home-grown C919 jet nears certification as test planes complete tasks

China's homegrown C919 narrow-body jet, designed to challenge the Airbus-Boeing duopoly, is nearing certification as its test planes completed all of the test flight tasks, the company said on Saturday.

www.reuters.com

The fifth prototype of China's home-built C919 passenger plane takes off for its first test flight from Shanghai Pudong International Airport in Shanghai, China October 24, 2019. Picture taken October 24, 2019. REUTERS/Stringer
Register now for FREE unlimited access to Reuters.com
SHANGHAI, July 23 (Reuters) - China's homegrown C919 narrow-body jet, designed to challenge the Airbus-Boeing (AIR.PA)(BA.N) duopoly, is nearing certification as its test planes completed all of the test flight tasks, the company said on Saturday.

The state-owned manufacturer Commercial Aircraft Corp of China (COMAC) said on its official social media account that the six test planes have finished the testing tasks as the programme enters the final stage of receiving a certificate from the Civil Aviation Administration of China which is required for commercial operations.

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That would mark a milestone in China's ambitions to climb up the manufacturing supply chain.

Designed to compete directly with the Boeing 737 MAX and Airbus 320neo families, the C919 aircraft programme has faced a range of technical issues and tougher U.S. export controls, after being launched in 2008, Reuters has reported. read more

The launch customer is the state-owned China Eastern Airlines (600115.SS), which has placed an order for five C919 jets in March last year. Changjiang Daily, a newspaper owned by the local government of Wuhan, said in a report on July 8 the airline is scheduled to take the first delivery in August.

 

[rockdog]

Pure propaganda

reality is Embraer Strategy is far far successful

Embraer is successful dosen't mean ARJ‘s production and operation is failing ... this is quite simple logic.

Meanwhile the true failed counterpart

Japan cancels Spacejet registration for the first time

Japan cancels Spacejet registration for the first time | News | Airfinance Journal

Japan has cancelled the registration of the third Mitsubishi Spacejet regional aircraft.

www.airfinancejournal.com

After six delays, 10+ years of development, and nearly $9 billion (1 trillion yen) spent, Mitsubishi announced in 2020 that development on its Mitsubishi Regional Jet or the SpaceJet would be frozen.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Embraer is successful dosen't mean ARJ‘s production and operation is failing ... this is quite simple logic.

Meanwhile the true failed counterpart

Japan cancels Spacejet registration for the first time

Japan cancels Spacejet registration for the first time | News | Airfinance Journal

Japan has cancelled the registration of the third Mitsubishi Spacejet regional aircraft.

www.airfinancejournal.com

After six delays, 10+ years of development, and nearly $9 billion (1 trillion yen) spent, Mitsubishi announced in 2020 that development on its Mitsubishi Regional Jet or the SpaceJet would be frozen.

Yeah that weirdo makes no sense. Why stop at Embraer? Airbus and Boeing are doing well too!

The MRA is truly dead because there is no support. Brazil does not have better tech than Japan but they do support Embraer better. Just like the EU supported Airbus.

China is supporting the ARJ-21 and COMAC.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Embraer is successful dosen't mean ARJ‘s production and operation is failing ... this is quite simple logic.

Meanwhile the true failed counterpart

Japan cancels Spacejet registration for the first time

Japan cancels Spacejet registration for the first time | News | Airfinance Journal

Japan has cancelled the registration of the third Mitsubishi Spacejet regional aircraft.

www.airfinancejournal.com

After six delays, 10+ years of development, and nearly $9 billion (1 trillion yen) spent, Mitsubishi announced in 2020 that development on its Mitsubishi Regional Jet or the SpaceJet would be frozen.

Yeah that weirdo makes no sense. Why stop at Embraer? Airbus and Boeing are doing well too!

The MRA is truly dead because there is no support. Brazil does not have better tech than Japan but they do support Embraer better. Just like the EU supported Airbus.

China is supporting the ARJ-21 and COMAC.

technology is not the issue, but market and after service, Japan can not squeeze out Embraer from the market for several reasons.

Embraer aircraft uses technology from both the US and Europe, so they do not compete with Airbus or Boeing directly.

Brazil has good reputation as keeping licenses or intellectual rights (not the case of China)

Many companies that help Airbus or Boeing also help Embraer. but E-jets do not compete directly with A-320 or B-737, thus they do not duplicate competion.

Embraer has some American ownership, thus it helps the US Economy directly and indirectly.

Antonov was destroyed simply because their Aircraft had Russian participation so Airbus or Boeing never help it.

The Reality is Russia does not need China beyond Market, Russia is building a twin engined Il-96

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Yeah that weirdo makes no sense. Why stop at Embraer? Airbus and Boeing are doing well too!

The MRA is truly dead because there is no support. Brazil does not have better tech than Japan but they do support Embraer better. Just like the EU supported Airbus.

China is supporting the ARJ-21 and COMAC.

bla bla blah

Il-96 with two PD-35 engines may appear in 2025
08/09/2019, 14:40 11 962
The state will allocate $3 billion for the creation of the PD-35 high-thrust aircraft engine of the projected Russian-Chinese ShFDMS CR929, said Alexander Inozemtsev, Managing Director, General Designer of UEC-Aviadvigatel JSC.

He also said that the IL-96 with two PD-35 engines may appear in 2025, the customer is the presidential administration.

Ил-96 с двумя двигателями ПД-35 может появиться в 2025 году » Авиация России

На создание авиадвигателя большой тяги ПД-35 проектируемого российско-китайского ШФДМС CR929 государство выделит $3 млрд. Об этом сообщил управляющий

aviation21.ru

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Embraer is successful dosen't mean ARJ‘s production and operation is failing ... this is quite simple logic.

Meanwhile the true failed counterpart

Japan cancels Spacejet registration for the first time

Japan cancels Spacejet registration for the first time | News | Airfinance Journal

Japan has cancelled the registration of the third Mitsubishi Spacejet regional aircraft.

www.airfinancejournal.com

After six delays, 10+ years of development, and nearly $9 billion (1 trillion yen) spent, Mitsubishi announced in 2020 that development on its Mitsubishi Regional Jet or the SpaceJet would be frozen.

Plans to create a modernized version of the Il-96 with two engines instead of four remain, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Yury Borisov told reporters on the sidelines of the Tyumen Oil and Gas Forum. “Yes, it [the twin-engine version of the aircraft] is being considered if the work on the PD-35 engine is completed on time,” Borisov said. – You know that the development of the PD-35 engine is underway in Perm as part of the creation of a Russian-Chinese wide-body aircraft. The presence of this engine will give a new life to the aircraft (IL-96 - TASS note). This is one of the branches along which we, apparently, will go. The aircraft from the point of view of the overall design is very successful. The Deputy Prime Minister noted that now the aircraft is equipped with four PS-90A engines. Replacing the engines will require extensive modernization and redesign of the wing, he added.
Source: http://nevskii-bastion.ru/il-96-400m/ MTS "NEVSKY BASTION" A.V.Karpenko

 

[rockdog]

View attachment 166657

Plans to create a modernized version of the Il-96 with two engines instead of four remain, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Yury Borisov told reporters on the sidelines of the Tyumen Oil and Gas Forum. “Yes, it [the twin-engine version of the aircraft] is being considered if the work on the PD-35 engine is completed on time,” Borisov said. – You know that the development of the PD-35 engine is underway in Perm as part of the creation of a Russian-Chinese wide-body aircraft. The presence of this engine will give a new life to the aircraft (IL-96 - TASS note). This is one of the branches along which we, apparently, will go. The aircraft from the point of view of the overall design is very successful. The Deputy Prime Minister noted that now the aircraft is equipped with four PS-90A engines. Replacing the engines will require extensive modernization and redesign of the wing, he added.
Source: http://nevskii-bastion.ru/il-96-400m/ MTS "NEVSKY BASTION" A.V.Karpenko

Do you think at current situation, Russian has enough resource or market to do so?

Russian 's plan is as on time as Indian's :

News on 2015

Russia is moving ahead with plans to develop a new aircraft carrier

Russia is moving ahead with plans to develop a new aircraft carrier

The model of the carrier will be debuted to international audiences in the beginning of July.

www.google.com

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Do you think at current situation, Russian has enough resource or market to do so?

Russian 's plan is as on time as Indian's :

News on 2015

Russia is moving ahead with plans to develop a new aircraft carrier

Russia is moving ahead with plans to develop a new aircraft carrier

The model of the carrier will be debuted to international audiences in the beginning of July.

www.google.com

what Russia will or will not do time will tell, but aviation is highly dependent on cooperation the elites are always to blame, Antonov was a great company limited by politics

 

[SexyChineseLady]

C919 is finally certified!

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Super cool purple livery on ARJ-21!