dineshchaturvedi
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsKRfCBxw5Y Nice video to give you the inside.
C-17 Globemaster III (IAF)
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- Start date
nandu
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IAF's acquisition of Boeing C-17 transport aircraft heading for trouble news
13 May 2010 :An Indian Air Force order for 10 Boeing C-17 Globemaster III heavy-lift transport aircraft is looking like an uncertain acquisition with a production-line strike at the Boeing facility where the giant aircraft are built and clear hints from the Pentagon that the programme will soon shut down.
C-17Globemaster III
The C-17 is a long running programme that the Pentagon has been desperately trying to kill off for years without success as US Congressmen, scared of the economic impact of a plant closure on their constituents, keep it alive under some pretext or the other.
1,700 assembly-line workers at the Long Beach, Calif, plant struck work for a second day Wednesday, demanding better pension and medical benefits. Earlier, talks between management and the United Aerospace Workers broke down last week after employees rejected a 46-month contract offer from the company.
On an average Boeing builds around 16 C-17s a year, primarily for the US Air Force, at an average price tag of about $200 million each. Orders, though, have been declining and the company has recently said it would further bring down annual production rate to 10 by mid-2011.
For the US military the aircraft has become a prize lemon being too costly to acquire. In any case the unnecessary additions to the air force fleet have ensured that the USAF fleet is already chock-a-bloc with it. But as has been the political practise, interested Congressmen keep the programme alive by compelling the Pentagon to acquire sufficient numbers each year so that the plants never close down.
The US military, for long, has sought an end for the programme and focus on upgrading its ageing Lockheed Martin Corp C-5 Galaxy fleet which can happen at a fraction of the cost of acquiring the C-17s.
It is also interested in acquiring more C-130J Hercules planes, a proven, though smaller, transport aircraft.
In a speech, delivered Saturday, defence secretary Robert Gates said
"The leadership of the Air Force is clear: They do not need and cannot afford more C-17s," he said. The attempt by the US Congress to keep the programme alive is being done "at an unnecessary potential cost to the taxpayers of billions of dollars over the next few years," Gates said.
Gates has already initiated a wide ranging review of the US military's big-ticket acquisitions. In a desperate bid to balance the massive budget deficit a number of programmes are now facing extinction.
Congress' main concern, on the other hand, is the high-paying jobs the aerospace sector creates.
In line with an across-the-board tightening of the defence budget the US Defense Department seeks to end acquisition of C-17 jets in the proposed 2011 budget. This, say defence analysts, will likely kill the programme.
Boeing has a current backlog of 36 orders for C-17s, of which just seven are for foreign customers. The Indian Air Force has placed an order for ten more.
The impending closure of the programme and the plant raises important questions as to how the IAF will continue to source aircraft parts and services in the long-run as plants shut down and experts associated with the programme retire.
Indeed, as an upcoming power India may look to expanding its fleet of heavy-lift transporters in the future and will find itself with a museum piece collection of ten C-17s as the programme shuts down. It will then go seeking another bunch of heavy transporters from some other nation
Haphazard acquisition of equipment of strategic interest needs to be questioned. The acquisition of an aircraft that has for long been surviving on oxygen is a matter of concern and certainly it is required that the Indian ministry of defence issue a clarification in this regard as the woes of the C-17 programme have been in the public domain for a very long time and yet New Delhi has opted for its acquisition.
The US Air Force has been attempting to end acquisition of the C-17 atleast since 2006.
Boeing's California facility employs about 5,000 people and the unions, sensing that the programme is in the last phase of its existence, are now negotiating higher pay and benefits so as to win better severance packages when the plants finally shut down.
Boeing sold nearly $3 billion worth of C-17s in 2009.
http://www.domain-b.com/defence/air_space/iaf/20100513_boeing_c-17_oneView.html
13 May 2010 :An Indian Air Force order for 10 Boeing C-17 Globemaster III heavy-lift transport aircraft is looking like an uncertain acquisition with a production-line strike at the Boeing facility where the giant aircraft are built and clear hints from the Pentagon that the programme will soon shut down.
C-17Globemaster III
The C-17 is a long running programme that the Pentagon has been desperately trying to kill off for years without success as US Congressmen, scared of the economic impact of a plant closure on their constituents, keep it alive under some pretext or the other.
1,700 assembly-line workers at the Long Beach, Calif, plant struck work for a second day Wednesday, demanding better pension and medical benefits. Earlier, talks between management and the United Aerospace Workers broke down last week after employees rejected a 46-month contract offer from the company.
On an average Boeing builds around 16 C-17s a year, primarily for the US Air Force, at an average price tag of about $200 million each. Orders, though, have been declining and the company has recently said it would further bring down annual production rate to 10 by mid-2011.
For the US military the aircraft has become a prize lemon being too costly to acquire. In any case the unnecessary additions to the air force fleet have ensured that the USAF fleet is already chock-a-bloc with it. But as has been the political practise, interested Congressmen keep the programme alive by compelling the Pentagon to acquire sufficient numbers each year so that the plants never close down.
The US military, for long, has sought an end for the programme and focus on upgrading its ageing Lockheed Martin Corp C-5 Galaxy fleet which can happen at a fraction of the cost of acquiring the C-17s.
It is also interested in acquiring more C-130J Hercules planes, a proven, though smaller, transport aircraft.
In a speech, delivered Saturday, defence secretary Robert Gates said
"The leadership of the Air Force is clear: They do not need and cannot afford more C-17s," he said. The attempt by the US Congress to keep the programme alive is being done "at an unnecessary potential cost to the taxpayers of billions of dollars over the next few years," Gates said.
Gates has already initiated a wide ranging review of the US military's big-ticket acquisitions. In a desperate bid to balance the massive budget deficit a number of programmes are now facing extinction.
Congress' main concern, on the other hand, is the high-paying jobs the aerospace sector creates.
In line with an across-the-board tightening of the defence budget the US Defense Department seeks to end acquisition of C-17 jets in the proposed 2011 budget. This, say defence analysts, will likely kill the programme.
Boeing has a current backlog of 36 orders for C-17s, of which just seven are for foreign customers. The Indian Air Force has placed an order for ten more.
The impending closure of the programme and the plant raises important questions as to how the IAF will continue to source aircraft parts and services in the long-run as plants shut down and experts associated with the programme retire.
Indeed, as an upcoming power India may look to expanding its fleet of heavy-lift transporters in the future and will find itself with a museum piece collection of ten C-17s as the programme shuts down. It will then go seeking another bunch of heavy transporters from some other nation
Haphazard acquisition of equipment of strategic interest needs to be questioned. The acquisition of an aircraft that has for long been surviving on oxygen is a matter of concern and certainly it is required that the Indian ministry of defence issue a clarification in this regard as the woes of the C-17 programme have been in the public domain for a very long time and yet New Delhi has opted for its acquisition.
The US Air Force has been attempting to end acquisition of the C-17 atleast since 2006.
Boeing's California facility employs about 5,000 people and the unions, sensing that the programme is in the last phase of its existence, are now negotiating higher pay and benefits so as to win better severance packages when the plants finally shut down.
Boeing sold nearly $3 billion worth of C-17s in 2009.
http://www.domain-b.com/defence/air_space/iaf/20100513_boeing_c-17_oneView.html
plugwater
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Globemaster will be flown to India for trials in June
The Indian Air Force's quest to acquire a tactical heavy lift transport aircraft from the United States will get under way with user trials scheduled for next month in India.
In the last week of April, the U.S. Department of Defense notified Congress of a letter of request from the Indian government for acquiring 10 of Boeing Globemaster III.
Briefing a group of correspondents at its facility here, company representatives said the aircraft, to be taken on lease from the U.S. Air Force, would be flown to India by June 21.
"Unlike many other countries that have brought these aircraft, the Government of India insists on trials, and we will be there in June," Tommy Dunehew, vice-president, Business Development, Boeing, told The Hindu.
The trials would be one part of a possible $5.8-billion deal, negotiations for which will begin only after Congress approves the sale. The product Boeing offers is the latest Block 18 aircraft, and much will depend on the configuration the IAF will want.
It is for India to decide whether it wants to join the worldwide virtual fleet Boeing has set up with other countries — Australia, Canada, Japan, the United Kingdom, the UAE and the European Union consortium of 12 nations — that have bought these planes.
The IAF plans to base these tactical aircraft at Agra. They can carry 73,616 kg of payload and can be operated by a crew of just three (two in the cockpit and one loadmaster).
Delivery will begin 24 months after the contract is signed. At present, Boeing is producing one plane every three-and-a-half weeks, or up to 15 a year. Its current order book, including some 30-odd pieces for the U.S. Air Force, will run on till 2011. However, should India order these planes, the schedules will be negotiated, Mr. Dunehew said.
It is being deployed for disaster relief operations in various parts of the world. The U.S. Air Force has transported a brigade of men, tonnes of equipment and 400 vehicles over five nights, flying 17 shifts, he said, explaining the ability of the workhorse.
The plane can carry 188 passengers, has reverse thrust engines for short turnaround and equipped with missile warning system with flares to disengage the incoming missiles.
http://beta.thehindu.com/news/article433082.ece
The Indian Air Force's quest to acquire a tactical heavy lift transport aircraft from the United States will get under way with user trials scheduled for next month in India.
In the last week of April, the U.S. Department of Defense notified Congress of a letter of request from the Indian government for acquiring 10 of Boeing Globemaster III.
Briefing a group of correspondents at its facility here, company representatives said the aircraft, to be taken on lease from the U.S. Air Force, would be flown to India by June 21.
"Unlike many other countries that have brought these aircraft, the Government of India insists on trials, and we will be there in June," Tommy Dunehew, vice-president, Business Development, Boeing, told The Hindu.
The trials would be one part of a possible $5.8-billion deal, negotiations for which will begin only after Congress approves the sale. The product Boeing offers is the latest Block 18 aircraft, and much will depend on the configuration the IAF will want.
It is for India to decide whether it wants to join the worldwide virtual fleet Boeing has set up with other countries — Australia, Canada, Japan, the United Kingdom, the UAE and the European Union consortium of 12 nations — that have bought these planes.
The IAF plans to base these tactical aircraft at Agra. They can carry 73,616 kg of payload and can be operated by a crew of just three (two in the cockpit and one loadmaster).
Delivery will begin 24 months after the contract is signed. At present, Boeing is producing one plane every three-and-a-half weeks, or up to 15 a year. Its current order book, including some 30-odd pieces for the U.S. Air Force, will run on till 2011. However, should India order these planes, the schedules will be negotiated, Mr. Dunehew said.
It is being deployed for disaster relief operations in various parts of the world. The U.S. Air Force has transported a brigade of men, tonnes of equipment and 400 vehicles over five nights, flying 17 shifts, he said, explaining the ability of the workhorse.
The plane can carry 188 passengers, has reverse thrust engines for short turnaround and equipped with missile warning system with flares to disengage the incoming missiles.
http://beta.thehindu.com/news/article433082.ece
Why should India squander taxpayers moneyto keep 5000 Boeing jobs alive by buying 10 C-17s-80 Tonnes payload..India can buy 25 IL76MFs -60Tonne payload & 15 AN-124s- 150 Tonnes payload'AT NEARLY 60% OF 5.6 $ BILLION DEAL
SEE THE PAYLOADS OF AN124 & IL76MF
WE CAN GET THE WORLD'S BIGGEST MILTARY TRANSPORTATION
AFTER THE USAF-AT MUCH LESSER PRICE
SEE THE PAYLOADS OF AN124 & IL76MF
WE CAN GET THE WORLD'S BIGGEST MILTARY TRANSPORTATION
AFTER THE USAF-AT MUCH LESSER PRICE
pavanvenkatesh
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But i feel this deal is worth every penny we spent comparing it with the russian AN124 & IL 76MF it has a lot of features which these a/c do not have like unlike these russian planes the C-17 can be flown by just two pilots it can practicaly land anywhere on any ground it does not need any special airstrip moreover for its size it can takeoff and land in small strips of land while carrying about 40 tons of weight so we should not worry about these little problems boing will fix them
AN 124 can do everything what C-17 can do ,yes An-124 needs crew of 4 but with upgrade it can be brought down to 3 member crew and even C-17 needs crew of 3 and not 2 , An-124 is also capable to do short take off and landing
nrj
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Boeing to provide lifetime spares and maintenance support for India's C-17s
In response to a questionnaire, Brian J. Nelson, head of International Communications – India, Boeing Defense Space & Security, said "India will have access to everything it needs for its fleet of C-17s. Under the Globemaster Sustainment Parternship, there is lifetime support that includes spares and maintenance".
When queried as to what was the next step in the C-17 Globemaster purchase by India, now that that U.S. Congress has been notified of the possible sale, Nelson said, "the submittal of the Letter of Acceptance to the Government of India is the next step towards finalizing the Foreign Military Sale." The big and expensive C-17 strategic airlift aircraft is capable of carrying up to 170,000 pounds of cargo and land and take off from short airfields. It was selected by India to provide fast response time in disaster relief and anti-terrorist missions among others.
In Boeing's view, the C-17 meets India's key airlift requirements, including: Transportation of troops and heavy equipment including artillery, high altitude air drop in hot temperatures, advanced strategic and tactical capabilities that far exceed the capabilities of other airlifters, paratroop capabilities, logistic support, force projection and strategic reach, field ambulance and disaster relief.
Source
In response to a questionnaire, Brian J. Nelson, head of International Communications – India, Boeing Defense Space & Security, said "India will have access to everything it needs for its fleet of C-17s. Under the Globemaster Sustainment Parternship, there is lifetime support that includes spares and maintenance".
When queried as to what was the next step in the C-17 Globemaster purchase by India, now that that U.S. Congress has been notified of the possible sale, Nelson said, "the submittal of the Letter of Acceptance to the Government of India is the next step towards finalizing the Foreign Military Sale." The big and expensive C-17 strategic airlift aircraft is capable of carrying up to 170,000 pounds of cargo and land and take off from short airfields. It was selected by India to provide fast response time in disaster relief and anti-terrorist missions among others.
In Boeing's view, the C-17 meets India's key airlift requirements, including: Transportation of troops and heavy equipment including artillery, high altitude air drop in hot temperatures, advanced strategic and tactical capabilities that far exceed the capabilities of other airlifters, paratroop capabilities, logistic support, force projection and strategic reach, field ambulance and disaster relief.
Source
Last edited:
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You think they compared it to An-124? Not even... Russians don't have a production line to offer it to India. This was an emergency measure to boost IAF strategic airlift with no other competitors in the market. Problem is, C-17 is going to be cancelled, unions are on strike, and India has no guarantee Boeing can keep its promises. The decision to buy it has not been made yet. Let us just wait and see if India makes the smart choice.
Crusader53
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Narrow view and will be proven wrong when India selects the Super Hornet in the MMRCA. =heheh
Respectfully,
Crusader53
the decision has not been taken and just few days back i talked to one IAF fighter pilot and he said and i quote "eurofighter has the greatest chance to win MMRCA"
Boeing Analysis: Indian Air Force C-17 Order Not at Risk; An-124 Co-production?
Colleagues: This thread is in partial response to the An-124 co-production thread here:
Russia and U.S. Mull Joint Production of An-124 Transport Planes defenceforum in/forum/showthread.php/10411-Russia-and-U.S.-mull-joint-production-of-An-124-transport-planes , But is more expansive on the issue of C-17 continuance and the forces at work attempting to ensure its demise.
It is our intent to bring atypical clarity to this matter for the benefit of DFI members.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Boeing Analysis: Indian Air Force C-17 Order Not at Risk; US DoD Seeking to Limit Boeing Participation In 2011 Budget?
Summary: "The drumbeat of anti-C-17 commentary in US, European, Indian, Pakistani and ME news mediums; a strike at Boeing Long Beach and the observably large leap in logic suggesting platform termination as a result, appear to be part of a well coordinated effort -- again -- to render as self-fulfilling prophecy SECDEF Gates' unfounded insistence on ending production of the world's most successful strategic/tactical airlifter. GHH notes that $60,000,000 ,with TransRecap processes, begets TWO C-17s; one new, one accessible."
"Bloomfield Hills, MI, May 28, 2010 (PressReleasePoint-- UPDATE) -- Global HeavyLift Holdings, LLC, a Defense Logistics Agency (DLA www ccr gov) entity based in Michigan, believes it is appropriate to address, yet again, the continuing attacks, misstatements and outright analytical/factual errors carried by multiple media outlets globally against Boeing C-17. These are largely based on comments by Secretary of Defense Dr. Robert Gates, elements of the USAF, and others demanding an end to its production.
"The drumbeat of anti-C-17 commentary in US, European, Indian, Pakistani and other global news mediums; a strike at Boeing Long Beach by union workers and the observably large leap in logic suggesting the Globemaster III will be terminated as a result, appear to be part of a well coordinated effort -- again -- to render as self-fulfilling prophecy SECDEF Gates' unfounded insistence on ending production of the world's most successful strategic/tactical airlifter.
"While GHH feels the bulk of reportage in certain media outlets commendably takes on a aura of objectivity regarding IAF plans to acquire C-17, that aura, they contend, collapses with pointed and all-caps references in some to the US President and SECDEF's stated desire to kill it; i.e., 'Everyone agrees, except Obama and Gates. Maybe they know something others are not telling us... Why is India buying the C-17 when Barack Obama and Robert Gates want to junk it, asks Shantanu Guha Ray?"
'Since it is somewhat inarguable by virtue of unparalleled mission completion rates (verifiable through the US DoD) that Boeing C-17 is the best airlifter in the history of aviation, and possessed, as articulated by Boeing spokesman Jerry Drelling, of true strategic/tactical duality of mission capability, we'll address with specificity the concern mentioned in several versions of a report "Maybe they (the President and SECDEF) know something others are not telling us."
'"The direct answer is, and with all due respect to the President and Dr. Gates, no, they do not 'know something others are not telling us', says Myron D. Stokes. GHH Managing Member."
....
Antonov Recommendation of An-124 Airlifter Co-production in The US
Stokes also noted the recent announcement by Antonov Aircraft officials, perhaps in collaboration with Volga-Dnepr, suggesting co-production of the Ruslan with a US partner that will allow direct purchase by American operators -- something not possible or permissible up this point despite efforts to change this UKRSPETSEXPORT protocol over the years. "We have been part of the effort to have a permanent certification issued for the An-124 to operate regularly in US airspace, as opposed to the per-mission certificates obtained from the FAA by the operator's Mobile, AL based agent, Stokes said. We have expressed often our appreciation for the efforts of the Ukrainian and Russian governments through their state controlled air cargo operators like Volga-Dnepr, in proving the viability of the heavy and outsized cargo market as a self-sustaining subset of the air cargo market.
"Moreover, our BC-17 business plan calls for a symbiotic relationship with An-124 core operators, and we have directly conveyed this proposed interaction at the highest levels of the Russian government. while at the same time expressing our desire to assist in bringing the Antonov plant at Ulyanovsk, Ukraine, up to full production.
"It is of note that such efforts have existed for a decade, inclusive of very direct involvement in the restoration of braintrust for Russian/Ukrainian aerospace industry engineering and design sectors following the tragic accident of December 2002 that killed 46 senior level engineers, designers and marketing personnel from both Antonov and Tupolev. Specifically, the Ishfahan crash of an An-140 turboprop being co-developed with the Iranian aerospace sector as the Iran-140.".
"Nevertheless, we would caution our Eastern colleagues to not inject themselves into the feeding frenzy designed to terminate C-17 production, since their role in the future of the Heavy and Outsized market is assured", he said.
The full Release/Analysis can be found including update, can be found here:
pressreleasepoint com/boeing-analysis-indian-air-force-c17-order-not-risk-us-dod-seeking-limit-boeing-participation-2011-b
slideshare net/GHHLLC2/ghh-press-release-52510-updated-from-51410docx3
We will update forum members as appropriate...
Colleagues: This thread is in partial response to the An-124 co-production thread here:
Russia and U.S. Mull Joint Production of An-124 Transport Planes defenceforum in/forum/showthread.php/10411-Russia-and-U.S.-mull-joint-production-of-An-124-transport-planes , But is more expansive on the issue of C-17 continuance and the forces at work attempting to ensure its demise.
It is our intent to bring atypical clarity to this matter for the benefit of DFI members.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Boeing Analysis: Indian Air Force C-17 Order Not at Risk; US DoD Seeking to Limit Boeing Participation In 2011 Budget?
Summary: "The drumbeat of anti-C-17 commentary in US, European, Indian, Pakistani and ME news mediums; a strike at Boeing Long Beach and the observably large leap in logic suggesting platform termination as a result, appear to be part of a well coordinated effort -- again -- to render as self-fulfilling prophecy SECDEF Gates' unfounded insistence on ending production of the world's most successful strategic/tactical airlifter. GHH notes that $60,000,000 ,with TransRecap processes, begets TWO C-17s; one new, one accessible."
"Bloomfield Hills, MI, May 28, 2010 (PressReleasePoint-- UPDATE) -- Global HeavyLift Holdings, LLC, a Defense Logistics Agency (DLA www ccr gov) entity based in Michigan, believes it is appropriate to address, yet again, the continuing attacks, misstatements and outright analytical/factual errors carried by multiple media outlets globally against Boeing C-17. These are largely based on comments by Secretary of Defense Dr. Robert Gates, elements of the USAF, and others demanding an end to its production.
"The drumbeat of anti-C-17 commentary in US, European, Indian, Pakistani and other global news mediums; a strike at Boeing Long Beach by union workers and the observably large leap in logic suggesting the Globemaster III will be terminated as a result, appear to be part of a well coordinated effort -- again -- to render as self-fulfilling prophecy SECDEF Gates' unfounded insistence on ending production of the world's most successful strategic/tactical airlifter.
"While GHH feels the bulk of reportage in certain media outlets commendably takes on a aura of objectivity regarding IAF plans to acquire C-17, that aura, they contend, collapses with pointed and all-caps references in some to the US President and SECDEF's stated desire to kill it; i.e., 'Everyone agrees, except Obama and Gates. Maybe they know something others are not telling us... Why is India buying the C-17 when Barack Obama and Robert Gates want to junk it, asks Shantanu Guha Ray?"
'Since it is somewhat inarguable by virtue of unparalleled mission completion rates (verifiable through the US DoD) that Boeing C-17 is the best airlifter in the history of aviation, and possessed, as articulated by Boeing spokesman Jerry Drelling, of true strategic/tactical duality of mission capability, we'll address with specificity the concern mentioned in several versions of a report "Maybe they (the President and SECDEF) know something others are not telling us."
'"The direct answer is, and with all due respect to the President and Dr. Gates, no, they do not 'know something others are not telling us', says Myron D. Stokes. GHH Managing Member."
....
Antonov Recommendation of An-124 Airlifter Co-production in The US
Stokes also noted the recent announcement by Antonov Aircraft officials, perhaps in collaboration with Volga-Dnepr, suggesting co-production of the Ruslan with a US partner that will allow direct purchase by American operators -- something not possible or permissible up this point despite efforts to change this UKRSPETSEXPORT protocol over the years. "We have been part of the effort to have a permanent certification issued for the An-124 to operate regularly in US airspace, as opposed to the per-mission certificates obtained from the FAA by the operator's Mobile, AL based agent, Stokes said. We have expressed often our appreciation for the efforts of the Ukrainian and Russian governments through their state controlled air cargo operators like Volga-Dnepr, in proving the viability of the heavy and outsized cargo market as a self-sustaining subset of the air cargo market.
"Moreover, our BC-17 business plan calls for a symbiotic relationship with An-124 core operators, and we have directly conveyed this proposed interaction at the highest levels of the Russian government. while at the same time expressing our desire to assist in bringing the Antonov plant at Ulyanovsk, Ukraine, up to full production.
"It is of note that such efforts have existed for a decade, inclusive of very direct involvement in the restoration of braintrust for Russian/Ukrainian aerospace industry engineering and design sectors following the tragic accident of December 2002 that killed 46 senior level engineers, designers and marketing personnel from both Antonov and Tupolev. Specifically, the Ishfahan crash of an An-140 turboprop being co-developed with the Iranian aerospace sector as the Iran-140.".
"Nevertheless, we would caution our Eastern colleagues to not inject themselves into the feeding frenzy designed to terminate C-17 production, since their role in the future of the Heavy and Outsized market is assured", he said.
The full Release/Analysis can be found including update, can be found here:
pressreleasepoint com/boeing-analysis-indian-air-force-c17-order-not-risk-us-dod-seeking-limit-boeing-participation-2011-b
slideshare net/GHHLLC2/ghh-press-release-52510-updated-from-51410docx3
We will update forum members as appropriate...
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A $.2.2 billion deal spirals to $5.8 billion? And they justify it with 'price for support and additional equipment"? What do they take us for? A bunch of smokin' quacks?
Reading very contrasting views on India's DPP. On the one hand, India's leading expert on defense procurements and offsets, Maj Gen. (retd.) Mrinal Suman says that the "defence procurement procedure has been a total and abject failure". On the other hand, leading defense and industry experts are saying that the FMS route India has adopted is probably the best, as it cuts down procurement delays and ensures the same price as the U.S.A.F.
The latest news is that C-17 Workers went on strike in Long Beach, throwing the company into even more misery. I'm very keen to know the real reason behind why the Pentagon is jostling with Congress to end the program. It can't be just fulfilled heavy air-lift capacity, as they've been talking about providing a stimulus to other programs like the C-5 retrofit, A 400M and C-130J. There certainly is no issue with the C-17's capabilities. This is the stuff of legends....
Reading very contrasting views on India's DPP. On the one hand, India's leading expert on defense procurements and offsets, Maj Gen. (retd.) Mrinal Suman says that the "defence procurement procedure has been a total and abject failure". On the other hand, leading defense and industry experts are saying that the FMS route India has adopted is probably the best, as it cuts down procurement delays and ensures the same price as the U.S.A.F.
The latest news is that C-17 Workers went on strike in Long Beach, throwing the company into even more misery. I'm very keen to know the real reason behind why the Pentagon is jostling with Congress to end the program. It can't be just fulfilled heavy air-lift capacity, as they've been talking about providing a stimulus to other programs like the C-5 retrofit, A 400M and C-130J. There certainly is no issue with the C-17's capabilities. This is the stuff of legends....
nandu
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$580-million tag for IAF's C-17 aircraft can be cut: Boeing
Operation Cactus in 1988 boosted India's regional stature when Russian-built IL-76 aircraft airlifted hundreds of paratroopers 2,000 km, non-stop, to the Maldives within 12 hours of an SOS from that country's coup-embattled president.
With India's fleet of 24 IL-76 aircraft now obsolescent, planners have decided to buy Boeing's C-17 Globemaster III, widely acknowledged as the world's most versatile military transport aircraft.
The downside: At over half a billion dollars a piece, the Globemaster is also the world's most expensive air-lifter. With criticism rising of India's $5.8 billion (Rs 27,000 crore) purchase of 10 Globemasters, Boeing now says India could actually pay far less.
Responding to a question from Business Standard about the Globemaster's high cost, Vivek Lall, the India chief of Boeing Defence Space & Security (BDS), clarified by email that the $5.8 billion, "is on the higher side of what the actual cost could be"¦. India may not need all the services and items that the US Air Force is offering them. The final cost will be determined by the actual requirements of the Indian Air Force and after negotiations are held."
In accordance with US law, the US Congress (legislature) was notified on April 23 that India wanted to buy 10 C-17 Globemaster III aircraft directly from the US government (under the Foreign Military Sale, or FMS, programme) for an estimated $580 million per aircraft. In contrast, the IL-76 can be bought for less than one-tenth that price: about $50 million per aircraft.
The $580-million tag could become even bigger if India buys secure communications (COMSEC) and Global Positioning System (GPS) navigation aids, by signing two safeguard agreements that US law demands but New Delhi has so far rejected: The Communications Interoperability and Security Memorandum of Agreement and the Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement for Geo-spatial Cooperation. The recent Congress notification indicates that India's C-17s will not be fitted with COMSEC equipment; GPS security devices; and certain "Government Furnished equipment".
Alternatives
Lall indicated that Boeing would provide alternatives to the COMSEC and GPS, but said, "We do not discuss detailed aircraft components, as the deal is a foreign military sale and is between the two governments."
Business Standard has examined requests, placed to the US Congress over several years, for C-17 sales to NATO, Canada, Australia, the UAE and Oman to determine how Boeing's ex-factory price of $200-220 million for each unfitted C-17 Globemaster escalates to $580 million for each of the fully-kitted military aircraft that India is buying.
The data indicate that the basic military aircraft, built at Boeing's Long Beach facility outside Los Angeles, California, costs about $350 million. An additional $150 million per aircraft goes on spare engines, maintenance spares, electronic protection systems, and logistics.
Finally, Boeing's global maintenance network for the C-17 — called the Globemaster III Sustainment Partnership or GSP charges $75 million every three years — i.e. $25 million per year — to ensure each aircraft covered in this plan remains flying, functional and available almost 90 per cent of the time.
Boeing has confirmed that India was joining the GSP and that the notification to the US Congress included that cost.
Largest C-17 user
Once India's planned procurement of 10 Globemaster IIIs is completed, it will be the largest C-17 user outside the US, which operates 198 Globemasters. Other users are the UK (six aircraft); Australia and Canada (four aircraft); Qatar (two aircraft) and NATO (three aircraft).
Operating from short, mud-paved landing strips such as those on India's borders, the C-17 can lift 75-tonne payloads to anywhere in China, Central Asia, the Gulf countries and much of Southeast Asia, without refuelling. Capable of carrying 188 passengers, or 102 fully-kitted paratroopers, Globemasters have brought out as many as 300 refugees at a time during humanitarian missions from disaster zones like Haiti.
The C-17 can also transport a battle-loaded Arjun or T-90 tank, or a Chinook helicopter with its rotors dismantled.
http://www.business-standard.com/in...iaf\s-c-17-aircraft-can-be-cut-boeing/396545/
Operation Cactus in 1988 boosted India's regional stature when Russian-built IL-76 aircraft airlifted hundreds of paratroopers 2,000 km, non-stop, to the Maldives within 12 hours of an SOS from that country's coup-embattled president.
With India's fleet of 24 IL-76 aircraft now obsolescent, planners have decided to buy Boeing's C-17 Globemaster III, widely acknowledged as the world's most versatile military transport aircraft.
The downside: At over half a billion dollars a piece, the Globemaster is also the world's most expensive air-lifter. With criticism rising of India's $5.8 billion (Rs 27,000 crore) purchase of 10 Globemasters, Boeing now says India could actually pay far less.
Responding to a question from Business Standard about the Globemaster's high cost, Vivek Lall, the India chief of Boeing Defence Space & Security (BDS), clarified by email that the $5.8 billion, "is on the higher side of what the actual cost could be"¦. India may not need all the services and items that the US Air Force is offering them. The final cost will be determined by the actual requirements of the Indian Air Force and after negotiations are held."
In accordance with US law, the US Congress (legislature) was notified on April 23 that India wanted to buy 10 C-17 Globemaster III aircraft directly from the US government (under the Foreign Military Sale, or FMS, programme) for an estimated $580 million per aircraft. In contrast, the IL-76 can be bought for less than one-tenth that price: about $50 million per aircraft.
The $580-million tag could become even bigger if India buys secure communications (COMSEC) and Global Positioning System (GPS) navigation aids, by signing two safeguard agreements that US law demands but New Delhi has so far rejected: The Communications Interoperability and Security Memorandum of Agreement and the Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement for Geo-spatial Cooperation. The recent Congress notification indicates that India's C-17s will not be fitted with COMSEC equipment; GPS security devices; and certain "Government Furnished equipment".
Alternatives
Lall indicated that Boeing would provide alternatives to the COMSEC and GPS, but said, "We do not discuss detailed aircraft components, as the deal is a foreign military sale and is between the two governments."
Business Standard has examined requests, placed to the US Congress over several years, for C-17 sales to NATO, Canada, Australia, the UAE and Oman to determine how Boeing's ex-factory price of $200-220 million for each unfitted C-17 Globemaster escalates to $580 million for each of the fully-kitted military aircraft that India is buying.
The data indicate that the basic military aircraft, built at Boeing's Long Beach facility outside Los Angeles, California, costs about $350 million. An additional $150 million per aircraft goes on spare engines, maintenance spares, electronic protection systems, and logistics.
Finally, Boeing's global maintenance network for the C-17 — called the Globemaster III Sustainment Partnership or GSP charges $75 million every three years — i.e. $25 million per year — to ensure each aircraft covered in this plan remains flying, functional and available almost 90 per cent of the time.
Boeing has confirmed that India was joining the GSP and that the notification to the US Congress included that cost.
Largest C-17 user
Once India's planned procurement of 10 Globemaster IIIs is completed, it will be the largest C-17 user outside the US, which operates 198 Globemasters. Other users are the UK (six aircraft); Australia and Canada (four aircraft); Qatar (two aircraft) and NATO (three aircraft).
Operating from short, mud-paved landing strips such as those on India's borders, the C-17 can lift 75-tonne payloads to anywhere in China, Central Asia, the Gulf countries and much of Southeast Asia, without refuelling. Capable of carrying 188 passengers, or 102 fully-kitted paratroopers, Globemasters have brought out as many as 300 refugees at a time during humanitarian missions from disaster zones like Haiti.
The C-17 can also transport a battle-loaded Arjun or T-90 tank, or a Chinook helicopter with its rotors dismantled.
http://www.business-standard.com/in...iaf\s-c-17-aircraft-can-be-cut-boeing/396545/
charan
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I've heard that a c-17 can fly very very low...just a couple of feets away from the ground!!! Is it true? If yes..can An-124 do this?
whats the use of that ? and of the C017 is doing that then it vulnerable to enemy fire
nrj
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The use it to airdrop weapon equipments. Thats edge C17 has on others. And what fool would fly any aircraft (c17 or An124 or Dornier) close down to enemy setups ?
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