C-17 Globemaster III (IAF)

[Armand2REP]

whats the use of that ? and of the C017 is doing that then it vulnerable to enemy fire

The use is this and no, a C-17 does not fly slow enough to do it.

 

[ahmedsid]

The use is this and no, a C-17 does not fly slow enough to do it.

Did the Pilot in this Survive?

 

[nandu]

US Congress clears C-17 sale for India

Los Angeles/New Delhi, June 2 – The US Congress has cleared the sale of C-17 Globemaster III strategic lift aircraft for India.

The Obama administration had notified the Congress April 23 of the potential sale of 10 aircraft to India and sought out objections or approval.

The Congressional consent has come before Wednesday's start of the Indo-US strategic dialogue in Washington Wednesday.

The aircraft are being sold to India under the US government's Foreign Military Sales (FMS) programme, with the maximum package value of $5.8 billion. That includes the 3.8 percent administrative fee the government charges to ensure timely delivery and guarantee the supplies.

Government-to-government deals may not necessarily be cheaper but ensure a hassle-free environment and a near-zero scope for corruption. In legal terms, such deals also ensure sovereign guarantees.

According to a report in India Strategic magazine, in the case of Gorshkov deal with Russia, after the recent agreement between New Delhi and Moscow, Moscow agreed to ensure the aircraft carrier's delivery by Dec 4, 2012 — just before the Indian Navy Day.

During the discussions to revise the 2004 Gorshkov agreement between the two countries, Russia also ensured that work on rebuilding the carrier was not stopped.

The actual cost of the C-17 aircraft for India would be less as India would not be buying all the options and the 3.8 percent fee would be payable only on the actual amount of the deal. In some countries, the administrative fee ranges up to 18 percent.

Boeing India's Vice President for Defense, Space and Security, Vivek Lall, told India Strategic from Washington: 'We are pleased that India's intent to buy 10 C-17 Globemaster III has received US Congressional approval. With this, the Indian government is one step closer to acquiring the C-17 which we believe is ideally suited to meet India's airlift needs for military and humanitarian purposes.

'The submittal of the Letter of Acceptance to the government of India will be the next step towards finalizing the Foreign Military Sale.'

The Indian Air Force (IAF) Chief of Staff, Air Chief Marshal P.V. Naik, said last year that IAF was looking for 10 plus 10 C-17s, described in its parlance as VHTAC, or Very Heavy Transport Aircraft, as a replacement for its ageing fleet of Soviet vintage IL-76 transport jets.

India has 17 IL-76 transporters, another six as IL-78 midair refuelers and one as an AWACS with Israeli Phalcon electronic rodome radar.

But IL-76 is out of production after the demise of the Soviet Union, and whatever useable airframes were available, they have mostly been taken by China.

An IL-76 can carry up to 45 tonnes of cargo while a C-17 can carry about 75 tonnes, and for a much longer range. A C-17 can land from grassy, football field size strips and needs only three crew members as against seven for an IL-76.

It does cost much more though.

The US Air Force has ordered a total of 223 C-17s, out of which 198 have been delivered. The 199th, shown to the Indian media team at its Boeing manufacturing facility at Long Beach, is set to join its designated squadron.

Boeing plans to continue production for about five years to ensure deliveries to the US Air Force (24), the United Emirates (six), Britain (seven) and India (10).

It should take India approximately three years to get the first C-17 after the formal agreement between the two countries is signed.

http://www.indiatalkies.com/2010/06/congress-clears-c17-sale-india.html

 

[AJSINGH]

The use it to airdrop weapon equipments. Thats edge C17 has on others. And what fool would fly any aircraft (c17 or An124 or Dornier) close down to enemy setups ?

they do not do that tree top heights , the minimum height is 100ft

 

[mayfair]

$5.8 billion for 10 planes??? Hell why don't we go for A380 for that amount...can get more than 10 for that

 

[Patriot]

Boeing Offers to Reduce C-17 Cost

India Defence Online, New Delhi — Due to the obsolescence of the current fleet of Russian-built IL-76 aircraft, India has decided that it will procure the C-17 Globemaster III by Boeing as its next military transport aircraft. This defence deal will be pursued through the Foreign Military Sales (FMS), wherein the deal will be between the US and Indian government.

Although the steep price tag of $5.8 billion for ten C-17 Globemaster III aircraft is being considered as a downside of the deal, Boeing is trying to convince India that the price will come down since the deal will be determined by the requirement of the Indian Air Force (IAF). Besides, India may not need many of the services and parts which the US may be offering in the military aircraft deal.

It may be noted that India has rejected the Communications Interoperability and Security Memorandum of Agreement (CISMOA) and the Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement for Geo-spatial Cooperation. Hence, it has been notified that India's C-17s will not be fitted with secure communications (COMSEC) equipment Global Positioning System (GPS) security devices and other equipment. However, Boeing has confirmed that India was joining the Globemaster III Sustainment Partnership (GSP) for the maintenance of the C-17 and that the notification to the US Congress included that cost.

While the IL-76 transport aircraft with the Indian forces have been their workhorse for a long time, India opted for the costlier but more versatile aircraft like the C-17 for many reasons. Importantly, the C-17 can operate from short, mud-paved landing strips such as those on the border areas and can lift 75 tonne payloads to anywhere in China, Central Asia, the Gulf countries and much of Southeast Asia, without refuelling. The C-17 is capable of carrying 188 passengers or 102 fully-kitted paratroopers. The C-17 can also transport a battle-loaded 'Arjun' T-90 tank or a Chinook helicopter with its rotors dismantled.

In 2009, India had problems with the US in the C-130 J transport aircraft deal since many of the on-board systems were not being cleared for sale by the US government due to India's rejection of the CISMOA and other agreements. It is assumed that the FMS route for the acquisition of the C-17 aircraft will not be hampered by similar issues this time again.

Indian defence news and strategic intelligence




http://indiadefenceonline.com/1978/boeing-offers-to-reduce-c-17-cost/

 

[RAM]

Boeing, C-17 workers in federal mediation

LONG BEACH - Boeing and striking C-17 members have returned to the bargaining table with a federal labor mediator as the parties seek to end a walkout now in its third week. The meeting is the first since some 1,700 line workers walked off the job May 11, a week after 80 percent of union members rejected a proposed 46-month contract. The strike has brought production of the massive C-17 airlifter to a halt, potentially threatening supply lines in 43 states. Boeing management met with the United Aerospace Workers Local 148 and representatives from the union's national and international offices after being contacted Wednesday by the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service.
The meeting began Thursday and is expected to continue today, said Boeing spokeswoman Cindy Anderson. While the strike has shuttered the assembly line, the plant's 3,000 other workers have continued reporting to jobs in sales, marketing, research and other functions. The plant is scheduled to close in 2012, but an order for 10 C-17s by the Indian Air Force, and potential orders by other countries in Asia and the Middle East may keep the plant humming through mid-decade. The United States Air Force operates nearly 200 C-17s at bases across the globe now and has about a dozen more on order, but Defense Sec. Robert Gates has asked Congress to halt any new orders in the 2011 federal budget.
http://www.presstelegram.com/news/ci_15222100

 

[nandu]

Boeing to deliver 199th C-17 aircraft to USAF June-end

2010-06-06 14:20:00

The US Air Force (USAF) will get its 199th C-17 Globemaster-III strategic lift aircraft June-end.

The aircraft has successfully been test flown and is due for delivery to its designated squadron, a company spokesman told India Strategic.

The aircraft was shown to an Indian media team recently at its Long Beach manufacturing facility as part of Boeing's efforts to showcase the capability of this aircraft to various countries for possible sale.

The latest version of the aircraft is marked Block 18, and that is what is on offer to India.

The C-17 programme will end in about five years, just after Boeing delivers the last and 223rd of this highly successful strategic lift aircraft to the USAF, and some others to international customers.

The production is being slowed to keep the manufacturing facility going for some time longer, just in case there are more orders, particularly in view of the aircraft's utility in humanitarian assistance and disaster relief role.

According to Tommy Dunehew, Vice President, Boeing's Global Mobility Systems, Boeing is committed along with the US Government to support and service the aircraft for their lifetime, say another 30 to 40 years. The spares will be produced amply for a global supply chain.

The Indian Air Force (IAF) has decided to buy 10 C-17 Globemaster III aircraft to replace and augment its fleet of 17 Soviet vintage IL 76 aircraft which should retire in about 10-15 years.

IAF acquired the first lot of its six IL 76 aircraft in April 1985. The IL 76 is now out of production, although Russia has been able to sell some of its second-hand machines after refurbishing them to some countries.

India with its order for 10 C-17s is the largest non-US customer, followed by the United Arab Emirates (UAE), which ordered six of these aircraft last year.

India should get its fist C-17 in about two to three years after signing the Letter of Acceptance (LoA) with the US government, now that US Congressional approval has been accorded to the Indo-US deal in this regard.

Dunehew said that normally, it should take about three years to deliver an aircraft. But if India wanted, the delivery period could be cut short as Boeing could request other customers to delay their deliveries.

Notably, barring an odd case of pilot error or attacks in combat, the aircraft has never had any accident, said Dunehew.

http://sify.com/news/boeing-to-deli...-june-end-news-international-kggoubfchah.html

 

[youngindian]

June-end user trails for Boeing C-17 Globemaster in India

Thu, Jun 10, 2010

The Boeing C-17 Globemaster III strategic airlifter will undergo user-trails by the Indian Air Force (IAF) during the last week of June 2010. The C-17 will fly into India for the trails in a fortnight's time from where it will fly to airfields for hot and cold weather trials, June-end user trails for Boeing C-17Globemaster in India informed sources said. The trails should help to speedily wrap up the deal for up to 10 aircraft as sought by the IAF.If the sale formalities and the various inter-governmental agreements are concluded over the next 10 to 12 months, then the aircraft should be in IAF service in the next three years.

The aircraft has been requested by New Delhi for sale under the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) program under which the U.S. government will deal directly with the Indian government. The FMS route is considered a faster way of procurement than direct negotiations with the concerned companies.

India's strategic airlift requirements are currently met by the IL-76 and An-32 aircraft both of which are ageing and the IAF's need to speedily transport men and material to trouble spots and scenes of natural disaster has increased substantially over the last few years. The need for a strategic airlifter was sorely felt during the Mumbai terrorist attacks when commandos had to be flown in by commercial airlines and equipment by other means.

During the course of a media briefing in New Delhi on June 9, Boeing's Vice President Business Development, Global Mobility Systems, Tommy Dunehew confirmed that the user trails had been set for this "summer" without elaborating on the timeframe or the date.

He said the C-17 was meant for operations in adverse weather conditions and could carry back-to-back missions and will substantially add to the IAF's capability to rapidly move men and equipment from base to the operational theatre. For example, the C-17 could carry three Advanced Light Helicopters (ALH) in its belly besides a complement of their crew and soldiers.

He said internationally, the C-17 has acquired a reputation for timely delivery of equipment and supplies. "People are happy to see the C-17, as they know that the aircraft is bringing help. Its multi-mission capabilities allow it to be configured as an airborne hospital, a troop carrier, a specialist equipment carrier and for airdrop of aid material." When asked about the high price tag of the C-17, reported to be $580 million, Dunehew declined to comment on the price stating that it was a subject of inter-government negotiations.

However, criticism has arisen with some analysts questioning that for the price of one C-17, around 10 Il-76 aircraft could be bought.Those in favor of the C-17 contend that the Boeing plane can deliver more cargo, at faster speed and faster turnaround time as compared to any other heavy lift aircraft and this could mean the difference between success and failure during a critical mission.


http://www.defenseworld.net/go/defe...r trails for Boeing C-17 Globemaster in India

 

[nrj]

Boeing Proposes Asia Consortium For C-17s

NEW DELHI - With financial resources scarce, many Asian countries have been receptive to Boeing's idea of forming a consortium for its C-17 heavy-lift transport aircraft similar to the one implemented by NATO, although it is likely to take a couple of years to work out the details, according to the company.

Within NATO, 12 nations share three C-17s based in Hungary. "It is somewhat like a timeshare," says Tommy Duneshaw, vice president of global mobility systems for Boeing. Participating countries are allocated flight hours according to their participation. The 12 nations are Bulgaria, Estonia, Finland, Hungary, Lithuania, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Romania, Slovenia, Sweden, and the U.S.

However, selling the idea to Asian countries is a bit more complicated than for Europe. While bilateral agreements exist among nations, there are no multilateral agreements.

"We are talking to major players," Duneshaw says. "Many Asian countries we spoke to like the idea, but it will depend on the structure that is accepted. [Perhaps] it could be under the ASEAN [Association of Southeast Asian Nations] umbrella." He adds that Boeing was in talks with NATO for two years and it took a couple of years to work out the details; he expects it will be similar for Asia.

The requirement in the Asian region is based on major civil disasters like the tsunami, earthquakes and peacekeeping missions.

Duneshaw says the consortium concept is unlikely to work in the Middle East, as the wealthy nations prefer to own their aircraft. The United Arab Emirates has bought six C-17s, while Qatar has purchased two with options for two more.

Qatar has already used its C-17s for humanitarian aid to Haiti, Mongolia and various places in Africa. "The aircraft has 'Qatar' painted across it," Duneshaw says. "They said they wanted the world to know that Qatar is backing the humanitarian aid."

Source

 

[Yatharth Singh]

IAF to Begin Trials of C-17 Globemaster III Aircraft by End of Month


The Indian Air Force (IAF) is likely to begin trials of the Boeing C-17 Globemaster III heavy-lift transport aircraft, of which it intends to purchase 10, by the end of the month, an official said."The trials should last about 10 days," he added of the evaluation process of the aircraft, which has a carrying capacity of 75 tonnes.The trials are likely to be conducted in the same manner as the IAF is evaluating the six combat jets in contention for an order for 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft.This means the C-17, which can take off from unprepared airstrips as short as 3,000 metres, will be put through its paces in the icy heights of Ladakh in Jammu and Kashmir, the deserts of Rajasthan and the humid conditions of south India.

 

[plugwater]

IAF test lands C-17 Globemaster

Indian Air Force (IAF) authorities today test landed C-17 Globemaster Boeing military transport aircraft at the Gaggal civil airport.

According to sources, the large transport aircraft landed at the short strip of Gaggal airport at 11.03 am. Earlier, it had taken off from Agra this morning.

The Gaggal domestic airport strip is just 4,500-ft-long and is fit for landing 50- seater aircraft. Experts of Mc Donnel Douglas Company, that produces C-17 aircraft, displayed its efficiency to land at short air strip like Kangra domestic airport, the sources added.

The IAF had, in June 2009, selected C-17 to fulfil its very heavy transport aircraft requirement.

After the deal is approved by the Indian Defence Ministry, C-17 would replace Illushin 11-76 as the largest heavy lift transport aircraft in service with the IAF. The C-17 has bigger load carrying capacity than the said transport aircraft available with the IAF.

In January this year, the Indian government had requested the US government for sale of 10 C-17 aircraft through the US government's foreign military sales programme. Recently, the US Congress approved the sale of the aircraft to India. However, signing of a formal contract over the matter is still awaited.

C-17 is one of the largest military transport aircraft in the world. It was developed for the US air force by Mc Donnel Douglas company.

It is used for rapid strategic airlift of troops and cargo to maintain operating basis and has the ability to rapidly deploy a combat unit to a potential battle area and sustain it with ongoing supplies.

It is also capable of performing tactical airlift, medical evacuation and air drop missions.

If the deal materialises, it would be worth about Rs $2.5 billion, the sources stated.

Meanwhile, military sources in Rising Star Corps command here, when asked, refused to comment on the landing of C-17 aircraft at the Gaggal airport.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2010/20100624/himachal.htm#4

 

[Armand2REP]

$2.5 billion? More like $5 billion. Once FinMin gets the price tag they will tell IAF to go jump.

 

[Rahul Singh]

It will go through every ministry easily for the simple reason that this government is like monkey in the hand of master(USA)...P-8I, C-17, C-130 get the idea..

They are not hesitant to pay cost of 100 IL-76 for buying only 10 C-17s.

 

[nrj]

They are not hesitant to pay cost of 100 IL-76 for buying only 10 C-17s.

Rahul, IL76 and C17 can not be compared like that. C17 is true HTA while IL76 is about 45tons. If cost becomes stagnant factor then deal might be scrapped like the refullers deal was trashed...

 

[RAM]

India readies to evaluate C-17 airlifter


The Boeing C-17 Globemaster-III strategic airlifter is in India to begin flight trials this week towards clearing the last formality from the Indian Air Force (IAF) for its acquisition.
One US Air Force (USAF) aircraft was been flown to India on June 19 for technical checks of the fuselage, seating and engines, as also para-jumping and loading and unloading systems by IAF test pilots.

It will now go through the routine checks of operating in humid, hot and rarefied environments at Bangalore, Jaisalmer and Leh respectively, something which is a fundamental requirement for all IAF combat and transport assets due to the geographical terrain of the country, India Strategic defence magazine reports.

Although the IAF has asked the government for an initial batch of 10 C-17s, confirmation of the aircraft's required capabilities by the test pilots would formally seal the process from the Indian side, and the defence ministry would then give its endorsement and forward a note to the US government.

Washington would follow with the procedural Letter of Acceptance (LOA) in response to New Delhi's Letter of Request (LoR) for the aircraft to be acquired under a government-togovernment Foreign Military Sales (FMS) programme.

This would be India's single biggest defence acquisition agreement with the US ever, estimated in the industry to be between $4-5.8 billion depending on what the IAF requires in terms of onboard assets, capabilities, spares and maintenance support duration.

The deal will be with USAF, and the US government will charge an administrative fee on the actual amount calculated after IAF requirements are finalized.

Col. Kelly Latimer, a former USAF pilot whose laughter matches the respect she commands in flying this huge aircraft, flew in the C-17 to India. A USAF and Boeing team is at hand to explain its capabilities in peacetime for humanitarian missions or to airdrop special forces personnel and material or to pick up the wounded from short, unpaved grassy fields in the thick of battle.

India Strategic quotes Boeing's Vice President for Global Mobility Systems Tommy Dunehew as saying that although it should take about three years to supply the first aircraft after an agreement is signed with a customer, Boeing could deliver all the 10 aircraft within two years.

Every programme has to end somewhere, and as Boeing has only the last 24 aircraft in its order book for the USAF, and another 20 for other countries, it could comfortably juggle with them to meet any IAF requirements.

The USAF has a total of 223 aircraft of order. Its 199th C-17 has just finished pre-delivery flying tests and is on way now to its designated squadron in the USAF Air Mobility Command.

The IAF chief, Air Chief Marshal P.V. Naik, had told India Strategic last year that IAF was looking for 10-plus 10 C-17s, described in its parlance as VHTAC, or Very Heavy Transport Aircraft, as a replacement of its ageing fleet of Soviet vintage

IL-76 transport jets as also to augment its strategic lift capability in the coming years.

Air Marshal Ashok Goel (retd), who had flown in the first IL-76 from the Soviet Union to India in April 1985, says that the acquisition of the C-17, as also that of Lockheed Martin's C 130J Super Hercules are timely.

The IL-76, which had given IAF strategic lift capability, and the smaller AN 32, would last another 10-12 years although as per the manufacturers' specifications, they are at the end of their lives. IAF has not used them fully and there is substantial residual life in them.

Assimilation of new aircraft takes about five years, and by the Sovient vintage aircraft are phased out, the C-17 and the C-130J would be 'in the bloodstream' of IAF pilots.

The C-17 is the lifeline of US and NATO troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and its operational capabilities have already been displayed informally to IAF officers on various occasions, the first in 1998. A C-17 can carry one heavy-lift Chinook or two Apache helicopters after folding their rotor blades, and even one 60-tonne Arjun main battle tank (MBT) of the Indian Army.

http://sify.com/finance/india-readies-to-evaluate-c-17-airlifter-news-default-kgyqOcbdaif.html

 

[ppgj]

$2.5 billion? More like $5 billion. Once FinMin gets the price tag they will tell IAF to go jump.

it sure is not $2.5 billion. way higher than that.

another instance of india's defence journos who have no idea what they write about. manu phubey (IE), rajat pandit (TOI) and many others like them!!! i recall reading one of Rajat Pandit's article where he refers power/weight ratio - as - weight/power ratio!!! and the gullible public is taken for a ride with falsehoods with such unintelligible articles. the fact that these newspapers being "popular" only compounds the ability of the general public to "imbibe" facts and reality!!! there is a need for them to be "well versed" with the topics they write and base those on facts which seems to be at a premium!!!

and unfortunatley knowledgable journos like ajai shukla, shiv aroor, chacko joseph and vishnu som are branded as "sensationalists" and thrashed because they make sense!!! and it is even more unfortunate when people at defence forums (obvious with their higher knowledge in related matters) do that.

well...welcome to India.

 

[mayfair]

I don't care what is included in that deal but paying ~$5 billion for just 10 oversized trash haulers is nothing short of atrocious.

 

[EagleOne]

IAF completes C-17 test-flight

The Indian Air Force (IAF) successfully test-landed a Boeing C-17 Globemaster III strategic transport aircraft at the Gaggal Airport in northern India on 23 June, ahead of acquiring 10 for an estimated USD5.8 billion to augment its strategic reach.

Leased from the US Air Force (USAF), the C-17 successfully touched down at Gaggal's 1317 m-long runway, some 500 km north of New Delhi, IAF officials said.

It had flown there from the IAF transport base at Agra, 200 km east of Delhi, where the C-17s being acquired to replace the IAF's fleet of a dozen-odd Russian-origin Ilushin Il-76 'Gajraj' transporters will eventually be based.

IAF officials told Jane's that the Gaggal landing "completed the C-17 trials" insisted upon by the air force, despite there being no other aircraft competing for the contract.

Air Chief Marshal P V Naik said last year that the IAF selected the C-17 for its ability to ferry 70-ton loads to a distance of 2,400 n miles and use short, even makeshift, runways at high altitudes.

However, negotiations for the aircraft - being acquired via the Foreign Military Sales route - would only begin once US Congress, notified about India's requirement two months ago, approved the sale depending on the configuration the IAF wanted


http://www.janes.com/news/defence/jdw/jdw100705_1_n.shtml

 

[Ray]

Just my point of view and it need not be correct.

With the Chinese being quite aggressive in their assertion as to what is the Line of Actual Control (LAC), there is a requirement to ferry troops and war matériel at short notice to areas of conflict, if the situation comes to that state. It will be appreciated that one cannot station large forces in these remote areas indefinitely or a permanent basis since there will be issues of turn over of troops on an all India basis. As it is the tenures in these and other field areas are becoming longer than before. It affects the morale and family life, which are as it is at it nadir.

There is thus a necessity to have a long haul transporter that is capable of landing/ air dropping a combat force in total readiness to go into operations immediately on landing in one go with all their operational (war) loads.

There being no proper airfields in the areas adjoining the LAC, the transporter has to be able to land on semi prepared runways which will be short.

Any transporter that fits the bill should be taken.

The problems with Russian equipment is that with the fall of the Soviet Union, the factories are all over the erstwhile USSR and to keep the fleet serviceable one has to negotiate with many newly formed countries and that leads to delays or even the parts not being available.